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OK, don't get me wrong, I don't think that online gaming is in a downward spiral! However have you noticed that a lot of online shooters (CounterStrike, Quake III etc) essentially boil down to the same thing. Run around very fast, shoot, have a slanging match with some dude called 'player224' and whinge about the lag you're suffering. True each game has it's differences, CS has a fairly unique style of play, but lets face it, the Half-Life engine is looking a bit tired now. Quake III, very pretty, nice lights and so on, but it's all been done before (maybe a bit more brown..). There are more games on the horizon (when I say horizon, it's big far away horizon, seeing as some are over a year away), which promise loads of great things - co-operative teamplay, stunning graphics yadda yaddaa. When Team Fortress 2 was announced, we jumped for joy, worshipped Valve and couldn't wait to get our teeth into it. Now pushing 3 years later, we still can't wait, but we are not quite champing at the bit like we used too. This is because since then so many more games have been announced that promise the same thing. Our repsonse has diminshed from the 'WAAHOO yeah bring on man!' to a quiet 'hmmm could be good, I'll wait and see'. That was until Planetside surfaced. Not since the inception of Team Fortress 2 has the gaming community been in such a state of pant wetting anticipation. Whilst at a cursory glance it appears to be a pretty Team Fortress, further inspection reveals the not so hidden depths. Levels are huge, and complex. Outside theatres are very much outside (no towering buildings or high walls to fence me in). The world is persistent giving a high level of interaction, making it more captivating. You will have a more consistent role, with a long term aim and sense of purpose. No longer is it just a case of seeing your name at the top of a score board after 10 minutes. Whilst some games promise fully user defined worlds - which wonderful in theory, would be very hard to administer and manage - Planetside offers a realistic framework, which makes the game appear more tangible. A cynic I may be, but when I hear about some of these new massively multiplayer games, I start to count down the time until the project is dropped or radically altered to something completely different. Planetside seems to offer something achievable, yet different and very exciting. News may have been around on Planetside for a while now, but, ever the cynic, I wait until something more solid appears before I start champing at the bit.
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PseudoSavant
Today 2.49AM
Shoulsn't you be in bed? I think you should change your name to Nightposter!
Today 2.49AM
Shoulsn't you be in bed? I think you should change your name to Nightposter!
When it comes to Planetside, let's just say I have my doubts. For a couple of reasons actually:
1) The difficulty in getting new people to become active due to veteran prejudice;
2) The fact that current FPS players (the twitch gamers) can experience the same level of FPS action already without having to pay a regular monthly fee to do it;
...and...
3) Verant has never made a FPS before; they may be kings of the Persistent State World genre at the moment, but it doesn't mean they can make an effective FPS. Also, a great many online gamers don't trust Verant. (For example, there was a general cry of horror from the online gaming community when it was learned that Verant was working on Star Wars Galaxies.)
As for veterans' attitudes towards newbies: This is simply moronic. When I started out on a large number of games, and not just FPSs, I caught a lot of hell from veterans for being new. I got better over time in all these environments and later even became involved with a couple of guilds. Part of what I wanted to bring to the table was that we should accept newbies openly and try to make their transition from mediocrity as quick and painless as possible. Problem was that, after a while, people just grew impatient or didn't have their hearts in it. So it got nowhere.
And I agree, gronti, it can sometimes be fun to lose. I've had that occur a number of times. But, if that's all you do, it begins to grow old and a bit frustrating for newbies. [Can't you just tell my newbie days were fun-filled?]
1) The difficulty in getting new people to become active due to veteran prejudice;
2) The fact that current FPS players (the twitch gamers) can experience the same level of FPS action already without having to pay a regular monthly fee to do it;
...and...
3) Verant has never made a FPS before; they may be kings of the Persistent State World genre at the moment, but it doesn't mean they can make an effective FPS. Also, a great many online gamers don't trust Verant. (For example, there was a general cry of horror from the online gaming community when it was learned that Verant was working on Star Wars Galaxies.)
As for veterans' attitudes towards newbies: This is simply moronic. When I started out on a large number of games, and not just FPSs, I caught a lot of hell from veterans for being new. I got better over time in all these environments and later even became involved with a couple of guilds. Part of what I wanted to bring to the table was that we should accept newbies openly and try to make their transition from mediocrity as quick and painless as possible. Problem was that, after a while, people just grew impatient or didn't have their hearts in it. So it got nowhere.
And I agree, gronti, it can sometimes be fun to lose. I've had that occur a number of times. But, if that's all you do, it begins to grow old and a bit frustrating for newbies. [Can't you just tell my newbie days were fun-filled?]
You know you won a game for this Unkle? :D
Thanks for your comments gronti. I have experienced playing many different online games, and it is true what you say about the reception newbies get in FPS's. It's a shame, because it is this attitude which has put me off playing them online, and many other people I'm sure. PseudoSavant also raises some good points. However I reckon that with objectives becoming important, then experienced players will be forced to help newbies. With a long term cause and effect type situation, the experienced players will benefit be helping newbies. Also PseudoSavant's comments on graphics, while I am not an advocate of graphics over content, what is relevant is the age of the graphics engine. Sure CS is great and the gameplay is better than any FPS online (I think anyway). But if we can get great gameplay and motherhumping gorgeous graphics then all the better man!
Oh and by the way, while we're talking about Planetside, I was just thinking how much fun it could be to travel around the world on your own (or possibly in a group) not on a specific mission and stumbling upon some enemies to fight, which may even result in the obtaining in some cool new stuff or prestige. Even if you can't Planetside sounds like being a really great game and one I would really love to play. I hope there's no registration fee or something, because if it's going to be similar to Ultima Online and charge you i'm not going to get it. Ah well, we can but wait and see...
You make a good point PseudoSavant, it is usually very hard for newbies to get into FPSs because more experienced players seem to have this deep rooted hatred of them. This is actually a very strange thing. Surely everyone remembers what it was like to be new and so wouldn't it be better to not put new players through the exact same unpleasantness that they went through when they started? Apparently not, what it seems is that they want revenge for the treatment they got when they started which causes a terrible cycle of newbie hatred. Furthermore, newbie hatred is a trait which is most often reserved for FPS players... You play something like Diablo and the majority of players would rather help you get on your feet that remove them with a rusty spoon. Perhaps these people who despise newbies so much just look for a scapegoat for any bad play in their team including any mistakes they may have made themselves but saying this is unfair because even if it is true to some I don't believe it applies to everyone. It just seems to be something that the on-line FPS playing society seem to accept as a survival necessity. If you are forgiving to newbies and accept that since they are new they are bound to make mistakes you might as well give them a pat on the back and say that it's okay because they're only learning, then it must be a sign that you are weak, not to be had on anyone's team and that you would make a perfect target. Newbie hatred seems to continue perhaps because newbies who have been insulted and hated for so long blame themselves and feel bad about being a newbie, which in turn makes them hate other newbies which causes them to join the ranks of the newbie haters when they are more experienced.
Now, coming to the main point of this topic, Planetside. I think that Planetside may actually do a lot to defeat newbie hatred rather than breed it, it certainly is a possibility. I think it could do this by allowing newbies to band together and go on missions and things to learn as a group, without having to suffer an experienced player telling them that they are useless and ruin the team all the time. Since Planetside is going to have a huge world to play in, it is likely to attract a lot of people to it and it will make it easy for newbies to find other like-experienced people so that they can have a fun game with no one picking at their flaws. Now you are probably thinking: "If everyone in a team is a newbie, surely they will always lose to the more experienced teams they are fighting!" You may be right, however, even if they do lose a lot of their games there wont be anyone telling them they are useless and so instead of being downheartened, they will be able to improve themselves without feeling unworthy to play the game and eventually they will become good and be able to win games. Anyway, isn't the point of playing a game to have fun and be challenged, not to always win. I find that even if I lose a game it can be fun, seeing the hilarious way in which you had your head removed by that guy with the railgun can be enjoyable, it doesn't have to be looked at as being a serious bad thing which is infuriating to have happen. So I think that this would be great, hordes of newbie teams scouring the Planetside, losing games but having fun and learning, so that one day they can beat the other guys and start taking territory back. So here's hoping that Planetside causes an improvement in the treatment of poor innocent newbies, since there are already too many people who just don't make the effort.
Now, coming to the main point of this topic, Planetside. I think that Planetside may actually do a lot to defeat newbie hatred rather than breed it, it certainly is a possibility. I think it could do this by allowing newbies to band together and go on missions and things to learn as a group, without having to suffer an experienced player telling them that they are useless and ruin the team all the time. Since Planetside is going to have a huge world to play in, it is likely to attract a lot of people to it and it will make it easy for newbies to find other like-experienced people so that they can have a fun game with no one picking at their flaws. Now you are probably thinking: "If everyone in a team is a newbie, surely they will always lose to the more experienced teams they are fighting!" You may be right, however, even if they do lose a lot of their games there wont be anyone telling them they are useless and so instead of being downheartened, they will be able to improve themselves without feeling unworthy to play the game and eventually they will become good and be able to win games. Anyway, isn't the point of playing a game to have fun and be challenged, not to always win. I find that even if I lose a game it can be fun, seeing the hilarious way in which you had your head removed by that guy with the railgun can be enjoyable, it doesn't have to be looked at as being a serious bad thing which is infuriating to have happen. So I think that this would be great, hordes of newbie teams scouring the Planetside, losing games but having fun and learning, so that one day they can beat the other guys and start taking territory back. So here's hoping that Planetside causes an improvement in the treatment of poor innocent newbies, since there are already too many people who just don't make the effort.
Unkle Cornelius wrote:
> However have you noticed that a lot of online shooters (CounterStrike, Quake III etc) essentially boil down to the same thing. Run around very fast, shoot, have a slanging match with some dude called 'player224' and whinge about the lag you're suffering. <
Ah...*sighs admirably* So, um...sorry, what's the point?
> True each game has it's differences, CS has a fairly unique style of play, but lets face it, the Half-Life engine is looking a bit tired now. <
If the game is fun, what does how it looks have to do with it?
> That was until Planetside surfaced. Not since the inception of Team Fortress 2 has the gaming community been in such a state of pant wetting anticipation. Whilst at a cursory glance it appears to be a pretty Team Fortress, further inspection reveals the not so hidden depths. Levels are huge, and complex. Outside theatres are very much outside (no towering buildings or high walls to fence me in). The world is persistent giving a high level of interaction, making it more captivating. You will have a more consistent role, with a long term aim and sense of purpose. No longer is it just a case of seeing your name at the top of a score board after 10 minutes. Whilst some games promise fully user defined worlds - which wonderful in theory, would be very hard to administer and manage - Planetside offers a realistic framework, which makes the game appear more tangible. A cynic I may be, but when I hear about some of these new massively multiplayer games, I start to count down the time until the project is dropped or radically altered to something completely different. Planetside seems to offer something achievable, yet different and very exciting. News may have been around on Planetside for a while now, but, ever the cynic, I wait until something more solid appears before I start champing at the bit. <
All this is great, except for one thing: VERANT. *listens as the villagers all cry out in agony* Yes, VERANT. *hears them scream out once again, blood-curdling*
Sorry, couldn't resist. =)
Will Planetside be cool? Yup, for the first few months maybe, then it'll go downhill and fail at interesting new players. Why? Because think of the hell newbies are put through on the present multiplayer FPSs, and those missions mean nothing. I mean, for crying out loud, when I first started playing Tribes, I felt bad if I lost an objective, despite the fact that it really didn't *matter*. I'd let down my team and I knew that, and I felt bad. I later got over that, but still...it was depressing knowing that when a person called me 'newbie' and said how much I cost the team, I knew that what they were saying was true.
Now, I'm trying to imagine how hard it's going to be on new people to Planetside, where objectives really do matter. For one thing, they're going to catch all sorts of verbal abuse for their inadequate fighting abilities; not just that, but they'll know it's true. When they look at their company's map and see how they've lost ground, they'll feel it was their fault for not being able to do anything right. They'll feel that, because the older players will make sure they know it. That's the fun of persistence. Be ready for it.
> However have you noticed that a lot of online shooters (CounterStrike, Quake III etc) essentially boil down to the same thing. Run around very fast, shoot, have a slanging match with some dude called 'player224' and whinge about the lag you're suffering. <
Ah...*sighs admirably* So, um...sorry, what's the point?
> True each game has it's differences, CS has a fairly unique style of play, but lets face it, the Half-Life engine is looking a bit tired now. <
If the game is fun, what does how it looks have to do with it?
> That was until Planetside surfaced. Not since the inception of Team Fortress 2 has the gaming community been in such a state of pant wetting anticipation. Whilst at a cursory glance it appears to be a pretty Team Fortress, further inspection reveals the not so hidden depths. Levels are huge, and complex. Outside theatres are very much outside (no towering buildings or high walls to fence me in). The world is persistent giving a high level of interaction, making it more captivating. You will have a more consistent role, with a long term aim and sense of purpose. No longer is it just a case of seeing your name at the top of a score board after 10 minutes. Whilst some games promise fully user defined worlds - which wonderful in theory, would be very hard to administer and manage - Planetside offers a realistic framework, which makes the game appear more tangible. A cynic I may be, but when I hear about some of these new massively multiplayer games, I start to count down the time until the project is dropped or radically altered to something completely different. Planetside seems to offer something achievable, yet different and very exciting. News may have been around on Planetside for a while now, but, ever the cynic, I wait until something more solid appears before I start champing at the bit. <
All this is great, except for one thing: VERANT. *listens as the villagers all cry out in agony* Yes, VERANT. *hears them scream out once again, blood-curdling*
Sorry, couldn't resist. =)
Will Planetside be cool? Yup, for the first few months maybe, then it'll go downhill and fail at interesting new players. Why? Because think of the hell newbies are put through on the present multiplayer FPSs, and those missions mean nothing. I mean, for crying out loud, when I first started playing Tribes, I felt bad if I lost an objective, despite the fact that it really didn't *matter*. I'd let down my team and I knew that, and I felt bad. I later got over that, but still...it was depressing knowing that when a person called me 'newbie' and said how much I cost the team, I knew that what they were saying was true.
Now, I'm trying to imagine how hard it's going to be on new people to Planetside, where objectives really do matter. For one thing, they're going to catch all sorts of verbal abuse for their inadequate fighting abilities; not just that, but they'll know it's true. When they look at their company's map and see how they've lost ground, they'll feel it was their fault for not being able to do anything right. They'll feel that, because the older players will make sure they know it. That's the fun of persistence. Be ready for it.
OK, don't get me wrong, I don't think that online gaming is in a downward spiral! However have you noticed that a lot of online shooters (CounterStrike, Quake III etc) essentially boil down to the same thing. Run around very fast, shoot, have a slanging match with some dude called 'player224' and whinge about the lag you're suffering. True each game has it's differences, CS has a fairly unique style of play, but lets face it, the Half-Life engine is looking a bit tired now. Quake III, very pretty, nice lights and so on, but it's all been done before (maybe a bit more brown..). There are more games on the horizon (when I say horizon, it's big far away horizon, seeing as some are over a year away), which promise loads of great things - co-operative teamplay, stunning graphics yadda yaddaa. When Team Fortress 2 was announced, we jumped for joy, worshipped Valve and couldn't wait to get our teeth into it. Now pushing 3 years later, we still can't wait, but we are not quite champing at the bit like we used too. This is because since then so many more games have been announced that promise the same thing. Our repsonse has diminshed from the 'WAAHOO yeah bring on man!' to a quiet 'hmmm could be good, I'll wait and see'. That was until Planetside surfaced. Not since the inception of Team Fortress 2 has the gaming community been in such a state of pant wetting anticipation. Whilst at a cursory glance it appears to be a pretty Team Fortress, further inspection reveals the not so hidden depths. Levels are huge, and complex. Outside theatres are very much outside (no towering buildings or high walls to fence me in). The world is persistent giving a high level of interaction, making it more captivating. You will have a more consistent role, with a long term aim and sense of purpose. No longer is it just a case of seeing your name at the top of a score board after 10 minutes. Whilst some games promise fully user defined worlds - which wonderful in theory, would be very hard to administer and manage - Planetside offers a realistic framework, which makes the game appear more tangible. A cynic I may be, but when I hear about some of these new massively multiplayer games, I start to count down the time until the project is dropped or radically altered to something completely different. Planetside seems to offer something achievable, yet different and very exciting. News may have been around on Planetside for a while now, but, ever the cynic, I wait until something more solid appears before I start champing at the bit.
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