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Have you heard about the recent case of a woman having an abortion because she found out that the child would have had a cleft palate and lip?
It's caused something of an uproar because the abortion took place after the 24th week of pregnancy, something that is illegal under the 1967 Abortion Act - unless it is proven that the child will have a serious disability.
A cleft palate and lip is not a serious disability. I know a woman that had a child with a cleft palate. The child had a few operations, and now you'd never know the difference.
Given that this is sometihng that can be corrected with surgery, and it's hardly a new operation, it's hard to see the justification for having the child aborted.
With new technology coming in the field of ultrasounds, parents will be able to see their children in even more detail than before, long before they're ever born. So if we don't like the look of them, or if we think that they might need an operation or two when they're young, can we just get rid of them...? Surely not.
The other question it raises, is whether good looks are now that important in this fickle world, that anyone with any disfigurement is at a serious disadvantage.
Any thoughts?
It's caused something of an uproar because the abortion took place after the 24th week of pregnancy, something that is illegal under the 1967 Abortion Act - unless it is proven that the child will have a serious disability.
A cleft palate and lip is not a serious disability. I know a woman that had a child with a cleft palate. The child had a few operations, and now you'd never know the difference.
Given that this is sometihng that can be corrected with surgery, and it's hardly a new operation, it's hard to see the justification for having the child aborted.
With new technology coming in the field of ultrasounds, parents will be able to see their children in even more detail than before, long before they're ever born. So if we don't like the look of them, or if we think that they might need an operation or two when they're young, can we just get rid of them...? Surely not.
The other question it raises, is whether good looks are now that important in this fickle world, that anyone with any disfigurement is at a serious disadvantage.
Any thoughts?
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I feel there is nothing wrong with an abortion if say a women has become pregnant and thinks she cannot offer the child a good quality of life.
Hmm.
Putting the time period for the abortion aside, I don't know whether it's so bad to abort for the 'wrong' reasons.
I mean, if it's okay to abort because you don't want a baby, is it that bad to be picky about *which* baby you do have?
I mean, assuming you can't really treat the foetus in question as a human life anyway, killing it seems no worse than any other abortion...
I figure it's understandable for a mother to want her child to have the best life, with as few problems as possible.
Then onto the time issue.. I can't say that it's wrong to kill something that's been in your body for 23 weeks, but not 24.
I guess there has to be a limit somewhere. But we're deciding whether something is treated as a living human, and well, I guess we don't really know. So I have no big moral objection there.
Putting the time period for the abortion aside, I don't know whether it's so bad to abort for the 'wrong' reasons.
I mean, if it's okay to abort because you don't want a baby, is it that bad to be picky about *which* baby you do have?
I mean, assuming you can't really treat the foetus in question as a human life anyway, killing it seems no worse than any other abortion...
I figure it's understandable for a mother to want her child to have the best life, with as few problems as possible.
Then onto the time issue.. I can't say that it's wrong to kill something that's been in your body for 23 weeks, but not 24.
I guess there has to be a limit somewhere. But we're deciding whether something is treated as a living human, and well, I guess we don't really know. So I have no big moral objection there.
actually, maybe you should
*runs, quite fast*
*runs, quite fast*
you shouldn't talk about vanessa felts like that
Timmargh wrote:
> HálloHowArtThou wrote:
> Is it just me or is that woman that is fighting the case VERY good
> looking?
>
> It's just you.
I find the woman patronising: "look at me I had a cleft lip and now I'm a woman of God and a stunner too!"
It's akin to some fat ugly bint losing 10 stone and saying "look at me I'm really skinnky now, loads of bloke want to take me up the chuffer!"
No, you were fat and ugly, now you're skinny and ugly.
Big deal love.
> HálloHowArtThou wrote:
> Is it just me or is that woman that is fighting the case VERY good
> looking?
>
> It's just you.
I find the woman patronising: "look at me I had a cleft lip and now I'm a woman of God and a stunner too!"
It's akin to some fat ugly bint losing 10 stone and saying "look at me I'm really skinnky now, loads of bloke want to take me up the chuffer!"
No, you were fat and ugly, now you're skinny and ugly.
Big deal love.
Timmargh wrote:
> HálloHowArtThou wrote:
> Is it just me or is that woman that is fighting the case VERY good
> looking?
>
> It's just you.
I find the woman patronising: "look at me I had a cleft lip and now I'm a woman of God and a stunner too!"
It's akin to some fat ugly bint losing 10 stone and saying "look at me I'm really skinnky now, loads of bloke want to take me up the chuffer!"
No, you were fat and ugly, now you're skinny and ugly.
Big deal love.
> HálloHowArtThou wrote:
> Is it just me or is that woman that is fighting the case VERY good
> looking?
>
> It's just you.
I find the woman patronising: "look at me I had a cleft lip and now I'm a woman of God and a stunner too!"
It's akin to some fat ugly bint losing 10 stone and saying "look at me I'm really skinnky now, loads of bloke want to take me up the chuffer!"
No, you were fat and ugly, now you're skinny and ugly.
Big deal love.
HálloHowArtThou wrote:
> Is it just me or is that woman that is fighting the case VERY good
> looking?
It's just you.
> Is it just me or is that woman that is fighting the case VERY good
> looking?
It's just you.
I saw a documentary on cleft-lip babies last week I think (seeing this thread, I assume it was shown due to the publicity of this case), and it seems that cleft lip disabilities aren't quite as dismissable as some people have mentioned. Sure, surgery is available, but not without leaving scars, and the disability doesn't completely disappear.
In the natural world, these babies would die very young as they are unable to feed from their mother's breasts. Just a side point there.
Also worth noting, there were a couple of clefties in my high school many moons ago, both were ritualistically mocked and bullied by all and sundry because of their looks and subsequent speech impediments. I'm happy to report that I never mocked them myself, but I was among the minority.
From all reports, bullying in school is worse now than it ever has been, and I wouldn't want to send my child to school knowing that there is a 100% chance that they will be universally shunned and laughed at, or even randomly beaten.
At the end of the day, we can sneer all we like about the decision,but until you're the pregnant woman lying on her back having an ultrasound, being told that your child will be damaged, you'll never understand the thought processes that lead her to such decisions.
In the natural world, these babies would die very young as they are unable to feed from their mother's breasts. Just a side point there.
Also worth noting, there were a couple of clefties in my high school many moons ago, both were ritualistically mocked and bullied by all and sundry because of their looks and subsequent speech impediments. I'm happy to report that I never mocked them myself, but I was among the minority.
From all reports, bullying in school is worse now than it ever has been, and I wouldn't want to send my child to school knowing that there is a 100% chance that they will be universally shunned and laughed at, or even randomly beaten.
At the end of the day, we can sneer all we like about the decision,but until you're the pregnant woman lying on her back having an ultrasound, being told that your child will be damaged, you'll never understand the thought processes that lead her to such decisions.
That is the only reason this is getting so much attention, and that's why it's despicable.
Is it just me or is that woman that is fighting the case VERY good looking?
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