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Does God exist? if he did what came before him?
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Memorandum! wrote:
> well, you're saying that we're too complicated to not have been
> created by something greater, but if that thing is 'greater' surely
> it must also be too complicated not to have been created, etc...
>
> Anyways, the flip-side is that if it IS possible that people can
> evolve etc, that it is also possible for an omnipotent being to
> 'appear' (so to speak) and create more stuff.
>
> Both arguments defeat themselves.
> There's no way of knowing who's right anyway, so there's no point in
> discussing it.
...well I think its a great thing to discuss, ok you think your way ill think mine and if you believe that we will never know the answer cool.
But having a relationship with a living God, seeing his works and what he done. Hearing from him and living for him i kinda gonna believe and know he there also think there a great point to discuss...
Ok we'll leave it but i dont think God had to be created... because we were. I don't think because we were created there fore he must be greater and even more complicated.. to be created.
> well, you're saying that we're too complicated to not have been
> created by something greater, but if that thing is 'greater' surely
> it must also be too complicated not to have been created, etc...
>
> Anyways, the flip-side is that if it IS possible that people can
> evolve etc, that it is also possible for an omnipotent being to
> 'appear' (so to speak) and create more stuff.
>
> Both arguments defeat themselves.
> There's no way of knowing who's right anyway, so there's no point in
> discussing it.
...well I think its a great thing to discuss, ok you think your way ill think mine and if you believe that we will never know the answer cool.
But having a relationship with a living God, seeing his works and what he done. Hearing from him and living for him i kinda gonna believe and know he there also think there a great point to discuss...
Ok we'll leave it but i dont think God had to be created... because we were. I don't think because we were created there fore he must be greater and even more complicated.. to be created.
Memorandum! wrote:
> but if the world is too complex to have come out of nowhere, surely
> it's far, far more unlikely that some omnipotent being just popped
> out of nowhere.
>
> anyways, CBA with this argument again.
Soo... One day you're walking along as a plane flies overhead? You're thinking to yourself "Thats pretty cool... Wonder how that got there.. Much more likely to have just created itself from all the pieces than someone making it".
What are the chances of throwing up each of the individual components of a plane into the air and hoping they'll combine by the time they hit the ground? It has seriously more chance than that of if we evolved from one celled organisms.
> but if the world is too complex to have come out of nowhere, surely
> it's far, far more unlikely that some omnipotent being just popped
> out of nowhere.
>
> anyways, CBA with this argument again.
Soo... One day you're walking along as a plane flies overhead? You're thinking to yourself "Thats pretty cool... Wonder how that got there.. Much more likely to have just created itself from all the pieces than someone making it".
What are the chances of throwing up each of the individual components of a plane into the air and hoping they'll combine by the time they hit the ground? It has seriously more chance than that of if we evolved from one celled organisms.
I think also God is more complex that an omnipitent being floating around in a black space ready for the world.
well, you're saying that we're too complicated to not have been created by something greater, but if that thing is 'greater' surely it must also be too complicated not to have been created, etc...
Anyways, the flip-side is that if it IS possible that people can evolve etc, that it is also possible for an omnipotent being to 'appear' (so to speak) and create more stuff.
Both arguments defeat themselves.
There's no way of knowing who's right anyway, so there's no point in discussing it.
Anyways, the flip-side is that if it IS possible that people can evolve etc, that it is also possible for an omnipotent being to 'appear' (so to speak) and create more stuff.
Both arguments defeat themselves.
There's no way of knowing who's right anyway, so there's no point in discussing it.
Memorandum! wrote:
> but if the world is too complex to have come out of nowhere, surely
> it's far, far more unlikely that some omnipotent being just popped
> out of nowhere.
>
> anyways, CBA with this argument again.
...Why is it more un likely?
what is no where or 'anywhere' we are only in anywhere as we are in the world that was started and will one day die..
> but if the world is too complex to have come out of nowhere, surely
> it's far, far more unlikely that some omnipotent being just popped
> out of nowhere.
>
> anyways, CBA with this argument again.
...Why is it more un likely?
what is no where or 'anywhere' we are only in anywhere as we are in the world that was started and will one day die..
but if the world is too complex to have come out of nowhere, surely it's far, far more unlikely that some omnipotent being just popped out of nowhere.
anyways, CBA with this argument again.
anyways, CBA with this argument again.
Does God Exist? If he does then what came before him?
...
Well, I used to doubt whether a God existed. I also thought if he does then why is there pain and so forth. Something happened that made me realise God does exist - he does listen and we can have a relationship with him.
Firstly - I think and can see now how there must be a creator for the world. The way the world is so uniquely balanced, living almost? It has its own cycle re creating all the time. We humans ... look how we work. Break down us and see how the tiniest detail has been put into us. From dying cells that re produce to the functions of our organs to our senses and above all of this - our feelings and emotions and position on Earth.
Ok we could be said to be animals still, we have bodies were fleshy organs covered in goo protected by boney bits and skin.. but whats more to us? Why are we different from animals? Why is it that we are the rulers of this earth. No animal comes anywhere close to ruling or being like us I think we have been made this way. By God - I think the idea of us just being a slightly different more intelligent animal is quite.. well it just doesnt click for me.
Have you ever seen someone die? I have. Even a pet? When we die something changes. Ok, we stop breathing but something goes. We are no longer the same. The body is stil there but wheres the person gone? Something more than the stop of electrons buzzing around happens I think.
The accuracy of us, the world - I heard today that no two snow flakes are the same. They have a uniquely different structure. How amazing. Why?
Genesis 1 says 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth' -
I believe God exists. I believe this because I know him and have a relationship with him. But I think that when we look at the way we are .. after all we are made in the image of God we ask human questions (which is natural and gonna happen) But if we were created by the creator... if this world has a beginning and an end because God made it like that. Before the world was God... but I do not think there was anything before - he is the creator after all
My opinion.. part of it :) anyways :)
...
Well, I used to doubt whether a God existed. I also thought if he does then why is there pain and so forth. Something happened that made me realise God does exist - he does listen and we can have a relationship with him.
Firstly - I think and can see now how there must be a creator for the world. The way the world is so uniquely balanced, living almost? It has its own cycle re creating all the time. We humans ... look how we work. Break down us and see how the tiniest detail has been put into us. From dying cells that re produce to the functions of our organs to our senses and above all of this - our feelings and emotions and position on Earth.
Ok we could be said to be animals still, we have bodies were fleshy organs covered in goo protected by boney bits and skin.. but whats more to us? Why are we different from animals? Why is it that we are the rulers of this earth. No animal comes anywhere close to ruling or being like us I think we have been made this way. By God - I think the idea of us just being a slightly different more intelligent animal is quite.. well it just doesnt click for me.
Have you ever seen someone die? I have. Even a pet? When we die something changes. Ok, we stop breathing but something goes. We are no longer the same. The body is stil there but wheres the person gone? Something more than the stop of electrons buzzing around happens I think.
The accuracy of us, the world - I heard today that no two snow flakes are the same. They have a uniquely different structure. How amazing. Why?
Genesis 1 says 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth' -
I believe God exists. I believe this because I know him and have a relationship with him. But I think that when we look at the way we are .. after all we are made in the image of God we ask human questions (which is natural and gonna happen) But if we were created by the creator... if this world has a beginning and an end because God made it like that. Before the world was God... but I do not think there was anything before - he is the creator after all
My opinion.. part of it :) anyways :)
I am a Christian.. I'm not going to try and persuade you either way, but here's my opinion on everything.
First things first. If there is no God, what is the point of life? Why are we here? Some complete accident. That's all you are. You have no feelings, because you weren't created. You were just some chemicals that mixed together in a certain way. It just happened to produce something that was self aware by complete chance.
Soo.. if we're all here by chance, why does life matter? I mean, I could go round killing everyone and since no one is sacred, and everyone is just some wierd accident, then surely it doesn't matter? Heck, why even mourn? They're probably better off.
Everyone has given themselves a God. Everyone worships something. For some people it's football. For others it's money. Others still go for sex. I personally have found the only thing that fills that space of emptiness where you feel incomplete. Like something is missing. Like.. if this is all to this life, then I might as TRY and make it have a point.
All these arguments about suffering. Why would god allow september the eleventh? Why earthquakes? Tsunamis? Killing sprees? Well.. according to the people, this is actually all our fault. Before "the fall" (if you're the kind that likes to read, Genesis 1-3) everything was good and we were "very good". However, we had to go and completly mess this up. Free will is a valuable, yet dangerous gift. Without it, we couldn't truelly love God. With it, we have the ability to create/do the most beautiful and at the same time, the most hideously ugly things/actions.
I don't really wanna get too deep or depressive on this forum, but if any of you wanna talk to me about this any further, you can e-mail me at [email protected]
First things first. If there is no God, what is the point of life? Why are we here? Some complete accident. That's all you are. You have no feelings, because you weren't created. You were just some chemicals that mixed together in a certain way. It just happened to produce something that was self aware by complete chance.
Soo.. if we're all here by chance, why does life matter? I mean, I could go round killing everyone and since no one is sacred, and everyone is just some wierd accident, then surely it doesn't matter? Heck, why even mourn? They're probably better off.
Everyone has given themselves a God. Everyone worships something. For some people it's football. For others it's money. Others still go for sex. I personally have found the only thing that fills that space of emptiness where you feel incomplete. Like something is missing. Like.. if this is all to this life, then I might as TRY and make it have a point.
All these arguments about suffering. Why would god allow september the eleventh? Why earthquakes? Tsunamis? Killing sprees? Well.. according to the people, this is actually all our fault. Before "the fall" (if you're the kind that likes to read, Genesis 1-3) everything was good and we were "very good". However, we had to go and completly mess this up. Free will is a valuable, yet dangerous gift. Without it, we couldn't truelly love God. With it, we have the ability to create/do the most beautiful and at the same time, the most hideously ugly things/actions.
I don't really wanna get too deep or depressive on this forum, but if any of you wanna talk to me about this any further, you can e-mail me at [email protected]
Yes, there is God. You can believe of him in any form you desire, or not. He (because "He" is the dominant gender reference in the Bible and through time, for the most part) is so glorious that he'd even give you that free will to decide how to perceive him. He is everywhere and everything, even the bad. Even Satan must go through him.
When I wonder how catastrophic events can happen in our world, or even to me personally, under his hand, I remember that he has given me a mission to live this life and do it in the most productive, successful way until the very end. Survival. No matter the circumstance, you can rise or fall. He wants you to rise and learn and move on to the next level, the next pinnacle of existence.
I wonder how he could allow certain people in my life. I am only human, too.
After so much of survival, there is a realm where instead of incessantly questioning why and rebelling, there is simply accepting the perceived failures of this life as His will...we move on. Or you can get stuck in it, overwhelmed in the muckiness of your fall. Your soul pays. Time moves on.
As I reflect on the years, I find the pressures and pain, even the happiest of times, too, were all lessons. They make me stronger for the next encounter, which is bound to occur so long as I'm alive. They make me.
There are global lessons of humanity in the tsunami catastrophe. The 9/11 catastrophe was manmade and therefore, confirmation that evil is present amongst us. There is much apathy, ignorance, and injustice. Yet, there are many who are trying to make a differnce for the betterment of our global community, as well, even in the smallest attempts. This is mine, in this very minute. Thanks for reading.
When I wonder how catastrophic events can happen in our world, or even to me personally, under his hand, I remember that he has given me a mission to live this life and do it in the most productive, successful way until the very end. Survival. No matter the circumstance, you can rise or fall. He wants you to rise and learn and move on to the next level, the next pinnacle of existence.
I wonder how he could allow certain people in my life. I am only human, too.
After so much of survival, there is a realm where instead of incessantly questioning why and rebelling, there is simply accepting the perceived failures of this life as His will...we move on. Or you can get stuck in it, overwhelmed in the muckiness of your fall. Your soul pays. Time moves on.
As I reflect on the years, I find the pressures and pain, even the happiest of times, too, were all lessons. They make me stronger for the next encounter, which is bound to occur so long as I'm alive. They make me.
There are global lessons of humanity in the tsunami catastrophe. The 9/11 catastrophe was manmade and therefore, confirmation that evil is present amongst us. There is much apathy, ignorance, and injustice. Yet, there are many who are trying to make a differnce for the betterment of our global community, as well, even in the smallest attempts. This is mine, in this very minute. Thanks for reading.
Yes I exist. Before I was P@st@, but my account has been smoted.
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