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Amidst the media hype and general scare mongering there are a few facts evident about SARS.
*It's spread has been brought about by air travel.
*A vaccine is going to be difficult as it's mutated/associated with the common cold virus.
*It is showing potential to mutate - therefore a vaccine for one country may not work in another.
*Spread by close contact.
*Possibly spread in micro droplets from person to person, in other words face masks, whilst being a little bit of a placebo, may actually be only semi effective.
Fortunately, so far, the Chinese only have a problem because of their attempted cover up of it - something which may lead to another of the world's few Communist regimes finally going under, but that's another story - and other countries are attempting to contain it, possibly with success.
There's more of a chance you'll be mugged, hit by a car, or infected with any number of other diseases than get SARS, at the moment. Mortality rates are currently about 6%, maybe exagerated by China's woefull attempts to hide and treat those infected. Even within Toronto the figures are skewed by the presence of various Asian communities where the outbreak ocurred. It may well be they did not seek treatment very fast or did not have medical insurance to do so, and that deterred them until symptoms were advanced enough to warrant concern.
We don't know a lot, and we're fearing a lot, or at least the media are trying their best to.
Now, WMD, Weapons Of Mass Destruction, includes the wonderful category of biological weapons.
Leaving aside the situation of Iraq, a quick look at the forums shows that me, and others, have made anything involving that a somewhat funless insult exchanging compo, consider now why the world must take steps to eradicate WMD's, eventually from everywhere on the planet, or at least back to purely defensive roles.
Imagine this.
A lab worker in a research facility steals one vial of, let's say, Ebola Zaire virus. Or, a group breaks into a lab, steals it. He/She/They disappear without trace, or they just go straight to the nearest shopping centre, town square e.t.c and smash the vial. Let's say they disappear, work with the virus, adapt it. A year later, or less, those same people reappear in another area, or country, and obtain jobs in malls, centres, towns, cities, anywhere. One day, when they go to work, each carries a cannister, they spray the contents around them.
Ebola Zaire. Airborne. 98% (roughly) mortality. 5-10 days incubation period, longer with engineering. Highly infectious. No vaccine or cure.
It makes SARS look like a cold. Of every 1000 who could have it only 20 would surive.
And there are plenty more lovelies like Ebola out there right not. The former USSR had a fair few, many of which are not lost along with it's former republics. We have some, for "defensive uses", so does the USA, and there are many many samples from around the world missing. Ebola isn't even hard to get, just fly out to an infectious zone and get some, and hope you don't get caught.
Think about it. 98% mortaility, millions would be die. Armageddon in the 21st century lies not at the tip of a nuclear weapon, but in a test tube, and unless something is done it will be something that we hear of all too late.
*It's spread has been brought about by air travel.
*A vaccine is going to be difficult as it's mutated/associated with the common cold virus.
*It is showing potential to mutate - therefore a vaccine for one country may not work in another.
*Spread by close contact.
*Possibly spread in micro droplets from person to person, in other words face masks, whilst being a little bit of a placebo, may actually be only semi effective.
Fortunately, so far, the Chinese only have a problem because of their attempted cover up of it - something which may lead to another of the world's few Communist regimes finally going under, but that's another story - and other countries are attempting to contain it, possibly with success.
There's more of a chance you'll be mugged, hit by a car, or infected with any number of other diseases than get SARS, at the moment. Mortality rates are currently about 6%, maybe exagerated by China's woefull attempts to hide and treat those infected. Even within Toronto the figures are skewed by the presence of various Asian communities where the outbreak ocurred. It may well be they did not seek treatment very fast or did not have medical insurance to do so, and that deterred them until symptoms were advanced enough to warrant concern.
We don't know a lot, and we're fearing a lot, or at least the media are trying their best to.
Now, WMD, Weapons Of Mass Destruction, includes the wonderful category of biological weapons.
Leaving aside the situation of Iraq, a quick look at the forums shows that me, and others, have made anything involving that a somewhat funless insult exchanging compo, consider now why the world must take steps to eradicate WMD's, eventually from everywhere on the planet, or at least back to purely defensive roles.
Imagine this.
A lab worker in a research facility steals one vial of, let's say, Ebola Zaire virus. Or, a group breaks into a lab, steals it. He/She/They disappear without trace, or they just go straight to the nearest shopping centre, town square e.t.c and smash the vial. Let's say they disappear, work with the virus, adapt it. A year later, or less, those same people reappear in another area, or country, and obtain jobs in malls, centres, towns, cities, anywhere. One day, when they go to work, each carries a cannister, they spray the contents around them.
Ebola Zaire. Airborne. 98% (roughly) mortality. 5-10 days incubation period, longer with engineering. Highly infectious. No vaccine or cure.
It makes SARS look like a cold. Of every 1000 who could have it only 20 would surive.
And there are plenty more lovelies like Ebola out there right not. The former USSR had a fair few, many of which are not lost along with it's former republics. We have some, for "defensive uses", so does the USA, and there are many many samples from around the world missing. Ebola isn't even hard to get, just fly out to an infectious zone and get some, and hope you don't get caught.
Think about it. 98% mortaility, millions would be die. Armageddon in the 21st century lies not at the tip of a nuclear weapon, but in a test tube, and unless something is done it will be something that we hear of all too late.
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The problem here is not the existence of WOMD, but our way of thinking. If that doesn’t change then it won’t matter what type of weapons we get rid of, people will just smash each other with the next thing that comes to hand.
Your fears about Biochemical Warfare are understandable, but then it is unlikely that terrorists would ever be able to lay their hands on these biohazards. The use of these naturally occurring Filoviruses (Ebola strains or Marburg) is restricted to areas that would prove harder to gain access to than most Military instillations, and the procedures in place to stop people walking in and out with a Bio safety Level 4 virus are fairly rigorous. I’ve seen a level 3 facility (AIDS) and believe me, it would take a extreme show of force to gain access to one of these places. Security for workers is very tight as well - slipping that vial of Ebola into your pocket and strolling out the front gate ala The 12 Monkeys is really not on the agenda.
Obtaining it from an infected area is incredibly unlikely - when cases are detected entire towns are quarantined, and as it’s natural reservoir is not known (Ebola), although it is suspected to be an animal, you can’t get it from it’s source. So Fred the mystic terrorist will not be able to simply stroll into wherever the next flare up of the virus is, and collect himself a tissue/blood sample.
Despite it’s mortality rate, which is estimated at 70 to 90%, the threat from Ebola is not global, due to it’s virology. Ebola infections are acute, there is no carrier state (in humans), though the incubation period can be up to three weeks - so travel with the virus is possible,. Though if an outbreak occurred, most countries wouldn’t let the inbound plane/boat/whatever within any distance of them - that’s what quarantine means.
Ebola Zaire is not airborne naturally, the strain known as Renton - which is not dangerous to humans is. Though admittedly, all four strains have shown the ability to travel as an aerosol, this has only been witnessed under laboratory conditions - never in a hospital or normal environment. Even if somebody did manage to obtain a canister of aerosolised Ebola Zaire, anybody infected would not be able to pass on the virus via airways, only through blood/secretions. If it was truly airborne, don’t you think a lot more people would have died?
But the main thing to realise is that, the only a handful of countries have access to the technology required to even determine the difference between most of these strains - let alone even begin to understand how to cultivate them. Of course, these are the same countries that are responsible for just about every other technological terror released on the modern day world. And they have little qualms about distributing them for the right price.
It is our (global) attitude that must change, destroying WOMD, bological or otherwise is not enough. All of the while people seek to control others through aggressive and destructive acts, nothing will ever get any better. And stamping out the terrorists/nations/whoever with force will not accomplish any goal, because unless there is understanding (from all parties) there will always be the need for weapons , biological or the more 'acceptable' types of weapons.
I don’t usually quote others, but in this case I think it’s relevant;
“Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding"
Albert Einstein - A man who’s genius and search for understanding was perverted into one of the greatest travesties that mankind will ever see.
Your fears about Biochemical Warfare are understandable, but then it is unlikely that terrorists would ever be able to lay their hands on these biohazards. The use of these naturally occurring Filoviruses (Ebola strains or Marburg) is restricted to areas that would prove harder to gain access to than most Military instillations, and the procedures in place to stop people walking in and out with a Bio safety Level 4 virus are fairly rigorous. I’ve seen a level 3 facility (AIDS) and believe me, it would take a extreme show of force to gain access to one of these places. Security for workers is very tight as well - slipping that vial of Ebola into your pocket and strolling out the front gate ala The 12 Monkeys is really not on the agenda.
Obtaining it from an infected area is incredibly unlikely - when cases are detected entire towns are quarantined, and as it’s natural reservoir is not known (Ebola), although it is suspected to be an animal, you can’t get it from it’s source. So Fred the mystic terrorist will not be able to simply stroll into wherever the next flare up of the virus is, and collect himself a tissue/blood sample.
Despite it’s mortality rate, which is estimated at 70 to 90%, the threat from Ebola is not global, due to it’s virology. Ebola infections are acute, there is no carrier state (in humans), though the incubation period can be up to three weeks - so travel with the virus is possible,. Though if an outbreak occurred, most countries wouldn’t let the inbound plane/boat/whatever within any distance of them - that’s what quarantine means.
Ebola Zaire is not airborne naturally, the strain known as Renton - which is not dangerous to humans is. Though admittedly, all four strains have shown the ability to travel as an aerosol, this has only been witnessed under laboratory conditions - never in a hospital or normal environment. Even if somebody did manage to obtain a canister of aerosolised Ebola Zaire, anybody infected would not be able to pass on the virus via airways, only through blood/secretions. If it was truly airborne, don’t you think a lot more people would have died?
But the main thing to realise is that, the only a handful of countries have access to the technology required to even determine the difference between most of these strains - let alone even begin to understand how to cultivate them. Of course, these are the same countries that are responsible for just about every other technological terror released on the modern day world. And they have little qualms about distributing them for the right price.
It is our (global) attitude that must change, destroying WOMD, bological or otherwise is not enough. All of the while people seek to control others through aggressive and destructive acts, nothing will ever get any better. And stamping out the terrorists/nations/whoever with force will not accomplish any goal, because unless there is understanding (from all parties) there will always be the need for weapons , biological or the more 'acceptable' types of weapons.
I don’t usually quote others, but in this case I think it’s relevant;
“Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding"
Albert Einstein - A man who’s genius and search for understanding was perverted into one of the greatest travesties that mankind will ever see.
Nope, if you want to use scare-tactics by mentioning Ebola and throwing mortality rates around - get them right and provide a means for people to check for themselves.
The internet is far too easy a tool for people to read something and panic like the chattel they are.
If you're going to paint worst-case scenarios, at least give idiots the opportunity to read for themselves instead of running out and buying all the bread in Tesco.
Now, as much as I'd love to sit and continue this, I'm running late for an encounter and, whilst I love you dearly, you're not nearly as soft as she is.
Later Mong
The internet is far too easy a tool for people to read something and panic like the chattel they are.
If you're going to paint worst-case scenarios, at least give idiots the opportunity to read for themselves instead of running out and buying all the bread in Tesco.
Now, as much as I'd love to sit and continue this, I'm running late for an encounter and, whilst I love you dearly, you're not nearly as soft as she is.
Later Mong
Even withouttextbook references it was clear I wasn't saying SARS was a terrorist event, but that the relation was in control of the event, in other words my point was valid and only needs commmon sense to see.
I've always been terrified by the mere possibility of something like a lethal airborne virus.
Like that smallpox 'documentary' they made soon after September 11th.
'Defense purposes'
Sure....an airborne virus that is indiscriminate.....
Like that smallpox 'documentary' they made soon after September 11th.
'Defense purposes'
Sure....an airborne virus that is indiscriminate.....
No, just you.
And only because you have a habit of dishing out blanket statements and claiming them as truth, instead of just saying "I think" or "As far as I'm aware"
If you're going to be Mr Facts, you have to provide sources.
Thems the rules since time immemorial when discussing percentages, rates and such.
And only because you have a habit of dishing out blanket statements and claiming them as truth, instead of just saying "I think" or "As far as I'm aware"
If you're going to be Mr Facts, you have to provide sources.
Thems the rules since time immemorial when discussing percentages, rates and such.
http://www.mindspring.com/%7Ecinque/ebola.html
I was up 8% on infection mortality, so now 100 of a 1000 survive, but the incubation period is 2-21 days so the scenario is far worse.
SARS is a biological agent by it's nature, except it's natural or so it would seem. Bio agents are, if deadly enough, WMD.
My valid point is that if we cannot control and isolate such a paltry things as SARs then our chances against a real killer virus are zero.
So, I guess we have to fully reference everything now ? That'll be fun.
I was up 8% on infection mortality, so now 100 of a 1000 survive, but the incubation period is 2-21 days so the scenario is far worse.
SARS is a biological agent by it's nature, except it's natural or so it would seem. Bio agents are, if deadly enough, WMD.
My valid point is that if we cannot control and isolate such a paltry things as SARs then our chances against a real killer virus are zero.
So, I guess we have to fully reference everything now ? That'll be fun.
Mongoloid.
How can someone even as retarded as yourself link SARS to Iraq and WOMD??
Are you even remotely suggesting for a single second that this disease is man-made or assisted in spreading with any intention?
Once again, where are your facts for incubation periods and mortality rates?
Where is the info so that people can check for themselves these (wrong) facts you hand out like Mojos at cub-camp?
If this was an essay for college, you'd get a D for non-listing of sources.
Christ kid, even for someone lugging around such a massive water-filled head as yourself is straining here.
How can someone even as retarded as yourself link SARS to Iraq and WOMD??
Are you even remotely suggesting for a single second that this disease is man-made or assisted in spreading with any intention?
Once again, where are your facts for incubation periods and mortality rates?
Where is the info so that people can check for themselves these (wrong) facts you hand out like Mojos at cub-camp?
If this was an essay for college, you'd get a D for non-listing of sources.
Christ kid, even for someone lugging around such a massive water-filled head as yourself is straining here.
Amidst the media hype and general scare mongering there are a few facts evident about SARS.
*It's spread has been brought about by air travel.
*A vaccine is going to be difficult as it's mutated/associated with the common cold virus.
*It is showing potential to mutate - therefore a vaccine for one country may not work in another.
*Spread by close contact.
*Possibly spread in micro droplets from person to person, in other words face masks, whilst being a little bit of a placebo, may actually be only semi effective.
Fortunately, so far, the Chinese only have a problem because of their attempted cover up of it - something which may lead to another of the world's few Communist regimes finally going under, but that's another story - and other countries are attempting to contain it, possibly with success.
There's more of a chance you'll be mugged, hit by a car, or infected with any number of other diseases than get SARS, at the moment. Mortality rates are currently about 6%, maybe exagerated by China's woefull attempts to hide and treat those infected. Even within Toronto the figures are skewed by the presence of various Asian communities where the outbreak ocurred. It may well be they did not seek treatment very fast or did not have medical insurance to do so, and that deterred them until symptoms were advanced enough to warrant concern.
We don't know a lot, and we're fearing a lot, or at least the media are trying their best to.
Now, WMD, Weapons Of Mass Destruction, includes the wonderful category of biological weapons.
Leaving aside the situation of Iraq, a quick look at the forums shows that me, and others, have made anything involving that a somewhat funless insult exchanging compo, consider now why the world must take steps to eradicate WMD's, eventually from everywhere on the planet, or at least back to purely defensive roles.
Imagine this.
A lab worker in a research facility steals one vial of, let's say, Ebola Zaire virus. Or, a group breaks into a lab, steals it. He/She/They disappear without trace, or they just go straight to the nearest shopping centre, town square e.t.c and smash the vial. Let's say they disappear, work with the virus, adapt it. A year later, or less, those same people reappear in another area, or country, and obtain jobs in malls, centres, towns, cities, anywhere. One day, when they go to work, each carries a cannister, they spray the contents around them.
Ebola Zaire. Airborne. 98% (roughly) mortality. 5-10 days incubation period, longer with engineering. Highly infectious. No vaccine or cure.
It makes SARS look like a cold. Of every 1000 who could have it only 20 would surive.
And there are plenty more lovelies like Ebola out there right not. The former USSR had a fair few, many of which are not lost along with it's former republics. We have some, for "defensive uses", so does the USA, and there are many many samples from around the world missing. Ebola isn't even hard to get, just fly out to an infectious zone and get some, and hope you don't get caught.
Think about it. 98% mortaility, millions would be die. Armageddon in the 21st century lies not at the tip of a nuclear weapon, but in a test tube, and unless something is done it will be something that we hear of all too late.
*It's spread has been brought about by air travel.
*A vaccine is going to be difficult as it's mutated/associated with the common cold virus.
*It is showing potential to mutate - therefore a vaccine for one country may not work in another.
*Spread by close contact.
*Possibly spread in micro droplets from person to person, in other words face masks, whilst being a little bit of a placebo, may actually be only semi effective.
Fortunately, so far, the Chinese only have a problem because of their attempted cover up of it - something which may lead to another of the world's few Communist regimes finally going under, but that's another story - and other countries are attempting to contain it, possibly with success.
There's more of a chance you'll be mugged, hit by a car, or infected with any number of other diseases than get SARS, at the moment. Mortality rates are currently about 6%, maybe exagerated by China's woefull attempts to hide and treat those infected. Even within Toronto the figures are skewed by the presence of various Asian communities where the outbreak ocurred. It may well be they did not seek treatment very fast or did not have medical insurance to do so, and that deterred them until symptoms were advanced enough to warrant concern.
We don't know a lot, and we're fearing a lot, or at least the media are trying their best to.
Now, WMD, Weapons Of Mass Destruction, includes the wonderful category of biological weapons.
Leaving aside the situation of Iraq, a quick look at the forums shows that me, and others, have made anything involving that a somewhat funless insult exchanging compo, consider now why the world must take steps to eradicate WMD's, eventually from everywhere on the planet, or at least back to purely defensive roles.
Imagine this.
A lab worker in a research facility steals one vial of, let's say, Ebola Zaire virus. Or, a group breaks into a lab, steals it. He/She/They disappear without trace, or they just go straight to the nearest shopping centre, town square e.t.c and smash the vial. Let's say they disappear, work with the virus, adapt it. A year later, or less, those same people reappear in another area, or country, and obtain jobs in malls, centres, towns, cities, anywhere. One day, when they go to work, each carries a cannister, they spray the contents around them.
Ebola Zaire. Airborne. 98% (roughly) mortality. 5-10 days incubation period, longer with engineering. Highly infectious. No vaccine or cure.
It makes SARS look like a cold. Of every 1000 who could have it only 20 would surive.
And there are plenty more lovelies like Ebola out there right not. The former USSR had a fair few, many of which are not lost along with it's former republics. We have some, for "defensive uses", so does the USA, and there are many many samples from around the world missing. Ebola isn't even hard to get, just fly out to an infectious zone and get some, and hope you don't get caught.
Think about it. 98% mortaility, millions would be die. Armageddon in the 21st century lies not at the tip of a nuclear weapon, but in a test tube, and unless something is done it will be something that we hear of all too late.
Page: