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"Traditions"

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Sun 30/11/03 at 16:05
Regular
"SOUP!"
Posts: 13,017
In a society where originality is something most people press for, why do we stick to old traditions?

We are a generation of people where it is ‘cool’ to be atheists and not give two hoots about following rules and suchlike. But those same ‘bad ass’ atheists will sit around on Christmas morning with their families and open presents. With Christmas day being the birth of Jesus, isn’t it a little hypocritical for atheists, people who believe religion is a load of rubbish, to still celebrate the occasion. It is the equivalent of a Manchester United fan celebration Tottenham beating Brighton. But atheists still will celebrate Christmas, probably get chocolate eggs at Easter and get married in a church. Why? Not because they are religious but because it is traditional.

Tradition seems to override pretty much everything and people will follow it to the bitter end. Think of major traditions that effect your life. On the 5th November we have bonfires and set off rocket into the sky. This is all because a revolutionary tried to blow up the king. Most people, regardless of how the movement would have affected their own lives, will attend bonfires and cheer as a newspaper-centred dummy is torched.

Christmas is a prime example of a tradition. I know people who are Hindu’s, Sikhs, Mormons and Muslims, and all of them get presents on Christmas day. Not because they are celebrating the birth of Jesus, or even necessarily believe in him, but we are a selfish species and find it hard to turn down gifts in the name of faith. Gifts are a physical thing, faith is not. People will have you believe material good cannot bring happiness – but they have a lot of opposition I am sure.

Pretty much everyone I know celebrates on New Years Eve. Why? It is just a day that happens to be at the end of the year. Nothing significant happened there but without fail ever year we will go out and get smashed and make a resolution that we will break within the hour. We sing ‘Auld Lang Sein’ without the faintest idea as to what it means, but somehow we all know the words. Perhaps some bloke called ‘Lang Sein’ invented New Year. I am typing this in Microsoft word and the term “new year” is auto-changed to “New Year” as if there is some sort of importance about it.

We celebrate Halloween for perhaps a poorer excuse, it is pagan belief that the dead rise on this occasion, and so what do we do? We dress our kids up in costumes and send them round to the neighbours to get free sweets. I would say that people believed this was stupid, but no, when my little sister went trick or treating (where the term itself comes from it a mystery) she brought home a wheelbarrow full of sweets. People stick carved pumpkins on their doorsteps and cobwebs in their windows and jolly novelty-shop owners roll in cash and laugh at us for buying silly misshapen plastic thingies.

Valentines day is another commercialised tradition and the shops are filled with soppy cards and fluffy bears holding oversized hearts that you are meant to give to those you fancy in hope they will be besotted with your trend following and marry you. This is a ‘saint’s’ day, which means absolutely nothing. There wasn’t really a St Valentine, nor is there a fat little cherub who shoots people with a bow and arrow. Valentines day is another silly tradition to help blundering idiots try and be romantic.

There are other saints days, St Georges day is a load of rubbish, but it seems that people don’t really do anything except act slightly more patriotic and put up a union jack for a day. What’s the point in celebrating a fictional bloke who killed a fictional dragon? It was probably, in reality, a drunken man fighting a lizard. St Patrick’s day is another chance for the Irish to get drunk and hit things whilst celebrating a man who also got drunk and punched things. The other saint’s day run along similar lines and are equally rubbish.

So why do we stick rigidly to these age-old traditions? There is no real reason or motive to do so; it is just something we, by large majority at least, are driven to do. I’m not going to implore you to beat the corporate system and boycott traditions, just to see if anyone shares my view. Killjoy; me?
Mon 01/12/03 at 13:50
Regular
"Pouch Ape"
Posts: 14,499
I'm actually toying with the idea of not buying presents for anyone this year, because:

a) All the "it's a religious holiday" stuff. I'm not Christian, Church of England, Catholic, or have any sort of religious leanings, so why should I celebrate it? I don't celebrate Passover, or Ramadan. Every year my parents ask me the same question - "What do you want for Christmas?" - and every year they get the same response: "Nothing.". Neither of my parents are religious, but they grew up in a time when tradition went hand-in-hand with religion. To them it's one and the same, somehow becoming taken for granted that everyone is Christian, or Church of England. They even sent me to a sodding Christian school to try and drill it into me, but all it did was make me cynical (and bitter - see "sodding Christian school").

I like celebrating the new year - for me that's the big annual event, because it marks the end of some events and the beginning of others. sure it's measured on the Christian calender, but it's more meaningful to me than the birth of a child that may or may not have existed, over 2000 years ago. It's just a logical and sensible way to record time and dates. I think this attitude shocks my parents. They're total conformists. Not stupid (far from it!), but they can't see beyond the ideals and principals that were drummed into them after the Second World War. They were a product of the "baby boom", brought up to respect their elders because they fought in the war, eat what they're given because it's all they have, go along with tradition because one day it might not be there. There's some of this in me, because it was the way I was brought up by them, but I've slowly grown to accommodate their way of life and my "new-fangled" ideas on how to live.

It's only in recent generations that the old concepts of how we live have changed. It's more common for people to take a different religion now than it was 50 years ago. As the older generations pass, the newer ones are more tolerant of changing attitudes in respect to religion, race and sexuality. Not that we live in a more tolerant age. Lots of minorities have to resort to "disempowerment-empowerment" to survive in the more blinkered of communities, but asides from a few trouble spots, on the whole things have improved and society is much more aware of racial and religious tensions that exist because of it.

But just because I'm aware and tolerant of other people's religious holidays, that doesn't give me the right to celebrate them. I can imagine some "pure" Christians taking offence to non-Christains celebrating one of their sacred holidays. That's fair enough, because technically they're right! It would be hypocritical of me to become a Christian for that one particular day, and then throw aside all the rules and responsibilities that come with it the next. So that's why I'm not going to pretend to be something I'm not, and I'll leave Christmas to those that should be celebrating it - the Christians.


Oh, and:

b) I'm a pikey student.
Mon 01/12/03 at 13:08
Regular
"Wanking Mong"
Posts: 4,884
Archive essay....




So then, the holiest days of the Christian calendar have once more come and gone. For yes, though it is Christmas that gets all the good press, Easter is the big kid on the block when it comes to sacred days. What a pity it is then that, as a festival, it's about as closely related to the death and resurrection of Christ as Michael Barrymore is to Margaret Thatcher. If anybody out there, anybody at all, can explain to me exactly where in the Bible one can find references to a giant bunny rabbit delivering chocolate eggs to children on or around the crucifixion of Christ then I will of course change my tune. But one may as well celebrate Easter by singing "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" as it is just as relevant to Christianity as the current imagery used.

Okay, so perhaps I'm being a little unfair. After all, no one can watch TV for more than an hour over Easter Weekend without seeing some program concerning the story of Jesus. The fact that everybody under the age of 50 switches over to whatever 'Easter Blockbuster' that they've probably already seen on cable or video at least 4 times shows the level of interest that we have in that particular story. So we all tune out of the religious propaganda that the BBC are contractually obliged to provide. Instead we are left with one or two images. Easter eggs for example. Since I was old enough to realise how marvellous chocolate was I've associated Easter with chocolate eggs and indigestion. To be honest, I can just about see a case for associating this with Christianity. After all, Jesus died and was reborn and the egg could symbolise his rebirth. Yes, I know; I'm pushing belief pretty far, but I suppose one should try to be generous.

This generosity stops there however, especially when we consider the other image that is most commonly associated with Easter; the bunny. This does seem to be more of an American thing, but it's fairly well known throughout the Christian world. And it comes from....where exactly? Did I miss a psalm somewhere? Lo, did the multitude of bunnies gather on the hill of Golgotha and provide warmth and comfort to the lord with their furry frames? Erm, no. Not exactly.

Have a little think about what rabbits usually get associated with. No, not carrots and lettuce; screwing. The phrase is, I believe, "To f**k like rabbits". Is this some sort of nod to Mary Magdalene being of questionable morality before encountering the resurrected form of Christ? Nope; the early church was quite stunningly prudish (and still is in many respects); can you imagine them deliberately including a representative of Randy Pan the Goatboy? The Easter Bunny is only there at all because the festival has been stolen almost in it's entirety. The days get longer at this time of year. The temperatures rise (although not much if you live where I do...), the mood generally lifts. Oh, and people are far more inclined to get one another into bed. As human nature isn't the most changeable of things, it doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to see that what we are celebrating is a pre-Christian festival.

The Easter Bunny and the cavalcade of chocolate eggs represent fertility, both for the people and for the land (because Spring is the time of sowing and a good harvest quite literally meant the difference between life and death; where do you think the autumnal harvest festival, so beloved of the local school and parish church, originated from? It was to thank the earth for providing for them and in memory of this, school kids raid their cupboards for canned food to be sent to the church for a display. And none of them really understand why this is. I know I never did...). Christianity isn't exactly big on celebrating fertility of any kind so I'm satisfied that these images had nothing to do with them. So why are they still around? How did relics of the pagan era survive?

Probably because we want them too. We seem to have a hard time as a race letting go of traditions, beliefs, and rituals. Look, for example, at Tower Bridge and the Crown Jewels. The Ceremony of the Keys has been repeated nightly for 700 years. Why exactly? The Sword that belongs to the Commander of the Tower is encrusted with thousands of gems and holds ceremonial significance during a coronation. Yet we're a civilised and God-fearing nation; why the hell should we bother with ancient ceremonies or put stock in the use of a particular item to complete them? We like our little rituals, and Christianity (to it's credit) recognised and utilised this.

It's no accident that Easter falls at the same time as a pagan fertility festival, nor that we have an equally pagan harvest festival to give thanks for the food we receive. Christmas was bolted onto the Roman festival of Saturnalia, even All Hallows Eve has sod all to do with the gentleman who was nailed to the planks of wood (it's an old festival called Samhain and it is most decidedly un-Christian...). Christianity took all of these existing dates in the pagan calendar and simply altered the emphasis of the festival. Hence the jollity and gift-giving of Saturnalia continued, only it was done in the name of Jesus' birth rather than a marking of the year gone by. The sinister tones of Samhain became the faux frights of Halloween. It all boils down to this; same s**t, different God. So next time some humourless cleric makes public declamations of how commerce has displaced the holiness of the various festivals, do as I do and shout loudly at the TV/Newspaper/The cleric himself that his precious festival had sod all to do with God or Jesus. All that is happening is that the festivals are returning to their roots.
Mon 01/12/03 at 10:14
"Darkness, always"
Posts: 9,603
Christmas is nothing to do with religion. It's absolute hypocrisy in my opinion for any Christian to suddenly, at the same time every year, remember that they have a God to worship, a Jesus to thank and a Heaven to pray for, and then spend the next 364 days conveniently going about their business without reference to any of the above.

Bloody part-time christians. Either do it, or don't do it, just don't sit in the middle being religious when it's convenient.
Mon 01/12/03 at 10:02
Moderator
"possibly impossible"
Posts: 24,985
I agree with what most of you say about Christmas, that it is a time for family. However, I do celebrate it as a Christian as well, perhaps not in the same way that say Cliff Richard might do (!) but I do think it's important for me to remember the religious aspect. Of course, a lot of people are not religious, which is fine, and they celebrate it for many other reasons.

With so much emphasis in the media on Christmas (television programmes, cartoons, newspapers carying free CDs of carols etc) it would be very hard to ignore it, and why do so? It's geared towards having fun and enjoying a time of year which to all extents should be gloomy, dark and wet. Without Christmas, winter would be far less fun.

Easter is another one of those celebrations which started out as a pagan festival and has been used as the date of a Christian one in its place. In fact, Easter is far more important to Christians than Christmas, and it's the one time of year that all Christians are expected to go to church. For non-christians, this is perhaps the more puzzling holiday. Do they celebrate Christ's death on the cross and rising again, or do they celebrate the birth of a new year and the budding of flowers? (personally, I think that's a wonderful thing to celebrate anyway) If not these, then all they celebrate is getting big egg shaped chocolates and having time off of school/work. Pointless.

Halloween is yet another festival that has been taken from a pagan ritual and mixed with the church's festival. All Hallow's Eve is the night before the celebration of All Saints Day, which means that the devil holds sway on this night. The pagan belief, Celtic I believe, is that it is the day for spirits to rise up and hold power over the earth, therefore you must dress up and decorate your house to scare them away. Trick or treating came along later on as an American tradition. In fact, look further than America and you can see the Mexican festival related to this, the Day of the Dead (no, not the zombie movie). This festival celebrates all that have died and gone before and people dress up as the dead and make death cakes and generally celebrate the spirits of their departed. A wonderful idea that may look macabre to the outsider.

However, children like dressing up and if they go around houses with adults and collect sweets then it's fun for them. It may have no actual significance to some, but it makes another normal evening fun.
Mon 01/12/03 at 08:45
Regular
"Laughingstock"
Posts: 3,522
I'm not a big fan of official tradition.
Every year I find myself grumbling at the 'bang bang-bang-bang bang' of the fireworks on and around Nov 5th.
When I see the opening of Parliament where Blackrod knocks on the door with his staff, I think: why is that sane man acting like a twerp?
When a sozzled stranger wishes me "Happy New Year", I think: you don't mean it.
Christmas is okay, but it wouldn't bother me if it just 'went away'.

I do think individuals should have their own personal traditions though. For instance: when I was 15, me and a couple of friends saw a ghostly fire in a field which vanished into the night as we approached it - it was like a shared hallucination (no drugs were taken). This event had quite an impact on us at the time - the impressionable youngsters that we were. So every year on its anniversary it's our tradition to meet up at this field, get hopelessly drunk and talk about past days.

Personal traditions I like; official traditions I could live without.
Sun 30/11/03 at 21:22
Regular
"smile, it's free"
Posts: 6,460
I'm all in favour of just about every tradition going.

I don't think you need a reason to celebrate traditional events. You need a reason not to. Every tradition started out as a one-off, but people enjoyed it enough that they wanted to do it again the following year, and again the year after that. Why stop a good thing?

Traditions exist because people enjoy them. It's as simple as that. They add some variety and sparke to people's lives. Do you really want to live in a culture where every single day passes just as the one before?

Lets start with Christmas. A time of year when people buy each other gifts, and go out of their way to be nice to each other. Does it really matter whether they believe in the religous background of it all? HOw often would people all get together so see their relations if it weren't for events like Christmas?

New years eve. Like a night out, but with half the country thinking the same thing. Ever wanted to let loose, but not really enjoyed it because nobody else was? At new year's eve, everyone is. That's not an experience you can recreate easily.

Valentine's day. An excuse to be spontaneous or romantic. Who cares about the money? Haloween, Easter. More traditional celebrations adding something different to your year.

Your life is governed by a set of sensible priorities you set to guide yourself through your life. These priorities imprison you, restrict your freedom. All these traditions are about periodically freeing yourself. It's good for you.
Sun 30/11/03 at 21:21
Regular
"gsybe you!"
Posts: 18,825
Er, but is it not tradition at Christmas time to come together and celebrate, whether it be Christian or not? Or just an excuse, albeit elaborate, to have a nice time?

Also, I don't think it's 'cool' to be an atheist, and I don't think this generation does either. Man, like, whack. Traditions are comforting, structural things that mean people can feel they have some sort of history to themselves.
Sun 30/11/03 at 20:19
Regular
"Light of the world"
Posts: 4,763
Well firstly as a piece of writing this could do brilliantly if i copied and pasted it for my coursework.

But 1) I am not a cheater

and 2) scarily I have just created a similar piece yet on England (with traditions included)


I have been brought up in a non - christian family and yet we always celebrated christmas. Like English_Bloke i saw it as a time spent with my family. It was amazing every year we would wake up early, open christmas presents then play and get showered before my Grandparents and Uncle/Auntie/cousins arrived for a traditional MIZEN FAMILY FEAST! (We are big eaters)Then in the evening it would be at another (probably more distant) members' of families house for a christmas party. Then another party on boxing evening and another on New Years Eve.

It is only in the past year or so when myself is now christian in a non christian family (yes... it is difficult) that I see the other more religious side of christmas. The birth of my saviour who is later to live a life to die in the most gruesome and painful manner for our sins.

...But even then Christmas was a pagan created tradition (how the hell would we know that the 25th od december is the birthday of Christ?? ..exactly)

We teach our children of santa Claus a fat man who will bring presents in a red sleigh guided by flying reindeer.... This little tale really must of derived from an Earl high on opium i am guessing because seriously...

Halloween - I have NEVER seen the point in celebrating dead bodies rising from the ground. I never wanted to wander around a town taking sweets from strangers (after all isnt this what we were taught exactly NOT to do)

Valentines day - Again another commercialised date in which teenagers and insecure females can feel suicidal when they do not recieve a letter from an admirer! I do not need a fluffy pink card and a candle lit dinner on a night in which every restaurant charges three times the usual to know my Boyfriend loves me. I know he loves me because he tells me everyday and shows his love in non materialistic ways, this aside... It is still nice to be treated on a special day. But the whole idea - a commercial pull for a mug nation!


Kyle you have got me rialled up and thinking again. You have me reading my coursework and seeing our opinions meet. Nice one mate cheers for passing that time!
Sun 30/11/03 at 18:52
Regular
"Notable"
Posts: 4,558
well tradition defanitaly does build the foundations we live in today
Sun 30/11/03 at 18:48
"period drama"
Posts: 19,792
I was also brought up in a Christian family - indeed, my dad's a Methodist Minister - but that's beside the point. I've only just stopped going to church every week after some thinking on my faith.
It turns out I don't have any.

But even when I thought I did, Christmas was always about my family and having a good time. It's one time everyone around you is happy (well, most people) and it makes you fell good as well.
Without Christmas to look forward to, winter would be one hell of a crappy time.

A lot of what I'm thinking English Bloke has already put down, which makes sense considering our similar situation up-bringing wise.

Especially about Halloween - can't stand it's utter pointlessness.

And I've never celebrated the new year anyway. We usually stay up (my family) until 12 and have some champagne - but I don't really care, it's just another day.
And I think it would be stupid to think back on the good times you've had just on new year's, because I do that everyday.

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