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Another man, in another time, gave this speech;
"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who's acutally in the arena, whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming, but who goes actually to do the deeds, who spends himself in a worthy cause, but at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worse, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that he plays fairly, never to be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
That man was President Theodore Roosevelt.
The same can be said of this moment in history where we are literally weeks away from a war, or a new peace.
Bear in mind that the USA is not George Bush, that the UK is not Tony Blair, that both countries are made up of millions of people. Whatever their reasoning, both countries cannot be faulted for actually bringing the issue of Iraq to the attention of everyone. All that remains now is victory or defeat, problem is that no one is quite sure what either means in this situation....
"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who's acutally in the arena, whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming, but who goes actually to do the deeds, who spends himself in a worthy cause, but at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worse, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that he plays fairly, never to be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
That man was President Theodore Roosevelt.
The same can be said of this moment in history where we are literally weeks away from a war, or a new peace.
Bear in mind that the USA is not George Bush, that the UK is not Tony Blair, that both countries are made up of millions of people. Whatever their reasoning, both countries cannot be faulted for actually bringing the issue of Iraq to the attention of everyone. All that remains now is victory or defeat, problem is that no one is quite sure what either means in this situation....
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They can matter.
Not lone internet voices, but a unified group of rational, calm-speaking people that do not want to lynch Bush & Blair but make them realise that by ignoring the population, they are placing themselves at risk.
The anti-war demo wasn't the usual suspects of masked eco-warrior morons, it was me, my mum, pensioners, middle-class, working class - and it's global.
We do have a voice, we do matter. We do not have to idly sit by and watch the people elected to serve YOU in a country belonging to YOU act against our wishes.
Prime Ministers exist to serve our wishes, not the other way around. People seem to forget that. But there comes a time, be it anti-war demos or poll tax riots or even emails sent to mates who sent to mates when our voices become too loud to ignore.
1 person can make a difference, by galvanising an apathetic or disinterested public.
Ghandi overthrew the British Empire through non-violent protest, that little black girl that refused to sit on the blacks-only section of a bus in Mississipi, the guy standing against tanks in Tianneman Square.
It just takes a belief and a desire to act upon those beliefs rather than merely sitting back and saying "Well there's nothing I can do", because to feel strongly yet do nothing is to waste what rights and privileges we do have.
We're about to go to war with Iraq to "free the people".
Well part of that freedom is the right to say "This is no longer working and does not serve my interests".
When a Prime Minister ignores the public and has his own cabinet threaten to resign and call him "reckless", then the 1st signs of change appear.
All it takes is 1 person.
Write your feelings in an email and send them to someone, asking them to add their feelings and send it along.
Get people interested, make them take a side because passive observers are nothing at the end of the day.
Not lone internet voices, but a unified group of rational, calm-speaking people that do not want to lynch Bush & Blair but make them realise that by ignoring the population, they are placing themselves at risk.
The anti-war demo wasn't the usual suspects of masked eco-warrior morons, it was me, my mum, pensioners, middle-class, working class - and it's global.
We do have a voice, we do matter. We do not have to idly sit by and watch the people elected to serve YOU in a country belonging to YOU act against our wishes.
Prime Ministers exist to serve our wishes, not the other way around. People seem to forget that. But there comes a time, be it anti-war demos or poll tax riots or even emails sent to mates who sent to mates when our voices become too loud to ignore.
1 person can make a difference, by galvanising an apathetic or disinterested public.
Ghandi overthrew the British Empire through non-violent protest, that little black girl that refused to sit on the blacks-only section of a bus in Mississipi, the guy standing against tanks in Tianneman Square.
It just takes a belief and a desire to act upon those beliefs rather than merely sitting back and saying "Well there's nothing I can do", because to feel strongly yet do nothing is to waste what rights and privileges we do have.
We're about to go to war with Iraq to "free the people".
Well part of that freedom is the right to say "This is no longer working and does not serve my interests".
When a Prime Minister ignores the public and has his own cabinet threaten to resign and call him "reckless", then the 1st signs of change appear.
All it takes is 1 person.
Write your feelings in an email and send them to someone, asking them to add their feelings and send it along.
Get people interested, make them take a side because passive observers are nothing at the end of the day.
Star Fury wrote:
> Blank wrote:
> ...to all intents and purposes they are.
>
> Okay, do you agree with how Tony Blair is handling this ? I don't
> think so, and neither do a lot of people. Same with America, many do
> not like what Bush is doing, me included.
>
> Until people can seperate a nation from it's leaders then any chance
> of an anti war movement getting widespread support can be forgotten.
You just don't get it. Our views don't matter.
> Blank wrote:
> ...to all intents and purposes they are.
>
> Okay, do you agree with how Tony Blair is handling this ? I don't
> think so, and neither do a lot of people. Same with America, many do
> not like what Bush is doing, me included.
>
> Until people can seperate a nation from it's leaders then any chance
> of an anti war movement getting widespread support can be forgotten.
You just don't get it. Our views don't matter.
This whole situation brings us back to the words of Obi Wan Kenobi:
"Who is more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
Up to you, it could be interesting to see what you think when put in this context.
"Who is more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
Up to you, it could be interesting to see what you think when put in this context.
That previous post is, of course, inresponse to this:
> Somebody suggested something today and I'm honestly, 100% seriously
> considering it.
> Should Blair decide to wage war without the support of his country
> (even his ministers have revolted and Claire Short threatened
> resignation) and without a UN Resolution, we are in breach of
> International Law.
> And anybody, *anybody* can bring charges against Blair for war
> crimes.
>
> Why not me? Why not you?
> You hear all the time that 1 person should make their voice heard. So
> what's to stop a bloke that genuinely believes we are lying, murderous
> hypocrites from filing charges against Tony Blair for the illegal
> decleration of war without UN support?
> Somebody suggested something today and I'm honestly, 100% seriously
> considering it.
> Should Blair decide to wage war without the support of his country
> (even his ministers have revolted and Claire Short threatened
> resignation) and without a UN Resolution, we are in breach of
> International Law.
> And anybody, *anybody* can bring charges against Blair for war
> crimes.
>
> Why not me? Why not you?
> You hear all the time that 1 person should make their voice heard. So
> what's to stop a bloke that genuinely believes we are lying, murderous
> hypocrites from filing charges against Tony Blair for the illegal
> decleration of war without UN support?
Absolutely.
I don't know about you, but I think that if a reasonsable team of civilians could be put together, I'd definitely be a part of it.
Yourself, Goatboy?
Yourself, Goatboy?
Oh for f....
I wrote out a massive post and it wouldnt let me post a link, I hit go back and it wiped the message.
I wrote out a massive post and it wouldnt let me post a link, I hit go back and it wiped the message.
Blank wrote:
> ...to all intents and purposes they are.
Okay, do you agree with how Tony Blair is handling this ? I don't think so, and neither do a lot of people. Same with America, many do not like what Bush is doing, me included.
Until people can seperate a nation from it's leaders then any chance of an anti war movement getting widespread support can be forgotten.
> ...to all intents and purposes they are.
Okay, do you agree with how Tony Blair is handling this ? I don't think so, and neither do a lot of people. Same with America, many do not like what Bush is doing, me included.
Until people can seperate a nation from it's leaders then any chance of an anti war movement getting widespread support can be forgotten.
Star Fury wrote:
> Bear in mind that the USA is not George Bush, that the UK is not Tony
> Blair
...to all intents and purposes they are.
> Bear in mind that the USA is not George Bush, that the UK is not Tony
> Blair
...to all intents and purposes they are.
But thats the point I made, they may not be doing this right, but it's at least got everyones attention, and one way or another it will be solved this time, for us, for the Iraqi people, for Saddam, and everyone else inbetween.
Whether or not we'd be in breach of international law is up for debate, 1441 made no secret of it's intentions and consequences, but nations still signed up for it. Even so, there are many more people who should be brought before trial at large - Mugabe for one - but never will be.
As much as I'd like to agree with you, there is nothing coming, in the same way that those who marched in London claimed it would lead to peace, because thats not how it works anymore.
Even the government ministers/secretaries threatening to resign are rather short sighted, surely them leaving just clears tha ranks of the dissenters in the government leaving their positions open to be filled by someone more agreeable ? If they disagree with the government policy then far better they oppose from within the system than outside it.
Whether or not we'd be in breach of international law is up for debate, 1441 made no secret of it's intentions and consequences, but nations still signed up for it. Even so, there are many more people who should be brought before trial at large - Mugabe for one - but never will be.
As much as I'd like to agree with you, there is nothing coming, in the same way that those who marched in London claimed it would lead to peace, because thats not how it works anymore.
Even the government ministers/secretaries threatening to resign are rather short sighted, surely them leaving just clears tha ranks of the dissenters in the government leaving their positions open to be filled by someone more agreeable ? If they disagree with the government policy then far better they oppose from within the system than outside it.
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