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"USA - A lot Like Nazi Germany?"

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Wed 04/02/04 at 20:36
Regular
"Peace Respect Punk"
Posts: 8,069
Comparing the USA to Nazi Germany may seem ridiculous to you at first. I mean, I don't live in America, but I know there's no Gestapo there. No rounding up of Jews to be murdered. No children forced to join politicised scout groups where they learn their first allegiance is to their dictator.

So lets start at the beginning. Mr. Bush is now the leader of the USA. How did that happen? Well, it turns out he didn't actually win the presidential election. But he's still in power. In Germany, Hitler did try to stage a coup to seize power, but it failed. When he eventually did take power, he actually did it democratically. So now we have the two in the same place. Both Hitler and Bush in power. But neither have total control over their country. In Germany, the Reichstag (German Parliament) is burnt down. Hitler, seeing this as a chance to seize total control, demands he be given emergency powers to ensure further terrorist acts are not carried out. The Nazi's blamed communists for the fire, but some historians now suspect the Nazi's torched the Reichstag themselves to get Hitler his emergency powers, which would lead to him obtaining total control over the country. Remind you of anything? September 11th? Now obviously they aren't the same, but there are similarities. Hitler used an act of terrorism so he no longer had to consult parliament on decisions. Bush used an act of terrorism so he no longer had to explain himself to his voters. His excuse to so many issues has been September 11th.

At present, the USA is in a state of fear and mindless nationalism. Everyday people are warned of terrorist threats. Everyday people are confronted with the stars and stripes, 'freedom' fries and an 'us and them' mentality. If you don't support the ruling party, you are a terrorist supporter. The Nazis used similar tactics. They scared people with propaganda against communists, Jews, blacks, any minority that didn't fit in with Hitler's 'master race'. Opposition parties were banned, people were indoctrinated to worship Hitler, if you didn't support all Nazi actions you were a communist or Jew-lover.

But just in case all this didn't work, the Nazis had the secret police or 'Gestapo'. They could spy on people and take anyone away at any time for questioning. They were essentially above the law, and anyone in their hands essentially had no rights. But surely there's nothing like this in America? I wouldn't hold your breath. Under the new Patriot Act in the USA, the government may intercept confidential E-mails, take a peek at bank and school records, and even records of purchases that have been made. Government agents are even allowed to enter and search homes and never tell the occupants they have paid a visit. These may not seem anything too intrusive, after all they'll only be used on suspected terrorists right? Well, no. Because the Patriot Act means agents simply get secret warrants from a secret court. So in effect no one knows what evidence is produced to justify prying into peoples lives. Further, Mr Bush seems to think he has the right to label anyone an 'enemy combatant', meaning the Bush Administration will not acknowledge they have any human rights. At least the Gestapo couldn't electronically pull up the private records of any German they wanted to.

But the Gestapo were there to reinforce Hitler's power, not to protect the country from terrorism. After all, isn't the Patriot Act there to protect people? Well that's what Bush would say isn't it, but if we dig a little deeper it seems there are cases where it's not being used appropriately. A college student has been visited and told to hand over anti-American material. It was an anti-death penalty poster. A teacher was removed from his class when the feds paid a visit to photograph one of his students' art projects that showed Mr. Bush with duct tape over his mouth. A final example is a Green Party Activist being detained and not allowed to fly because it was deemed Green Party members were potential terrorists. So the new Patriot Act has already harassed students for expressing themselves freely, and has stopped a member of an opposition party from travelling. Way to fight terrorism.

The final comparison I'm going to make is that of concentration camps. There are no concentration camps in the USA though. The Nazis locked up anyone they didn't like (Jews, blacks, suspected homosexuals, anyone who spoke out against them) in concentration camps. Many people were murdered in gas chambers, died of starvation or were killed trying to escape. And while it's true Bush hasn't done anything as horrific as this, America does have it's own special camp for people it wants to put away without a fair trial (or any trial for that matter). But as I said before, it's not actually in the USA. America finally found something Cuba was good for, namely holding hundreds of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. They have no rights, they have not been charged with anything, and all this flies in the face of international laws. There are even children under sixteen incarcerated indefinitely there. So while the USA has no concentration camps, it still manages to lock people up without proving them guilty of any crime, with little or no hope of release.

So far in this article America and Germany have been under the microscope. So now it's time to examine the other countries. When Hitler started breaking points set out in the Treaty of Versailles (the treaty Germany was forced to sign after World War 1), Great Britain, which was still a major power in Europe and worldwide, ignored it. It was felt that once Hitler had reversed the harsh restrictions placed on Germany by Versailles, he would stop being so aggressive. He was appeased. But he wanted a German empire, he wanted his vision of the 'master race' imposed on the world. The more he walked over the international community, the more they moved back and gave in. Finally, Hitler invaded Poland and it was decided enough was enough. World War 2 was the result. Bush is using September 11th as an excuse to invade countries. At first he invaded Afghanistan. Fair enough, get rid of Osama who planned the attacks that killed thousands of Americans, most people probably thought. But then came Iraq. Bush used the state of fear in America to gain support for the war. He then ignored the wishes of the international community and went ahead with his own war against Iraq, dragging us Brit's into it as well, because our own Mr. Blair didn't want to jeopardize our 'special relationship' with the USA. The moral of the Nazi Germany case is that appeasing an aggressive ruler doesn't work. If they think they can get away with something, they'll keep doing it. You have to stand up and make it clear you're not going to take that kind of s*** from them.

The so-called "Land of the Free" has a worrying number of similarities to a certain Fascist Regime. Thankfully there is still a process for Americans to throw their dictator out. Lets just hope Bush doesn't hijack democracy a second time.



Much of the information about the current state of America taken from 'Dude, Where's My Country' by Michael Moore. Go read it.
Nazi Germany information based on stuff I learnt from taking GCSE history. Looks like school's good for something.

I wrote this for my website a few days back, thought some people here might be interested... The whole article (which includes some pictures) can be found at http://www.unitepunk.co.uk/features/fascistamerica.htm
Thu 05/02/04 at 13:59
Regular
"I ush!"
Posts: 922
>
> Much of the information about the current state of America taken from
> 'Dude, Where's My Country' by Michael Moore. Go read it.
> Nazi Germany information based on stuff I learnt from taking GCSE
> history. Looks like school's good for something.
>

Oh, a well researched, evenly balanced article then ?!?
Thu 05/02/04 at 13:38
Regular
"50 BLM,30 SMN,25 RD"
Posts: 2,299
That's all a bit tangential to the discussion though isn't it. I'm sure if North Korea decided to invade another country it would be bad, but thankfully they do not have George W. Bush running their country.. so it's unlikely to happen.
Thu 05/02/04 at 12:52
Regular
"Stay Frosty"
Posts: 742
Belldandy wrote:
> You mean North Korea? This would be the same North Korea whom the US
> General in charge of US forces in that area admitted in an interview
> last year that even the combined forces of the US and South Korea
> would not be able to halt a North Korean invasion for longer than 12
> hours? Thought so.

Well, before those 12 hours, i'm sure somebody would spot a huge military build up. Plus, even if nobody spots it, if the border troops can hold them for 12 hours, i'm sure it will take the US less than that to get some Cruise missiles that way, or even some B1's and B52'S. The seige at Khe San(sp?) showed that an advance can be halted by carpet bombing.
Thu 05/02/04 at 11:48
Regular
"Gundammmmm!"
Posts: 2,339
You mean North Korea? This would be the same North Korea whom the US General in charge of US forces in that area admitted in an interview last year that even the combined forces of the US and South Korea would not be able to halt a North Korean invasion for longer than 12 hours? Thought so.
Thu 05/02/04 at 10:09
Regular
"50 BLM,30 SMN,25 RD"
Posts: 2,299
(of course the big difference between Hitler and Bush is that Hitler used intelligence and charm to get people believing his way was the right way, whereas Bush can hardly string a sentence together)
Thu 05/02/04 at 10:07
Regular
"50 BLM,30 SMN,25 RD"
Posts: 2,299
About a year and a half ago I read a discussion between a German citizen and an American which said very similar things. The USA today has the same overblown sense of importance and self-justification that Germany had pre-WW2. The early signs of a megalomaniac are there in Bush, but I think this time the world is too clued up to let it get too far. If the Iraq war had gone unopposed and unquestioned, then he might have invaded Korea or Syria by now, but he won't get away with it.
Thu 05/02/04 at 09:53
Regular
"Gundammmmm!"
Posts: 2,339
If these are your conclusions then I'd suggest you don't do history at A Level...
Wed 04/02/04 at 21:19
Regular
"SOUP!"
Posts: 13,017
:-)
Wed 04/02/04 at 20:36
Regular
"Peace Respect Punk"
Posts: 8,069
Comparing the USA to Nazi Germany may seem ridiculous to you at first. I mean, I don't live in America, but I know there's no Gestapo there. No rounding up of Jews to be murdered. No children forced to join politicised scout groups where they learn their first allegiance is to their dictator.

So lets start at the beginning. Mr. Bush is now the leader of the USA. How did that happen? Well, it turns out he didn't actually win the presidential election. But he's still in power. In Germany, Hitler did try to stage a coup to seize power, but it failed. When he eventually did take power, he actually did it democratically. So now we have the two in the same place. Both Hitler and Bush in power. But neither have total control over their country. In Germany, the Reichstag (German Parliament) is burnt down. Hitler, seeing this as a chance to seize total control, demands he be given emergency powers to ensure further terrorist acts are not carried out. The Nazi's blamed communists for the fire, but some historians now suspect the Nazi's torched the Reichstag themselves to get Hitler his emergency powers, which would lead to him obtaining total control over the country. Remind you of anything? September 11th? Now obviously they aren't the same, but there are similarities. Hitler used an act of terrorism so he no longer had to consult parliament on decisions. Bush used an act of terrorism so he no longer had to explain himself to his voters. His excuse to so many issues has been September 11th.

At present, the USA is in a state of fear and mindless nationalism. Everyday people are warned of terrorist threats. Everyday people are confronted with the stars and stripes, 'freedom' fries and an 'us and them' mentality. If you don't support the ruling party, you are a terrorist supporter. The Nazis used similar tactics. They scared people with propaganda against communists, Jews, blacks, any minority that didn't fit in with Hitler's 'master race'. Opposition parties were banned, people were indoctrinated to worship Hitler, if you didn't support all Nazi actions you were a communist or Jew-lover.

But just in case all this didn't work, the Nazis had the secret police or 'Gestapo'. They could spy on people and take anyone away at any time for questioning. They were essentially above the law, and anyone in their hands essentially had no rights. But surely there's nothing like this in America? I wouldn't hold your breath. Under the new Patriot Act in the USA, the government may intercept confidential E-mails, take a peek at bank and school records, and even records of purchases that have been made. Government agents are even allowed to enter and search homes and never tell the occupants they have paid a visit. These may not seem anything too intrusive, after all they'll only be used on suspected terrorists right? Well, no. Because the Patriot Act means agents simply get secret warrants from a secret court. So in effect no one knows what evidence is produced to justify prying into peoples lives. Further, Mr Bush seems to think he has the right to label anyone an 'enemy combatant', meaning the Bush Administration will not acknowledge they have any human rights. At least the Gestapo couldn't electronically pull up the private records of any German they wanted to.

But the Gestapo were there to reinforce Hitler's power, not to protect the country from terrorism. After all, isn't the Patriot Act there to protect people? Well that's what Bush would say isn't it, but if we dig a little deeper it seems there are cases where it's not being used appropriately. A college student has been visited and told to hand over anti-American material. It was an anti-death penalty poster. A teacher was removed from his class when the feds paid a visit to photograph one of his students' art projects that showed Mr. Bush with duct tape over his mouth. A final example is a Green Party Activist being detained and not allowed to fly because it was deemed Green Party members were potential terrorists. So the new Patriot Act has already harassed students for expressing themselves freely, and has stopped a member of an opposition party from travelling. Way to fight terrorism.

The final comparison I'm going to make is that of concentration camps. There are no concentration camps in the USA though. The Nazis locked up anyone they didn't like (Jews, blacks, suspected homosexuals, anyone who spoke out against them) in concentration camps. Many people were murdered in gas chambers, died of starvation or were killed trying to escape. And while it's true Bush hasn't done anything as horrific as this, America does have it's own special camp for people it wants to put away without a fair trial (or any trial for that matter). But as I said before, it's not actually in the USA. America finally found something Cuba was good for, namely holding hundreds of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. They have no rights, they have not been charged with anything, and all this flies in the face of international laws. There are even children under sixteen incarcerated indefinitely there. So while the USA has no concentration camps, it still manages to lock people up without proving them guilty of any crime, with little or no hope of release.

So far in this article America and Germany have been under the microscope. So now it's time to examine the other countries. When Hitler started breaking points set out in the Treaty of Versailles (the treaty Germany was forced to sign after World War 1), Great Britain, which was still a major power in Europe and worldwide, ignored it. It was felt that once Hitler had reversed the harsh restrictions placed on Germany by Versailles, he would stop being so aggressive. He was appeased. But he wanted a German empire, he wanted his vision of the 'master race' imposed on the world. The more he walked over the international community, the more they moved back and gave in. Finally, Hitler invaded Poland and it was decided enough was enough. World War 2 was the result. Bush is using September 11th as an excuse to invade countries. At first he invaded Afghanistan. Fair enough, get rid of Osama who planned the attacks that killed thousands of Americans, most people probably thought. But then came Iraq. Bush used the state of fear in America to gain support for the war. He then ignored the wishes of the international community and went ahead with his own war against Iraq, dragging us Brit's into it as well, because our own Mr. Blair didn't want to jeopardize our 'special relationship' with the USA. The moral of the Nazi Germany case is that appeasing an aggressive ruler doesn't work. If they think they can get away with something, they'll keep doing it. You have to stand up and make it clear you're not going to take that kind of s*** from them.

The so-called "Land of the Free" has a worrying number of similarities to a certain Fascist Regime. Thankfully there is still a process for Americans to throw their dictator out. Lets just hope Bush doesn't hijack democracy a second time.



Much of the information about the current state of America taken from 'Dude, Where's My Country' by Michael Moore. Go read it.
Nazi Germany information based on stuff I learnt from taking GCSE history. Looks like school's good for something.

I wrote this for my website a few days back, thought some people here might be interested... The whole article (which includes some pictures) can be found at http://www.unitepunk.co.uk/features/fascistamerica.htm

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