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Well, after a long wait, the rabbi I emailed has responded. I'll include both my initial question and his response. I look forward to seeing Forest Fan either refuse to respond to this thread, or simply claim that the Rabbi is wrong and that he knows more about Judaism than any mere Holy Man does...
You Asked:
I'm currently engaged in a theological debate with someone who claims to be a "Jewish Christian". I believe that it is impossible to be both Jewish and Christian, although he is certainly a Semetic Christian. Am I right in saying this? Is he part of a ropey evangelical cult, or is it possible to belong to both faiths simultaneously?
Thanks in advance.
Rabbi Wiko Answered:
Dear Stuart,
Since Christianity speaks of G-D in human form (Jesus) it is as opposite as anything can ever be to what Judaism teaches us. Therefore, it can not be that one person can be both. To accept Christianity is to deny Judaism. Period, end of topic.
I don't know to which group of "thinkers" he belongs, nor is it important....he isn't Jewish and should not proport himself as being Jewish. Christianity is a fine religion...all religions, when lived properly are fine.
There are many semites in the world. Most of them are not Jewish.
Shalom,
Rabbi Dan Wiko
You Asked:
I'm currently engaged in a theological debate with someone who claims to be a "Jewish Christian". I believe that it is impossible to be both Jewish and Christian, although he is certainly a Semetic Christian. Am I right in saying this? Is he part of a ropey evangelical cult, or is it possible to belong to both faiths simultaneously?
Thanks in advance.
Rabbi Wiko Answered:
Dear Stuart,
Since Christianity speaks of G-D in human form (Jesus) it is as opposite as anything can ever be to what Judaism teaches us. Therefore, it can not be that one person can be both. To accept Christianity is to deny Judaism. Period, end of topic.
I don't know to which group of "thinkers" he belongs, nor is it important....he isn't Jewish and should not proport himself as being Jewish. Christianity is a fine religion...all religions, when lived properly are fine.
There are many semites in the world. Most of them are not Jewish.
Shalom,
Rabbi Dan Wiko
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Light wrote:
> Okay; who wants to bet that Forest will regard this as the Rabbi
> backing down and admitting that all Jews regard Jesus as the Messiah?
£25.
> Okay; who wants to bet that Forest will regard this as the Rabbi
> backing down and admitting that all Jews regard Jesus as the Messiah?
£25.
Another response from Rabbi Wiko...
Rabbi Wiko Answered:
Dear Stuart,
Those of us who live by Torah and Halacha believe with FAITH that what is written is what it is...the New Testament, written by men and, at that. considerably, later than Torah, is, at best, an addendum and comes with a point of view that did not precede it's writing.
If your friend wants to convince himself that you can be both Jewish and believe that Jesus is moshiach, allow him the right to think as he pleases and allow him to, possibly, have to face the consequenses of his beliefs sometime down the road. You can never convince the disbeliever nor do you ever need to convince a person of faith.
Shalom,
Rabbi Dan Wiko
...or to put it another way "Ignore the deranged little faecal fountain; the consequence of his madness is that he's mad, and he has to live with it".
Okay; who wants to bet that Forest will regard this as the Rabbi backing down and admitting that all Jews regard Jesus as the Messiah?
Rabbi Wiko Answered:
Dear Stuart,
Those of us who live by Torah and Halacha believe with FAITH that what is written is what it is...the New Testament, written by men and, at that. considerably, later than Torah, is, at best, an addendum and comes with a point of view that did not precede it's writing.
If your friend wants to convince himself that you can be both Jewish and believe that Jesus is moshiach, allow him the right to think as he pleases and allow him to, possibly, have to face the consequenses of his beliefs sometime down the road. You can never convince the disbeliever nor do you ever need to convince a person of faith.
Shalom,
Rabbi Dan Wiko
...or to put it another way "Ignore the deranged little faecal fountain; the consequence of his madness is that he's mad, and he has to live with it".
Okay; who wants to bet that Forest will regard this as the Rabbi backing down and admitting that all Jews regard Jesus as the Messiah?
The thing is, this whole cross between Jewish and Christianity is sort of a nice idea. All Forest Fan REALLY has to accept that his person belief is great, but it is not THE way, it is A way.
And that everyone else' beliefs are just as valid...
Then it doesn't matter what Rabbi's and Priests say, because you'll be allowed to be a Christian and a Jew YOUR way (providing you HAVE had the snip! ;-D).
And that everyone else' beliefs are just as valid...
Then it doesn't matter what Rabbi's and Priests say, because you'll be allowed to be a Christian and a Jew YOUR way (providing you HAVE had the snip! ;-D).
Genius. I can't believe how, after all this hard evidence, FF still has the audacity to go up against a Rabbi? Haha.
I'd like to see this settled in a televised debate.
And by 'settled' I mean a dozen highly qualified people tell FF he is wrong, and then if he still refuses to accept it he is crucified.
And by 'settled' I mean a dozen highly qualified people tell FF he is wrong, and then if he still refuses to accept it he is crucified.
Just bend over FF and take your medicine like the deluded little troll you are.
I had you pinned from post one when I laughed in your acne-face and told you that you were not only lying, but probably smelt of 3-day old semen and Wotsits.
You're getting owned so badly you should come with a warranty.
Merry Xmas and schnizzle my dizzle
I had you pinned from post one when I laughed in your acne-face and told you that you were not only lying, but probably smelt of 3-day old semen and Wotsits.
You're getting owned so badly you should come with a warranty.
Merry Xmas and schnizzle my dizzle
Light wrote:
> An initial answer from a busy rabbi...
>
> Rabbi Freeman Epstein answered:
>
>
> To Jews, Isaiah 7:14 does not predict the coming of Jesus. The word
> virgin is translated as young woman, and is not in any context that
> we believe could be interpreted as predicting the Messiah.
>
I was watching the 3 kings story on telly last night, interesting it was to. I don't know if it was Isaiah 7:14 or not; but it did mention in a book they were on about(don't know the name) that someone did predict that the Messiah was coming by the stars, dont know the name of the person but his name began with Z. It was also going on about the date of Jesu's birth saying it was as much as 6 or 7 years off, there theory came about in how the planets of Jupiter and Saturn came in conjuction with each other thus looking like a gigantic star which the wise men followed and that happened 7 years bc. This was also a sign in ancient times that the coming together of theese planets is a sign of a new King taking over.
> An initial answer from a busy rabbi...
>
> Rabbi Freeman Epstein answered:
>
>
> To Jews, Isaiah 7:14 does not predict the coming of Jesus. The word
> virgin is translated as young woman, and is not in any context that
> we believe could be interpreted as predicting the Messiah.
>
I was watching the 3 kings story on telly last night, interesting it was to. I don't know if it was Isaiah 7:14 or not; but it did mention in a book they were on about(don't know the name) that someone did predict that the Messiah was coming by the stars, dont know the name of the person but his name began with Z. It was also going on about the date of Jesu's birth saying it was as much as 6 or 7 years off, there theory came about in how the planets of Jupiter and Saturn came in conjuction with each other thus looking like a gigantic star which the wise men followed and that happened 7 years bc. This was also a sign in ancient times that the coming together of theese planets is a sign of a new King taking over.
Forest Fan wrote:
>
> If that was the case, which is isn't, what is the miracle the
> Scriptures is talking about (which the Rabbi would share) in the
> birth of the Messiah??
You see, what you're doing there is assuming that your wacky version of Judaism (members worldwide: 1) is more valid than actual Judaism (Members worldwide: A few million).
Oh, and I notice you haven't bothered to respond to my last post in response to you. What's up Forest; is your self-made faith unravelling before your eyes?
This is perhaps the most fun one can have at Xmas. Okay then; you're always so keen on others providing Biblical evidence. And here we have a Rabbi stating, quite clearly, that one of the two pieces of Biblical evidence you've supplied is categorically not about Jesus. You're saying it is. She has the weight of experience, and the fact that as a Rabbi she does know a thing or two about Judaism. On your side, you have the fact that you're a friendless 14 year old who wants to feel special.
Anyway, the miracle that 7:14 is talking about is the coming of the Messiah. Jews, and Judaism, don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Which is why it's impossible to be a Jewish Christian. So, with that in mind; merry Xmas Forest. Have fun going insane as you try to keep proving to yourself that you're the only real Jew on the planet.
[edit] A little info about the rabbi that Forest claims is so mistaken about Judaism...
Rabbi Epstein is a Reconstructionist Rabbi, serving a Reconstructionist congregation in Duxbury, MA. She received her B. A . from Yeshiva University, another B.A. from Boston Hebrew College, an M.A. and Ph.D. from the University of CT. She was ordained in 1995 by Rabbi Seymour Zahn, in Hartford, CT. Rabbi Epstein spent the 1995-6 academic year as a postdoctoral student at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.
>
> If that was the case, which is isn't, what is the miracle the
> Scriptures is talking about (which the Rabbi would share) in the
> birth of the Messiah??
You see, what you're doing there is assuming that your wacky version of Judaism (members worldwide: 1) is more valid than actual Judaism (Members worldwide: A few million).
Oh, and I notice you haven't bothered to respond to my last post in response to you. What's up Forest; is your self-made faith unravelling before your eyes?
This is perhaps the most fun one can have at Xmas. Okay then; you're always so keen on others providing Biblical evidence. And here we have a Rabbi stating, quite clearly, that one of the two pieces of Biblical evidence you've supplied is categorically not about Jesus. You're saying it is. She has the weight of experience, and the fact that as a Rabbi she does know a thing or two about Judaism. On your side, you have the fact that you're a friendless 14 year old who wants to feel special.
Anyway, the miracle that 7:14 is talking about is the coming of the Messiah. Jews, and Judaism, don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Which is why it's impossible to be a Jewish Christian. So, with that in mind; merry Xmas Forest. Have fun going insane as you try to keep proving to yourself that you're the only real Jew on the planet.
[edit] A little info about the rabbi that Forest claims is so mistaken about Judaism...
Rabbi Epstein is a Reconstructionist Rabbi, serving a Reconstructionist congregation in Duxbury, MA. She received her B. A . from Yeshiva University, another B.A. from Boston Hebrew College, an M.A. and Ph.D. from the University of CT. She was ordained in 1995 by Rabbi Seymour Zahn, in Hartford, CT. Rabbi Epstein spent the 1995-6 academic year as a postdoctoral student at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.
Forest Fan wrote:
> If that was the case, which is isn't
DARE YOU GO AGAINST THE WORD OF THE GOOD RABBI?!
I thought I'd seen it all with you, FF. But you're reaching a new level of arrogance with every post you make.
> If that was the case, which is isn't
DARE YOU GO AGAINST THE WORD OF THE GOOD RABBI?!
I thought I'd seen it all with you, FF. But you're reaching a new level of arrogance with every post you make.
Light wrote:
> An initial answer from a busy rabbi...
>
> Rabbi Freeman Epstein answered:
>
>
> To Jews, Isaiah 7:14 does not predict the coming of Jesus. The word
> virgin is translated as young woman, and is not in any context that
> we believe could be interpreted as predicting the Messiah.
If that was the case, which is isn't, what is the miracle the Scriptures is talking about (which the Rabbi would share) in the birth of the Messiah??
> An initial answer from a busy rabbi...
>
> Rabbi Freeman Epstein answered:
>
>
> To Jews, Isaiah 7:14 does not predict the coming of Jesus. The word
> virgin is translated as young woman, and is not in any context that
> we believe could be interpreted as predicting the Messiah.
If that was the case, which is isn't, what is the miracle the Scriptures is talking about (which the Rabbi would share) in the birth of the Messiah??
Page: