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Just random thoughts here. Feel free to make your views of it known.
Right I will not post any of my views on the "should we go to war" etc but something got me thinking.
We are told that America and the UK will go to war without the UN backing, others like Russia are against it too.
A while back there were peace marches all over Britain and the rest of the world.
Now since then I have seen very little in the way of anti-war protests. Have people just given in and accepted it?
If I felt as strongly as some folk seemed to feel about it I would try do something more, surely there are plenty of ways the thousands who are against it could get there point across. Look at the fire strikes, truckers protests over fuel costs etc.
I am all for peaceful marches but maybe to get the point across something that hammers the point home to those making the decisions on war should be carried out.
Like a mass protest in London where people just bring the main city to a standstill?
Just seems odd to me that people say they are totally against it but don't do much to show it.
Right I will not post any of my views on the "should we go to war" etc but something got me thinking.
We are told that America and the UK will go to war without the UN backing, others like Russia are against it too.
A while back there were peace marches all over Britain and the rest of the world.
Now since then I have seen very little in the way of anti-war protests. Have people just given in and accepted it?
If I felt as strongly as some folk seemed to feel about it I would try do something more, surely there are plenty of ways the thousands who are against it could get there point across. Look at the fire strikes, truckers protests over fuel costs etc.
I am all for peaceful marches but maybe to get the point across something that hammers the point home to those making the decisions on war should be carried out.
Like a mass protest in London where people just bring the main city to a standstill?
Just seems odd to me that people say they are totally against it but don't do much to show it.
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Flanders wrote:
> I work with a bunch of complete morons - all convinced that war is the
> only way - totally blinkered but they all read the Sun - what can we
> expect ?
Plenty of people who read a hell of a lot more than the Sun are convinced of the need for war, and there are plenty who oppose war based solely on media coverage. It's interesting how you see morons as the people who support war, when you're ruling out war yourself. Surely that is blinkered too, no ?
> The do not listen to what people like Hans Blix have to say - they
> don't watch the news - they just get all their info from stupid
> tabloids.
In all honesty, when UN members do not listen to Hans Blix do you expect others too ? Blix omitted the Iraqi UAV's from his verbal report on Friday yet doing so was a major omission.
Pro war. Anti war. We're all divided and thats not a good position to be in on something this important. In all likelihood the USA will launch a unilateral war because it does not believe unity is possible, even now the divisions across the world are doing damage, and this is not just the fault of one group, but of all involved.
It took a massive loss of life to even get Iraq back onto the media's attention list. Normal Iraqi's have been dying for 12 years because of sanctions, and because of Saddam Hussein's manipulation of them. Again, no one element is solely to blame.
The United Nations was set up to be effective when, surprise surprise, it's united. Want to lift sanctions on Iraq ? You need unity, and with Saddam in place that won't happen.
One thing that I think we should all think about is how much do we really know about Iraq and it's people, and their situation. I don't mean just selected sound bytes, press information, scaremongering and propogande, but real info. Because in the end they're real people, like you and me. Here's just a few bits of info from TIME magazine this week,
*1/4 primary age children never go to school.
*The average slary is $5
*Internet access is available at only 26 public locations and costs $1 an hour, and is heavily censored.
*Literacy rates dropped from 89% in 1985 to 57% 1998
*Child mortality is 133 deaths per 100 born.
*Life Expectancy is just 56 years.
Even that alone should give you some idea of life in Iraq. Again, brought on by sanctions and Saddam's regime.
Some people are looking at this from the religion viewpoint, that it's the christians verus the muslims. It isn't. Since when did religion become the definiting factor of a person ? It's one part of them, but not what matters most. Given chance, any religion can be used for any ends.
In the final analysis, we will go to war because so many could not compromise and insisted on not backing down, and again this fault lies on both sides.
Personally, I want to see Saddam removed, and I don't think a mass invasion is the best way to do this. Why ? Ever seen Blackhawk down, or one of the few people that read the book before the movie even began to be filmed ? That's why. Coupled with today's interview on Sky News with a defector from the Republican Guard. He escaped 10 days ago and is now with the Kurds in a safe location. He has revealed that, to his knowledge, Iraqi units are ready to hold Baghdad to the last, to use everything including chemical weapons to defend the capital. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying we should have no war, I'm saying that the moment the UN's unity was lost war became one of few options open.
Peace comes from unity, not from who can shout the loudest. True peace comes when all want it, not being pressured into it. Again, bear in mind this is my opinion on this.
> I work with a bunch of complete morons - all convinced that war is the
> only way - totally blinkered but they all read the Sun - what can we
> expect ?
Plenty of people who read a hell of a lot more than the Sun are convinced of the need for war, and there are plenty who oppose war based solely on media coverage. It's interesting how you see morons as the people who support war, when you're ruling out war yourself. Surely that is blinkered too, no ?
> The do not listen to what people like Hans Blix have to say - they
> don't watch the news - they just get all their info from stupid
> tabloids.
In all honesty, when UN members do not listen to Hans Blix do you expect others too ? Blix omitted the Iraqi UAV's from his verbal report on Friday yet doing so was a major omission.
Pro war. Anti war. We're all divided and thats not a good position to be in on something this important. In all likelihood the USA will launch a unilateral war because it does not believe unity is possible, even now the divisions across the world are doing damage, and this is not just the fault of one group, but of all involved.
It took a massive loss of life to even get Iraq back onto the media's attention list. Normal Iraqi's have been dying for 12 years because of sanctions, and because of Saddam Hussein's manipulation of them. Again, no one element is solely to blame.
The United Nations was set up to be effective when, surprise surprise, it's united. Want to lift sanctions on Iraq ? You need unity, and with Saddam in place that won't happen.
One thing that I think we should all think about is how much do we really know about Iraq and it's people, and their situation. I don't mean just selected sound bytes, press information, scaremongering and propogande, but real info. Because in the end they're real people, like you and me. Here's just a few bits of info from TIME magazine this week,
*1/4 primary age children never go to school.
*The average slary is $5
*Internet access is available at only 26 public locations and costs $1 an hour, and is heavily censored.
*Literacy rates dropped from 89% in 1985 to 57% 1998
*Child mortality is 133 deaths per 100 born.
*Life Expectancy is just 56 years.
Even that alone should give you some idea of life in Iraq. Again, brought on by sanctions and Saddam's regime.
Some people are looking at this from the religion viewpoint, that it's the christians verus the muslims. It isn't. Since when did religion become the definiting factor of a person ? It's one part of them, but not what matters most. Given chance, any religion can be used for any ends.
In the final analysis, we will go to war because so many could not compromise and insisted on not backing down, and again this fault lies on both sides.
Personally, I want to see Saddam removed, and I don't think a mass invasion is the best way to do this. Why ? Ever seen Blackhawk down, or one of the few people that read the book before the movie even began to be filmed ? That's why. Coupled with today's interview on Sky News with a defector from the Republican Guard. He escaped 10 days ago and is now with the Kurds in a safe location. He has revealed that, to his knowledge, Iraqi units are ready to hold Baghdad to the last, to use everything including chemical weapons to defend the capital. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying we should have no war, I'm saying that the moment the UN's unity was lost war became one of few options open.
Peace comes from unity, not from who can shout the loudest. True peace comes when all want it, not being pressured into it. Again, bear in mind this is my opinion on this.
Damn TA made us go to the town centre last weekend to do some recruiting when there was an anti war march going on
Lets just say that didn't go down too well concidering we had more support than them;)
Lets just say that didn't go down too well concidering we had more support than them;)
All it needs is 1 Iraqi soilder with balls the size of footballs to kill hussain and free the Iraqi people of him. Obiously they'd then probably be killed themselves, but it would be a real sign of heroicness!
I just feel sorry for those 'normal' Iraqi soliders who probably don't like Saddam that much and who, because of the decisions of both sides' leaders, are manning certain facilities right now and in 10 days time are going to blow off the face of the earth.
Maybe it is a bit harsh, but I do get the impression many anti war protestors do so because war is a bad thing. They don't seem to appreciate that sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils, and without the benefit of hindsight that's a very difficult choice, and one that can never be proved right or wrong.
Simon Says wrote:
> Surely you're not suggesting that the all the anti-war sheep march
> every day.
That seems a bit harsh, when the pro-warists sleep their way into mass murder.
But as the saying goes: 'War is the father of all'. Every border has been forged by bloodshed, so it's no surprise to me that as I live and breathe another war is ready to get the green light.
In everyday life all I hear is "violence is never the answer", but when it comes to countries needing to solve an international problem, violence quickly becomes the best answer.
I sometimes get the urge to sort out my problems with violence, but if I did I'd be locked away. Yet for some, those at the highest level, violence is easy, and they even get others to do their dirty-work for them.
> Surely you're not suggesting that the all the anti-war sheep march
> every day.
That seems a bit harsh, when the pro-warists sleep their way into mass murder.
But as the saying goes: 'War is the father of all'. Every border has been forged by bloodshed, so it's no surprise to me that as I live and breathe another war is ready to get the green light.
In everyday life all I hear is "violence is never the answer", but when it comes to countries needing to solve an international problem, violence quickly becomes the best answer.
I sometimes get the urge to sort out my problems with violence, but if I did I'd be locked away. Yet for some, those at the highest level, violence is easy, and they even get others to do their dirty-work for them.
Flanders wrote:
> I work with a bunch of complete morons - all convinced that war is the
> only way - totally blinkered but they all read the Sun - what can we
> expect ?
So do I. Idiotic automatons who haven't got a thought of their own in their feeble minds.
> I work with a bunch of complete morons - all convinced that war is the
> only way - totally blinkered but they all read the Sun - what can we
> expect ?
So do I. Idiotic automatons who haven't got a thought of their own in their feeble minds.
Reasons for War
1) Iraq has weapons of mass destruction
2) He is a tyrant and kills his own people (Acid baths, beatings, chemical weapons, rape by glass)
However, why are we concentrating on Iraq?
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction but Korea now has nuclear weapons, France until only recently were testing nuclear weapons at sea, India and Pakistan almost had a nucular war between each other last year...but above all, the USA have these weapons themselves!!
Are we going to invade Iraq because of the lack of human rights? No...why...because then surely we'd have to do the same to Mugabe in Zimbarbwe (Spellings obviously not a strong point of mine!!)
1) Iraq has weapons of mass destruction
2) He is a tyrant and kills his own people (Acid baths, beatings, chemical weapons, rape by glass)
However, why are we concentrating on Iraq?
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction but Korea now has nuclear weapons, France until only recently were testing nuclear weapons at sea, India and Pakistan almost had a nucular war between each other last year...but above all, the USA have these weapons themselves!!
Are we going to invade Iraq because of the lack of human rights? No...why...because then surely we'd have to do the same to Mugabe in Zimbarbwe (Spellings obviously not a strong point of mine!!)
I must say that what Hans Blix had to say did make me reconsider my opinion, and made me feel a little more uneasy about the prospect of war.
What made me feel even more uneasy about the prospect of war was Bush saying that he didn't need anyone's permission to go to war. That made the war seem more inevitable and more like a war for war's sake, if that makes any sense.
What made me feel even more uneasy about the prospect of war was Bush saying that he didn't need anyone's permission to go to war. That made the war seem more inevitable and more like a war for war's sake, if that makes any sense.
I work with a bunch of complete morons - all convinced that war is the only way - totally blinkered but they all read the Sun - what can we expect ?
All they say is you can't trust saddam and the only way to resolve the situation is to have a nice war.
The do not listen to what people like Hans Blix have to say - they don't watch the news - they just get all their info from stupid tabloids.
Gahh...
All they say is you can't trust saddam and the only way to resolve the situation is to have a nice war.
The do not listen to what people like Hans Blix have to say - they don't watch the news - they just get all their info from stupid tabloids.
Gahh...
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