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I spoke to a lecturer over in the media section of a neighbouring university recently and he told me something rather startling. He said to me that he believes the next gen console war could be the end for the Playstation brand. He said it could also mean problems for HD-DVD and then he went on to explain why…
But how on earth can Sony topple from its perch? I mean really? The mighty Playstation Company produce less software than the Nintendo and Microsoft but the high sales of their format is just unbelievable.
But is that about to change?
Sony's new era is supposed to be great, and it looks it. Sony's E3 show defeated Nintendo's hastily put together production and Microsoft's grand celebrity unveiling. The games looked better, Sony themselves were more sophisticated and they didn't need a hobbit to tell everyone they are the best. The PSP highlights their new venture into handheld gaming and it is moving at a swift pace.
It is impossible to say Sony are losing, the PSP may not have had the impact it should have had but it is still selling amazingly and the PS2 is the run away leader world-wide.
But the warning signs are here.
Nintendo's DS has upset Sony... upset Sony a lot. Sony, when first unveiling the PSP, did not expect to go head to head with a new Nintendo handheld right from the word go.
Sony hoped that the PSP would outshine the GBA SP so much it was bound to win due to its fantastic graphics, brand name and look, regardless of the price. And this was rather likely. But the DS has confused matters, it is a new competitor, cutting projected sales and its low price of £99 has meant Sony have had to cut the planned price for the PSP. This means the PSP will make a far greater loss at the beginning than Sony originally intended.
In Europe and America the PSP could well beat the DS. It has had a good start in America and pre-orders are high in Europe. But in Japan it is a different story.
In Japan Nintendo's DS has firmly beaten the PSP. PSP is doing okay; it is selling solidly and is unlikely to go anywhere. But the DS is beating it by 2 million consoles overall and outsells the PSP by about 20,000 consoles every week. Why? Well the Japanese market is in a slump and the DS not only tries to rejuvenate things with its new ideas but there are also a load of non-games, appealing to those Japanese folk that buy consoles for random reasons like "gentle brain exercises". The DS is even outselling the Playstation 2.
The Nintendo Revolution, although unknown for the moment, could well do something similar. It'll be cheaper than the PS3, much cheaper, and it'll have random Japanese games (like the gentle brain exercises) that will mean the Revolution could do "A DS"... as in dominate Japan. The Japanese market is volatile and easily changes, Nintendo could well take dominance back in the home ground.
But not in Europe and America. Nintendo could well rule the Japanese roost again but they are far from dominating the west. No, the new threat is Microsoft.
The X-box, in the sense of weekly sales, is beating the PS2 in America and Europe. It makes sense as the PS2 has been out 2 years longer. But the X-box franchise has made a MUCH larger name for itself over the last few years, taking supporters from the Sony encampment. Sony has to take this threat seriously. The PS3 is a VERY expensive console to produce, it needs to sell around £500 to make a profit and Sony are gonna go for around £400 and make a loss. Simply so they don’t upset the punters.
But Microsoft are set to have their system priced even lower AND they have a vital head start. Sony will have to re-consider pricing if they want to keep up. If they do cut the price then the PS3's first year losses will be massive. But if they don't they'll let Microsoft in.
Sony are facing a problem. They are at risk of losing their vital monopoly, vital because Sony make losses (at the start anyway) on each system they produce. Sony does not produce the software of Microsoft and Nintendo. Nintendo do not need to sell at the rate of the Playstation because Nintendo’s mass of software sells so well on its system (people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games). The same, although to a lesser extent, applies to Microsoft (people buy the X-box for Live and Halo).
The Playstation brand is strong. Yet at the moment Nintendo are the number one games company in Japan and Microsoft are making a larger name for itself year in year out. As my lecturer friend put it “Nintendo are hot right now in the east and Microsoft are hot right now in the west… Sony are falling out of favour”.
Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the PS3 simply gonna destroy all?
Here’s to the future
Dringo.
The conspiracy theorist inside me can not help but mention that Microsoft are making it possible to send messages to DS through the 360 and have allowed their company, RARE WARE, to develop DS games. To say the two are working together to defeat Sony is a ridiculous story to spin, but it is interesting to see these rivals getting along so well.
But how on earth can Sony topple from its perch? I mean really? The mighty Playstation Company produce less software than the Nintendo and Microsoft but the high sales of their format is just unbelievable.
But is that about to change?
Sony's new era is supposed to be great, and it looks it. Sony's E3 show defeated Nintendo's hastily put together production and Microsoft's grand celebrity unveiling. The games looked better, Sony themselves were more sophisticated and they didn't need a hobbit to tell everyone they are the best. The PSP highlights their new venture into handheld gaming and it is moving at a swift pace.
It is impossible to say Sony are losing, the PSP may not have had the impact it should have had but it is still selling amazingly and the PS2 is the run away leader world-wide.
But the warning signs are here.
Nintendo's DS has upset Sony... upset Sony a lot. Sony, when first unveiling the PSP, did not expect to go head to head with a new Nintendo handheld right from the word go.
Sony hoped that the PSP would outshine the GBA SP so much it was bound to win due to its fantastic graphics, brand name and look, regardless of the price. And this was rather likely. But the DS has confused matters, it is a new competitor, cutting projected sales and its low price of £99 has meant Sony have had to cut the planned price for the PSP. This means the PSP will make a far greater loss at the beginning than Sony originally intended.
In Europe and America the PSP could well beat the DS. It has had a good start in America and pre-orders are high in Europe. But in Japan it is a different story.
In Japan Nintendo's DS has firmly beaten the PSP. PSP is doing okay; it is selling solidly and is unlikely to go anywhere. But the DS is beating it by 2 million consoles overall and outsells the PSP by about 20,000 consoles every week. Why? Well the Japanese market is in a slump and the DS not only tries to rejuvenate things with its new ideas but there are also a load of non-games, appealing to those Japanese folk that buy consoles for random reasons like "gentle brain exercises". The DS is even outselling the Playstation 2.
The Nintendo Revolution, although unknown for the moment, could well do something similar. It'll be cheaper than the PS3, much cheaper, and it'll have random Japanese games (like the gentle brain exercises) that will mean the Revolution could do "A DS"... as in dominate Japan. The Japanese market is volatile and easily changes, Nintendo could well take dominance back in the home ground.
But not in Europe and America. Nintendo could well rule the Japanese roost again but they are far from dominating the west. No, the new threat is Microsoft.
The X-box, in the sense of weekly sales, is beating the PS2 in America and Europe. It makes sense as the PS2 has been out 2 years longer. But the X-box franchise has made a MUCH larger name for itself over the last few years, taking supporters from the Sony encampment. Sony has to take this threat seriously. The PS3 is a VERY expensive console to produce, it needs to sell around £500 to make a profit and Sony are gonna go for around £400 and make a loss. Simply so they don’t upset the punters.
But Microsoft are set to have their system priced even lower AND they have a vital head start. Sony will have to re-consider pricing if they want to keep up. If they do cut the price then the PS3's first year losses will be massive. But if they don't they'll let Microsoft in.
Sony are facing a problem. They are at risk of losing their vital monopoly, vital because Sony make losses (at the start anyway) on each system they produce. Sony does not produce the software of Microsoft and Nintendo. Nintendo do not need to sell at the rate of the Playstation because Nintendo’s mass of software sells so well on its system (people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games). The same, although to a lesser extent, applies to Microsoft (people buy the X-box for Live and Halo).
The Playstation brand is strong. Yet at the moment Nintendo are the number one games company in Japan and Microsoft are making a larger name for itself year in year out. As my lecturer friend put it “Nintendo are hot right now in the east and Microsoft are hot right now in the west… Sony are falling out of favour”.
Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the PS3 simply gonna destroy all?
Here’s to the future
Dringo.
The conspiracy theorist inside me can not help but mention that Microsoft are making it possible to send messages to DS through the 360 and have allowed their company, RARE WARE, to develop DS games. To say the two are working together to defeat Sony is a ridiculous story to spin, but it is interesting to see these rivals getting along so well.
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You are such a dolt, Dringo. Still, the world needs people like you to keep the net going. And the first para made me laugh.
I think we know from recent history that a headstart means nothing.
As Strafio said, the Dreamcast had a head start and died so badly that Sega withdrew from the hardware market; and that had the advantage of snazzier graphics.
Conversely, Sony had a head start with the PS2, and both the Xbox and Gamecube are technically superior, yet the PS2 continued to out-sell both.
Currently, Sony already have a massive share of the market. This time, though, it is very likely that they will also have the superior hardware.
Whether or not PS3 lives up to all of Sony's claims remains to be seen, but we already know that it has an edge on the 360 in terms of basic specification - there's no denying that. As for the Revolution, no-one but Nintendo knows at the moment - though basing judgement on historical facts, it's unlikely that Nintendo will push the boat out in terms of hardware.
Sony have "won" previous battles while only having various parts of the puzzle in their possession. This time, they potentially have the complete article. Their success (or otherwise) all depends how they play the game. But given their history in the games industry, who would doubt them?
Certainly initial signs are extremely good - they hit Microsoft with a broadside at E3, and it seems that the entire industry is currently raving about their new baby.
Everyone who has so far commented on the hardware has said that it's much easier to deal with than the PS2 was. While some of the E3 footage was pre-rendered, there was a lot of very real stuff in there too. For example, the Unreal Engine was ported to the machine in just a couple of months; the demo produced with it was running on PS3 hardware, and was interactive - so it's entirely plausible to assume that in-game performance will be similar.
Even the now infamous Killzone 2 demo is, according to the developer, a relatively accurate simulation of what they believe they will be able to acheive, having had access to a dev kit for some time.
I've no doubt the gaming landscape will change with the next generation. But at the moment, I think things will go the way of last General Election.
Sony (Labour) will still be running things, but with a reduced majority. Microsoft (Conservative) will begin to make a lot more sense, but still not quite be 'with it' or entirely fashionable, while Nintendo (Liberals) will be closing the gap, but still in third place.
As Strafio said, the Dreamcast had a head start and died so badly that Sega withdrew from the hardware market; and that had the advantage of snazzier graphics.
Conversely, Sony had a head start with the PS2, and both the Xbox and Gamecube are technically superior, yet the PS2 continued to out-sell both.
Currently, Sony already have a massive share of the market. This time, though, it is very likely that they will also have the superior hardware.
Whether or not PS3 lives up to all of Sony's claims remains to be seen, but we already know that it has an edge on the 360 in terms of basic specification - there's no denying that. As for the Revolution, no-one but Nintendo knows at the moment - though basing judgement on historical facts, it's unlikely that Nintendo will push the boat out in terms of hardware.
Sony have "won" previous battles while only having various parts of the puzzle in their possession. This time, they potentially have the complete article. Their success (or otherwise) all depends how they play the game. But given their history in the games industry, who would doubt them?
Certainly initial signs are extremely good - they hit Microsoft with a broadside at E3, and it seems that the entire industry is currently raving about their new baby.
Everyone who has so far commented on the hardware has said that it's much easier to deal with than the PS2 was. While some of the E3 footage was pre-rendered, there was a lot of very real stuff in there too. For example, the Unreal Engine was ported to the machine in just a couple of months; the demo produced with it was running on PS3 hardware, and was interactive - so it's entirely plausible to assume that in-game performance will be similar.
Even the now infamous Killzone 2 demo is, according to the developer, a relatively accurate simulation of what they believe they will be able to acheive, having had access to a dev kit for some time.
I've no doubt the gaming landscape will change with the next generation. But at the moment, I think things will go the way of last General Election.
Sony (Labour) will still be running things, but with a reduced majority. Microsoft (Conservative) will begin to make a lot more sense, but still not quite be 'with it' or entirely fashionable, while Nintendo (Liberals) will be closing the gap, but still in third place.
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> I didn't buy the mag, so I can't quote directly, but they said
> something like, "everyone expects the 360 to be spectacular, but
> to get graphics like this out of the PS2's ageing hardware is a
> remarkable feat".
It's this kind of thing that's making me doubt Microsoft a bit. Obviously a good headstart is one way to go about it, but I can't help but feel that things have been a bit rushed. The fact that a game for the PS2 can be considered more impressive than the same game on the 360 shows this.
Have Microsoft really taken that big of a step forward?
It also opens a big window of opportunity for Sony and Nintendo. They'll both be able to take a good long look at the good and bad points of the 360 - What the customers like, don't like, wish was there etc. Then they can adjust their designs accordingly to meet the desires of us gamers.
A big headstart won't play entirely in Microsoft's favour.
> I didn't buy the mag, so I can't quote directly, but they said
> something like, "everyone expects the 360 to be spectacular, but
> to get graphics like this out of the PS2's ageing hardware is a
> remarkable feat".
It's this kind of thing that's making me doubt Microsoft a bit. Obviously a good headstart is one way to go about it, but I can't help but feel that things have been a bit rushed. The fact that a game for the PS2 can be considered more impressive than the same game on the 360 shows this.
Have Microsoft really taken that big of a step forward?
It also opens a big window of opportunity for Sony and Nintendo. They'll both be able to take a good long look at the good and bad points of the 360 - What the customers like, don't like, wish was there etc. Then they can adjust their designs accordingly to meet the desires of us gamers.
A big headstart won't play entirely in Microsoft's favour.
Strafio wrote:
> What I'd say is that I haven't seen anything on the 360 that couldn't
> be done on current hardware with less detailed graphics
Interesting point.
I was leafing through the latest Edge in a local newsagents the other day, and was very surprised by what I read.
I can't recall the game, but it is to be available on both PS2 and 360, among others. And they actually said that the PS2 version was far more impressive.
I didn't buy the mag, so I can't quote directly, but they said something like, "everyone expects the 360 to be spectacular, but to get graphics like this out of the PS2's ageing hardware is a remarkable feat".
> What I'd say is that I haven't seen anything on the 360 that couldn't
> be done on current hardware with less detailed graphics
Interesting point.
I was leafing through the latest Edge in a local newsagents the other day, and was very surprised by what I read.
I can't recall the game, but it is to be available on both PS2 and 360, among others. And they actually said that the PS2 version was far more impressive.
I didn't buy the mag, so I can't quote directly, but they said something like, "everyone expects the 360 to be spectacular, but to get graphics like this out of the PS2's ageing hardware is a remarkable feat".
His red JAT "makeover" has passed its sell-by-date and has gone brown and mouldy.
Everything being said about the PS3 is everything we were saying about the PS2 about 5 years ago when I first came on here. There is one difference though. Despite all our criticisms being more or less "right", by the time the Xbox and Gamecube came out the PS2 had had a year to produce GTA3 and the war was over.
The Xbox came out expensive, the Gamecube came out with a tired ghost of the Nintendo and Rare team that had stormed the gaming world with their N64 classics.
Not sure what Nintendo have planned but what MS has looks fairly decent and they'll have a good headstart on Sony. What I'd say is that I haven't seen anything on the 360 that couldn't be done on current hardware with less detailed graphics, perhaps if Nintendo and Sony are holding back for a bigger step in gaming, perhaps the 360 is potentially the new Dreamcast?
Everything being said about the PS3 is everything we were saying about the PS2 about 5 years ago when I first came on here. There is one difference though. Despite all our criticisms being more or less "right", by the time the Xbox and Gamecube came out the PS2 had had a year to produce GTA3 and the war was over.
The Xbox came out expensive, the Gamecube came out with a tired ghost of the Nintendo and Rare team that had stormed the gaming world with their N64 classics.
Not sure what Nintendo have planned but what MS has looks fairly decent and they'll have a good headstart on Sony. What I'd say is that I haven't seen anything on the 360 that couldn't be done on current hardware with less detailed graphics, perhaps if Nintendo and Sony are holding back for a bigger step in gaming, perhaps the 360 is potentially the new Dreamcast?
Xzibit wrote:
> Bonus wrote:
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
>
> No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be
> 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
He said everyone's favouite second choice system, as in those who have a PS3 might get a Revolution as a second system.
How the hell do you know this though? Revolution could easily do a DS in Japan and outsell Sony in Japan. And this will almost certainly mean a Nintendo second place.
> Bonus wrote:
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
>
> No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be
> 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
He said everyone's favouite second choice system, as in those who have a PS3 might get a Revolution as a second system.
How the hell do you know this though? Revolution could easily do a DS in Japan and outsell Sony in Japan. And this will almost certainly mean a Nintendo second place.
Hefix - why are you a "newbie"?
Xzibit wrote:
> Bonus wrote:
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
>
> No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be
> 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
Not almost fact, but I think most people would agree with you.
1st and 2nd place might change (even 3rd!) though because at the end of the day anything could happen.
> Bonus wrote:
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
>
> No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be
> 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
Not almost fact, but I think most people would agree with you.
1st and 2nd place might change (even 3rd!) though because at the end of the day anything could happen.
Xzibit wrote:
> Bonus wrote:
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
>
> No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be
> 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
You can't posibly know that until all three consoles have been around for a decent period of time. You've never played any of them and nobody knows jack about the Revolution.
Speculate all you want, but I'll take it with a skip full of salt.
> Bonus wrote:
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
>
> No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be
> 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
You can't posibly know that until all three consoles have been around for a decent period of time. You've never played any of them and nobody knows jack about the Revolution.
Speculate all you want, but I'll take it with a skip full of salt.
Bonus wrote:
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
> And I see Nintendo's console being everyone's favourite 2nd choice
> system once they have the dough for the retro value and hopeful low
> price ;).
No way will Ninty be everyones 2nd choice, once again, it will be 1.PS3, 2. Xbox 360, 3. Nintendo Revolution. It's almost fact.
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