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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/ [space] world/middle_east/2855851.stm
In a few weeks, all the rubbish over Iraq will calm down, and then, I pray and pray that someone will finally address Israel.
These people are just sick, and seem to think they can get away with anything. The tragedy being that they probably can.
*rage*
In a few weeks, all the rubbish over Iraq will calm down, and then, I pray and pray that someone will finally address Israel.
These people are just sick, and seem to think they can get away with anything. The tragedy being that they probably can.
*rage*
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You live in a country populated mainly by a race of people who've spent the best part of 2000 years being persecuted because of the fact they are that race.
Quite frankly I'd be a bit overzealous with the old "peacekeeping" too.
Quite frankly I'd be a bit overzealous with the old "peacekeeping" too.
loki wrote:
> There are two sides to
> this story, and branding one side 'sub-human scum' doesn't seem very
> intelligent or helpful to me. That's all I'm saying.
Of course it isn't helpful or intelligent but it wasn't meant to be. I've waxed lyrical enough about the conflict in the middle east to know both sides of the story and I've read a lot of literature concerning it in my time. And after reading both sides, that's what I feel. I didn't say the Palestinians were any better - their acts of wanton violence and destruction are abhorrent and anathema to their cause. Indeed, they are as bad by killing innocents. However, I think the Israelis go way over the top with their tactics to kill terrorists.
When innocent people suffer and their suffering could normally be avoided with a bit more care, what can you say? When whole villages are displaced, creating more refugees, is that humane? When peoples livelihood are destroyed in one fell swoop and certain sections are forced to live in squalor and segregated are those the rational actions of a people who themselves have suffered that fate in the past? No.
I even read the e-mails that dead American girl sent to her parents. Sorry if you don't agree with my sentiments, but that's how I feel. Okay, my statement seems a bit harsh but I'm quite capable of rational debate when and if I need to. Pick up on my statement and castigate me for it, by all means. I'm not going to revoke what I said, though.
> There are two sides to
> this story, and branding one side 'sub-human scum' doesn't seem very
> intelligent or helpful to me. That's all I'm saying.
Of course it isn't helpful or intelligent but it wasn't meant to be. I've waxed lyrical enough about the conflict in the middle east to know both sides of the story and I've read a lot of literature concerning it in my time. And after reading both sides, that's what I feel. I didn't say the Palestinians were any better - their acts of wanton violence and destruction are abhorrent and anathema to their cause. Indeed, they are as bad by killing innocents. However, I think the Israelis go way over the top with their tactics to kill terrorists.
When innocent people suffer and their suffering could normally be avoided with a bit more care, what can you say? When whole villages are displaced, creating more refugees, is that humane? When peoples livelihood are destroyed in one fell swoop and certain sections are forced to live in squalor and segregated are those the rational actions of a people who themselves have suffered that fate in the past? No.
I even read the e-mails that dead American girl sent to her parents. Sorry if you don't agree with my sentiments, but that's how I feel. Okay, my statement seems a bit harsh but I'm quite capable of rational debate when and if I need to. Pick up on my statement and castigate me for it, by all means. I'm not going to revoke what I said, though.
wow
HalloHowArtThou wrote:
> loki,
>
> Those are two incidents, although 2 is two too many I'm sure I can
> list you a lot of times when the Israeli 'Peace-Keepers' have stormed
> in on refugee camps and killed loads of people, and even then stayed
> there for days on end.. and not let anyone in until they've done the
> cleaning
Yes, but the nature of the threat to Britain was very different. If Britain or the USA were surrounded by hostile nations and subject to consistent terrorist attacks these kind of incidents may not be so isolated. Look at the USA, one terrible terrorist attack has somehow led to the point of invading a country which wasn't even involved in the original attack - surely in total breach of international law. Not to mention the abandonment of human rights in detention centres for suspected terrorists.
Put the Bush administration in the Israeli government's place and I doubt the outcome would be much more pretty. There are two sides to this story, and branding one side 'sub-human scum' doesn't seem very intelligent or helpful to me. That's all I'm saying.
> loki,
>
> Those are two incidents, although 2 is two too many I'm sure I can
> list you a lot of times when the Israeli 'Peace-Keepers' have stormed
> in on refugee camps and killed loads of people, and even then stayed
> there for days on end.. and not let anyone in until they've done the
> cleaning
Yes, but the nature of the threat to Britain was very different. If Britain or the USA were surrounded by hostile nations and subject to consistent terrorist attacks these kind of incidents may not be so isolated. Look at the USA, one terrible terrorist attack has somehow led to the point of invading a country which wasn't even involved in the original attack - surely in total breach of international law. Not to mention the abandonment of human rights in detention centres for suspected terrorists.
Put the Bush administration in the Israeli government's place and I doubt the outcome would be much more pretty. There are two sides to this story, and branding one side 'sub-human scum' doesn't seem very intelligent or helpful to me. That's all I'm saying.
The family of the 23 year old American girl who was killed by a bulldozer a couple of days ago have released the emails she sent home. They are incredibly moving; the sort of thing that leaves you confused as to whether you should be angry or upset.
www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,916299,00.html
www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,916299,00.html
loki wrote:
> Really? What about Bloody Sunday? Or the time that the Bristish Army
> shot indescriminantly into the crowd at a Cork football match, killing
> a dozen or so people and injuring scores more. Including one of the
> players? Do you think they had good intel that the footballer was a
> terrorist? Or that they knew that entire sections of the crowd
> deserved to be shot?
An isolated incident for which there have been numerous inquiries into the matter - still raging today. Light's post about use of vetos only serves to reinforce my view.
> Really? What about Bloody Sunday? Or the time that the Bristish Army
> shot indescriminantly into the crowd at a Cork football match, killing
> a dozen or so people and injuring scores more. Including one of the
> players? Do you think they had good intel that the footballer was a
> terrorist? Or that they knew that entire sections of the crowd
> deserved to be shot?
An isolated incident for which there have been numerous inquiries into the matter - still raging today. Light's post about use of vetos only serves to reinforce my view.
loki,
Those are two incidents, although 2 is two too many I'm sure I can list you a lot of times when the Israeli 'Peace-Keepers' have stormed in on refugee camps and killed loads of people, and even then stayed there for days on end.. and not let anyone in until they've done the cleaning
Those are two incidents, although 2 is two too many I'm sure I can list you a lot of times when the Israeli 'Peace-Keepers' have stormed in on refugee camps and killed loads of people, and even then stayed there for days on end.. and not let anyone in until they've done the cleaning
Unbeliever wrote:
> Has Britain been sending tanks/bulldozers into Ireland and killing
> innocent civilians as well as displacing innocent people or targeting
> suspected terrorists with their intel and then going in and, more
> often than not, taking them out?
>
> The latter.
Really? What about Bloody Sunday? Or the time that the Bristish Army shot indescriminantly into the crowd at a Cork football match, killing a dozen or so people and injuring scores more. Including one of the players? Do you think they had good intel that the footballer was a terrorist? Or that they knew that entire sections of the crowd deserved to be shot?
> Has Britain been sending tanks/bulldozers into Ireland and killing
> innocent civilians as well as displacing innocent people or targeting
> suspected terrorists with their intel and then going in and, more
> often than not, taking them out?
>
> The latter.
Really? What about Bloody Sunday? Or the time that the Bristish Army shot indescriminantly into the crowd at a Cork football match, killing a dozen or so people and injuring scores more. Including one of the players? Do you think they had good intel that the footballer was a terrorist? Or that they knew that entire sections of the crowd deserved to be shot?
It was a very enlightening read though. I may search this whole report out - I am still of the opinion that both sides have committed terrible injustices against the other, and only a dual regime-change and decades of stability can heal the rift.
Erm, didn't Bush and Blair make it quite clear that once the Palestinians elect this PM that they'll unveil the roadmap for publication, and get down to it ?
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