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I'm going to have to use frames on my next job. The company it's for approved (and paid a stupid amount of money for, not to me) some artwork, and the only way it can be done exactly as they want it is with frames. Should be OK, as long as no-one uses Netscape...
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Timmargh wrote:
> Tyla wrote:
> All tags have to be lowercase
>
> Tut tut, Tyla - it's "element".
>
> ;^)
lol...
Back in the day... it used to be TAG!! Long live old skool coding!!!
> Tyla wrote:
> All tags have to be lowercase
>
> Tut tut, Tyla - it's "element".
>
> ;^)
lol...
Back in the day... it used to be TAG!! Long live old skool coding!!!
Garin wrote:
> I notice alot of anti-frames sentiment here...
> I have a question though,
>
> How do you do accomplish something like
> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/ without frames? Keeping in
> mind I've no interesting in downloading 400-500k everytime I click a
> link. Similar thing with MSDN, I don't see how you could have them
> operate without frames?
Both of those are aimed at a specific market where you can include requirements for access. The Java one can be done in CSS very quickly, the main page is only 1403bytes so no issue on file size either.
As for MSDN, it's desiged by M$ for MS users and therefore uses a lot of MS propriatory code. Again, they know the target audience and assume your using IE to access MSDN.
In general, anything open to full public domain shouldn't be using frames now wether FRAMESET or iFRAME.
> I notice alot of anti-frames sentiment here...
> I have a question though,
>
> How do you do accomplish something like
> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/ without frames? Keeping in
> mind I've no interesting in downloading 400-500k everytime I click a
> link. Similar thing with MSDN, I don't see how you could have them
> operate without frames?
Both of those are aimed at a specific market where you can include requirements for access. The Java one can be done in CSS very quickly, the main page is only 1403bytes so no issue on file size either.
As for MSDN, it's desiged by M$ for MS users and therefore uses a lot of MS propriatory code. Again, they know the target audience and assume your using IE to access MSDN.
In general, anything open to full public domain shouldn't be using frames now wether FRAMESET or iFRAME.
Tyla wrote:
> All tags have to be lowercase
Tut tut, Tyla - it's "element".
;^)
> All tags have to be lowercase
Tut tut, Tyla - it's "element".
;^)
I notice alot of anti-frames sentiment here...
I have a question though,
How do you do accomplish something like http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/ without frames? Keeping in mind I've no interesting in downloading 400-500k everytime I click a link. Similar thing with MSDN, I don't see how you could have them operate without frames?
I have a question though,
How do you do accomplish something like http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/ without frames? Keeping in mind I've no interesting in downloading 400-500k everytime I click a link. Similar thing with MSDN, I don't see how you could have them operate without frames?
Afternoon wrote:
> HTML is being updated to xhtml so there is still life in the old
> technology yet
xHTML is HTML just with XML styled mark-up. HTML isn't dead yet, but xHTML is totally backwards compatible with all versions of HTML from 1 - 4.01 and provides better support for CSS. It's just a cse of having to know how to code correctly by following somple rules such as:
All attributes have to be lowercase
All tags have to be lowercase
All javascript in lowercase (OnLoad = onload etc)
everything has to have a close tag
tag have to be nested in the right order
Simple really... It's supposed to reduce the ammount of shoddy code out there and generate a coding standard like anyother language/mark up
On the other hand, xHTML 2.0 is totally new and not backwards compatible making life quite interesting if and when it ever surfaces as an approved standard.
There's a few interesting changes in 2.0. IMG has been dropped in favour of OBJECT, styling attributes have been dropped such as middle, center etc. MENU has been added and after all that you should just be left with H P Lists and tables (joke) And finally... no FONT!!!! yay!!!
The aim of 2 is to make it mark up only removing all style to CSS and integrating it tighter to XML.
> HTML is being updated to xhtml so there is still life in the old
> technology yet
xHTML is HTML just with XML styled mark-up. HTML isn't dead yet, but xHTML is totally backwards compatible with all versions of HTML from 1 - 4.01 and provides better support for CSS. It's just a cse of having to know how to code correctly by following somple rules such as:
All attributes have to be lowercase
All tags have to be lowercase
All javascript in lowercase (OnLoad = onload etc)
everything has to have a close tag
tag have to be nested in the right order
Simple really... It's supposed to reduce the ammount of shoddy code out there and generate a coding standard like anyother language/mark up
On the other hand, xHTML 2.0 is totally new and not backwards compatible making life quite interesting if and when it ever surfaces as an approved standard.
There's a few interesting changes in 2.0. IMG has been dropped in favour of OBJECT, styling attributes have been dropped such as middle, center etc. MENU has been added and after all that you should just be left with H P Lists and tables (joke) And finally... no FONT!!!! yay!!!
The aim of 2 is to make it mark up only removing all style to CSS and integrating it tighter to XML.
Tyla wrote:
> iFrames have the same problems as frames with regards to indexing and
> accessibility and a twice as difficult to style.
Not unless the content is inputted into the iframe instead of selecting a source
HTML is being updated to xhtml so there is still life in the old technology yet
> iFrames have the same problems as frames with regards to indexing and
> accessibility and a twice as difficult to style.
Not unless the content is inputted into the iframe instead of selecting a source
HTML is being updated to xhtml so there is still life in the old technology yet
:-(
I was rather proud when I taught myself how to use frames all those years ago back in school, when everyone was trying to remember the colour hexes.
I take it HTML in its entirety is outdated then?
I was rather proud when I taught myself how to use frames all those years ago back in school, when everyone was trying to remember the colour hexes.
I take it HTML in its entirety is outdated then?
Mav wrote:
> What's wrong with frames?
>
> I think they're quite impressive.
I think they're quite evil! Nothing you cant do with a little PHP/ASP, an include tag and a styled DIV.
iFrames have the same problems as frames with regards to indexing and accessibility and a twice as difficult to style.
Just realised, I've never used an iFrame in the 8 years I've been doing this and haven't built a site in frames since 1998! Not bad.
> What's wrong with frames?
>
> I think they're quite impressive.
I think they're quite evil! Nothing you cant do with a little PHP/ASP, an include tag and a styled DIV.
iFrames have the same problems as frames with regards to indexing and accessibility and a twice as difficult to style.
Just realised, I've never used an iFrame in the 8 years I've been doing this and haven't built a site in frames since 1998! Not bad.
Quick search, as I don't have time to explain.
"Do not use frames
Framesets structures have been used for long. They provided a convenient way to spare bandwidth in the early times of the Internet. They were also practical for dynamic languages as PHP (Learn it, Use it, Love it ;-) were not far-flung.
They should not be used any more for they are :
Outdated : CSS provide features to structure a page in the same way. Just set the selector "overflow:scroll" on a positionned
"Do not use frames
Framesets structures have been used for long. They provided a convenient way to spare bandwidth in the early times of the Internet. They were also practical for dynamic languages as PHP (Learn it, Use it, Love it ;-) were not far-flung.
They should not be used any more for they are :
Outdated : CSS provide features to structure a page in the same way. Just set the selector "overflow:scroll" on a positionned
tag. Five years ago, I would have coded this site with three frames, but it was five years ago.
Nearly deprecated.As disabled people can't access to a framed structure as a whole, but frame after frame, the W3C, through the WAI stated that frame should be avoided. However, if you really need to use frames, please limitate them to three. Above, a disabled person just can't recall the relationships between frames.
Unreadable by the robots of the search engines. You will have to create a fake, unreadable to humans to have your framed pages indexed.
Frames can also be used for unspeakable reasons, as for simulating margins. Laziness, lack of skill, unawareness, wont ? I have never encountered a frame structure that could not be avoided."
Nearly deprecated.As disabled people can't access to a framed structure as a whole, but frame after frame, the W3C, through the WAI stated that frame should be avoided. However, if you really need to use frames, please limitate them to three. Above, a disabled person just can't recall the relationships between frames.
Unreadable by the robots of the search engines. You will have to create a fake, unreadable to humans
Frames can also be used for unspeakable reasons, as for simulating margins. Laziness, lack of skill, unawareness, wont ? I have never encountered a frame structure that could not be avoided."
Although I'm admittedly no expert in web design.
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