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Not on the two recent performances.
Just how hot and cold can a team blow? Knock United out of the FA Cup with a tremendous performance, then draw 1-1 with Ajax. Hammer Man City 5-1 with a footballing masterclass, and draw 0-0 with Ajax.
Sometimes, it just seems to me that a number of the Arsenal just can't be bothered. Fair enough, Ajax defended well in both games, with 11 men behind the ball most of the time. But they were never without their chances. And in both games, Arsenal seemed lethargic.
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it. But instead, we've played at a walking pace for most of the game, and consequently had many passes cut out.
All credit to Ajax, who were hassling and hurrying us - but we know that the team deals with that comfortably every week in the Premiership. The difference is that in the Prem, we play at a far higher pace, and that suits our game. The same attempts at cutting out our passes are made, but don't work because we're too quick. Slow it down, and things start going wrong.
It was a hard game for us, but it really shouldn't have been. We invited pressure constantly, with miss-placed passes all over the place (whether there was pressure from Ajax or not), and by not attacking the loose balls. Every time, Arsenal players were guilty of waiting for the ball to come to them, rather than going and getting it - and every time, an Ajax player just stepped in and took it. That is both frustrating and unacceptable.
It's not as if we can use a hard game last Saturday as an excuse - we had that won after 19 minutes, and strolled the rest of it. This was just a dire performance. I don't know if Wenger tells them to play at that snails pace as a tactical switch, or if it's still some psychological hangover from previous CL campaigns, but it really needs to stop. We're used to playing a certain way, so go out and play that way - the minute your opponents make you change your tactics, they're halfway to winning the battle.
Arsenal played tonight like they were scared of conceding a goal, and I have to say that on the over-all performance, so was I - because I don't think we'd have gotten back into it.
Vieira and Cole were about the only two players worthy of wearing the shirt tonight. Keown uncharacteristically gave the ball away at practically every turn; Campbell was okay; Lauren was often guilty of ball-watching; Gilberto was almost non-existent; Pires tried but had no support; Wiltord started brightly but faded; Bergkamp and Henry had little or no service to feed off because of the dire midfield, and were therefore rendered irrelevant; and the subs didn't really have long enough to make any mark on the game.
At least Roma beat Valencia, so that keeps the group open - but for once I'd like to get through without needing to rely on the results of others. Now we absolutely must beat Roma at Highbury, and hope that Ajax can beat Valencia.
How different it might have been if they'd all got stuck in like we know they can. Once again, we've made a rod for our own back, and will have no-one to blame but ourselves if we fail to get through this group.
Just how hot and cold can a team blow? Knock United out of the FA Cup with a tremendous performance, then draw 1-1 with Ajax. Hammer Man City 5-1 with a footballing masterclass, and draw 0-0 with Ajax.
Sometimes, it just seems to me that a number of the Arsenal just can't be bothered. Fair enough, Ajax defended well in both games, with 11 men behind the ball most of the time. But they were never without their chances. And in both games, Arsenal seemed lethargic.
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it. But instead, we've played at a walking pace for most of the game, and consequently had many passes cut out.
All credit to Ajax, who were hassling and hurrying us - but we know that the team deals with that comfortably every week in the Premiership. The difference is that in the Prem, we play at a far higher pace, and that suits our game. The same attempts at cutting out our passes are made, but don't work because we're too quick. Slow it down, and things start going wrong.
It was a hard game for us, but it really shouldn't have been. We invited pressure constantly, with miss-placed passes all over the place (whether there was pressure from Ajax or not), and by not attacking the loose balls. Every time, Arsenal players were guilty of waiting for the ball to come to them, rather than going and getting it - and every time, an Ajax player just stepped in and took it. That is both frustrating and unacceptable.
It's not as if we can use a hard game last Saturday as an excuse - we had that won after 19 minutes, and strolled the rest of it. This was just a dire performance. I don't know if Wenger tells them to play at that snails pace as a tactical switch, or if it's still some psychological hangover from previous CL campaigns, but it really needs to stop. We're used to playing a certain way, so go out and play that way - the minute your opponents make you change your tactics, they're halfway to winning the battle.
Arsenal played tonight like they were scared of conceding a goal, and I have to say that on the over-all performance, so was I - because I don't think we'd have gotten back into it.
Vieira and Cole were about the only two players worthy of wearing the shirt tonight. Keown uncharacteristically gave the ball away at practically every turn; Campbell was okay; Lauren was often guilty of ball-watching; Gilberto was almost non-existent; Pires tried but had no support; Wiltord started brightly but faded; Bergkamp and Henry had little or no service to feed off because of the dire midfield, and were therefore rendered irrelevant; and the subs didn't really have long enough to make any mark on the game.
At least Roma beat Valencia, so that keeps the group open - but for once I'd like to get through without needing to rely on the results of others. Now we absolutely must beat Roma at Highbury, and hope that Ajax can beat Valencia.
How different it might have been if they'd all got stuck in like we know they can. Once again, we've made a rod for our own back, and will have no-one to blame but ourselves if we fail to get through this group.
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You can drop the sarcasm. The fact remains that competitive or not, your team has been able to play some absolutely dire football for four games in a row and have, by hook or by crook, been let off massively.
I'd wager if you'd been in a less "competitive" group, you'd be sat at the bottom of the table with very little to show for your flailing antics.
I'd wager if you'd been in a less "competitive" group, you'd be sat at the bottom of the table with very little to show for your flailing antics.
Insane Bartender wrote:
> So, having one one game in six, Arsenal deserve to be in the quarter
> finals?
Well, shucks, brainiac, tha's a toughie, ain't it? You jus sits thur fer a minute while I goes off and thinks about it fer a while...
For a start, we haven't won one game in six - we've won one in five, with one to go, which we are - in theory at least - perfectly capable of winning.
The object, as far as I understand it, is to finish in the top two of the group and progress to the next stage. You don't really gain anything at this stage, whether you lead the group by several points, one point, or get through in second place on goal difference.
Supposedly you might get an easier team for finishing top of the group, but after this there are - in theory - no easy teams left in the competition. So it's largely irrelevant.
So poor little idiot me would have to say "yes" - if no TWO other teams in the most competitive group have done better by the time all six games are played, of course they deserve to be in the quarter finals.
I's sorry if ma eejit logic is too stoopid fer y'all ta follow, but y'all know you's only wants us out in case yous has ta play us!
> So, having one one game in six, Arsenal deserve to be in the quarter
> finals?
Well, shucks, brainiac, tha's a toughie, ain't it? You jus sits thur fer a minute while I goes off and thinks about it fer a while...
For a start, we haven't won one game in six - we've won one in five, with one to go, which we are - in theory at least - perfectly capable of winning.
The object, as far as I understand it, is to finish in the top two of the group and progress to the next stage. You don't really gain anything at this stage, whether you lead the group by several points, one point, or get through in second place on goal difference.
Supposedly you might get an easier team for finishing top of the group, but after this there are - in theory - no easy teams left in the competition. So it's largely irrelevant.
So poor little idiot me would have to say "yes" - if no TWO other teams in the most competitive group have done better by the time all six games are played, of course they deserve to be in the quarter finals.
I's sorry if ma eejit logic is too stoopid fer y'all ta follow, but y'all know you's only wants us out in case yous has ta play us!
Possible qualification options, from Arsenal.com...
-----
Road to the quarter-finals - qualification explained
As Arsène Wenger predicted, Group B has been the tightest in Phase Two of this season's Champions League.
Arsenal's 1-1 draw with Roma on Tuesday night, allied to the same scoreline in the game between Ajax and Valencia in Amsterdam, has left all four teams with a chance of qualifying for the quarter-finals.
The final standings will depend upon the final Group B games on Wednesday, March 19. Arsenal travel to the Mestalla Stadium to face Valencia while Roma play host to Ajax.
Gunners fans will be mulling over the qualifying criteria in the coming week, so read on to find out exactly which permutations will take Arsenal through to the last eight or end their Champions League campaign...
ARSENAL WIN, AJAX WIN - Ajax and Arsenal qualify, Ajax win the group courtesy of their away goal in the 1-1 draw at Highbury
ARSENAL WIN, AJAX DRAW - Arsenal win group by two points, Ajax second
ARSENAL WIN, AJAX LOSE - Arsenal win group, Roma runners-up if they win two or more goals, Ajax runners-up if they lose by one goal
ARSENAL DRAW, AJAX WIN - Ajax win group by two points, Arsenal runners-up
ARSENAL DRAW, AJAX DRAW - Arsenal and Ajax qualify, Ajax win group courtesy of their away goal in the 1-1 draw at Highbury
ARSENAL DRAW, AJAX LOSE - Arsenal win group, Roma finish second*
ARSENAL LOSE, AJAX WIN - Ajax win group, Valencia runners-up
ARSENAL LOSE, AJAX DRAW - Valencia win group, Ajax runners-up
ARSENAL LOSE, AJAX LOSE - Valencia win group, Arsenal finish second*
* When three teams finish on equal points, standings are calculated from matches played between the three teams. Results involving the fourth team in the group are disregarded.
In conclusion, Arsenal will qualify for the quarter-finals regardless of the result in Rome if they win or draw in Valencia.
If the Gunners lose to the Spanish champions, they will still advance to the last eight if Roma beat Ajax. If Arsenal lose and Roma fail to win, Arsenal are out.
-----
Road to the quarter-finals - qualification explained
As Arsène Wenger predicted, Group B has been the tightest in Phase Two of this season's Champions League.
Arsenal's 1-1 draw with Roma on Tuesday night, allied to the same scoreline in the game between Ajax and Valencia in Amsterdam, has left all four teams with a chance of qualifying for the quarter-finals.
The final standings will depend upon the final Group B games on Wednesday, March 19. Arsenal travel to the Mestalla Stadium to face Valencia while Roma play host to Ajax.
Gunners fans will be mulling over the qualifying criteria in the coming week, so read on to find out exactly which permutations will take Arsenal through to the last eight or end their Champions League campaign...
ARSENAL WIN, AJAX WIN - Ajax and Arsenal qualify, Ajax win the group courtesy of their away goal in the 1-1 draw at Highbury
ARSENAL WIN, AJAX DRAW - Arsenal win group by two points, Ajax second
ARSENAL WIN, AJAX LOSE - Arsenal win group, Roma runners-up if they win two or more goals, Ajax runners-up if they lose by one goal
ARSENAL DRAW, AJAX WIN - Ajax win group by two points, Arsenal runners-up
ARSENAL DRAW, AJAX DRAW - Arsenal and Ajax qualify, Ajax win group courtesy of their away goal in the 1-1 draw at Highbury
ARSENAL DRAW, AJAX LOSE - Arsenal win group, Roma finish second*
ARSENAL LOSE, AJAX WIN - Ajax win group, Valencia runners-up
ARSENAL LOSE, AJAX DRAW - Valencia win group, Ajax runners-up
ARSENAL LOSE, AJAX LOSE - Valencia win group, Arsenal finish second*
* When three teams finish on equal points, standings are calculated from matches played between the three teams. Results involving the fourth team in the group are disregarded.
In conclusion, Arsenal will qualify for the quarter-finals regardless of the result in Rome if they win or draw in Valencia.
If the Gunners lose to the Spanish champions, they will still advance to the last eight if Roma beat Ajax. If Arsenal lose and Roma fail to win, Arsenal are out.
So, having one one game in six, Arsenal deserve to be in the quarter finals?
Insane Bartender wrote:
> That they can play like crap for the entirety of the theoretically
> more competitive second group phase and qualify with only one win
> makes a complete mockery of the whole Cup.
Hmm... surely the fact that it is more competitive should mean more groups as tight as Group B and fewer runaway leads? Though had we found our form, we probably would be runaway leaders. But if anything, this group is the truest reflection of a "more competitive second group phase".
Why not check the Group B table? While you'll get no argument from me that Arsenal's Champion's League form has been less than inspiring, they have just as much right to go through as anyone else.
No team in Group B has won more than one game, and we actually have a BETTER record than the supposed 'best team' in the group, Valencia. I'm not making any predictions for the last game of the group, but Valencia didn't beat us at Highbury, and so far in the CL this season, if anything, our away form has been marginally better than our home form.
> That they can play like crap for the entirety of the theoretically
> more competitive second group phase and qualify with only one win
> makes a complete mockery of the whole Cup.
Hmm... surely the fact that it is more competitive should mean more groups as tight as Group B and fewer runaway leads? Though had we found our form, we probably would be runaway leaders. But if anything, this group is the truest reflection of a "more competitive second group phase".
Why not check the Group B table? While you'll get no argument from me that Arsenal's Champion's League form has been less than inspiring, they have just as much right to go through as anyone else.
No team in Group B has won more than one game, and we actually have a BETTER record than the supposed 'best team' in the group, Valencia. I'm not making any predictions for the last game of the group, but Valencia didn't beat us at Highbury, and so far in the CL this season, if anything, our away form has been marginally better than our home form.
It's just ridiculous if you ask me.
That they can play like crap for the entirety of the theoretically more competitive second group phase and qualify with only one win makes a complete mockery of the whole Cup.
That they can play like crap for the entirety of the theoretically more competitive second group phase and qualify with only one win makes a complete mockery of the whole Cup.
Sodding hell, Arsenal could still go through if they lose.
Arsenal lose, Ajax lose: Valencia advance as group winners. Arsenal finish second ahead of Ajax and Roma by virtue of their better results among the three teams.
Arsenal lose, Ajax lose: Valencia advance as group winners. Arsenal finish second ahead of Ajax and Roma by virtue of their better results among the three teams.
Looking at the Roma game as a one off, Valencia should stuff Arsenal.
Arsenal truly do not deserve to progress with the results they've had.
draw, draw, draw, draw. That isn't the scorecard of the Champions of Europe.
draw, draw, draw, draw. That isn't the scorecard of the Champions of Europe.
VenomByte wrote:
>You shouldn't have much trouble getting another draw :)
Although I think Arsenal will get the result they need, Valencia need to win the game in order to qualify, which will make it an interesting contest.
>You shouldn't have much trouble getting another draw :)
Although I think Arsenal will get the result they need, Valencia need to win the game in order to qualify, which will make it an interesting contest.
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