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Not on the two recent performances.
Just how hot and cold can a team blow? Knock United out of the FA Cup with a tremendous performance, then draw 1-1 with Ajax. Hammer Man City 5-1 with a footballing masterclass, and draw 0-0 with Ajax.
Sometimes, it just seems to me that a number of the Arsenal just can't be bothered. Fair enough, Ajax defended well in both games, with 11 men behind the ball most of the time. But they were never without their chances. And in both games, Arsenal seemed lethargic.
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it. But instead, we've played at a walking pace for most of the game, and consequently had many passes cut out.
All credit to Ajax, who were hassling and hurrying us - but we know that the team deals with that comfortably every week in the Premiership. The difference is that in the Prem, we play at a far higher pace, and that suits our game. The same attempts at cutting out our passes are made, but don't work because we're too quick. Slow it down, and things start going wrong.
It was a hard game for us, but it really shouldn't have been. We invited pressure constantly, with miss-placed passes all over the place (whether there was pressure from Ajax or not), and by not attacking the loose balls. Every time, Arsenal players were guilty of waiting for the ball to come to them, rather than going and getting it - and every time, an Ajax player just stepped in and took it. That is both frustrating and unacceptable.
It's not as if we can use a hard game last Saturday as an excuse - we had that won after 19 minutes, and strolled the rest of it. This was just a dire performance. I don't know if Wenger tells them to play at that snails pace as a tactical switch, or if it's still some psychological hangover from previous CL campaigns, but it really needs to stop. We're used to playing a certain way, so go out and play that way - the minute your opponents make you change your tactics, they're halfway to winning the battle.
Arsenal played tonight like they were scared of conceding a goal, and I have to say that on the over-all performance, so was I - because I don't think we'd have gotten back into it.
Vieira and Cole were about the only two players worthy of wearing the shirt tonight. Keown uncharacteristically gave the ball away at practically every turn; Campbell was okay; Lauren was often guilty of ball-watching; Gilberto was almost non-existent; Pires tried but had no support; Wiltord started brightly but faded; Bergkamp and Henry had little or no service to feed off because of the dire midfield, and were therefore rendered irrelevant; and the subs didn't really have long enough to make any mark on the game.
At least Roma beat Valencia, so that keeps the group open - but for once I'd like to get through without needing to rely on the results of others. Now we absolutely must beat Roma at Highbury, and hope that Ajax can beat Valencia.
How different it might have been if they'd all got stuck in like we know they can. Once again, we've made a rod for our own back, and will have no-one to blame but ourselves if we fail to get through this group.
Just how hot and cold can a team blow? Knock United out of the FA Cup with a tremendous performance, then draw 1-1 with Ajax. Hammer Man City 5-1 with a footballing masterclass, and draw 0-0 with Ajax.
Sometimes, it just seems to me that a number of the Arsenal just can't be bothered. Fair enough, Ajax defended well in both games, with 11 men behind the ball most of the time. But they were never without their chances. And in both games, Arsenal seemed lethargic.
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it. But instead, we've played at a walking pace for most of the game, and consequently had many passes cut out.
All credit to Ajax, who were hassling and hurrying us - but we know that the team deals with that comfortably every week in the Premiership. The difference is that in the Prem, we play at a far higher pace, and that suits our game. The same attempts at cutting out our passes are made, but don't work because we're too quick. Slow it down, and things start going wrong.
It was a hard game for us, but it really shouldn't have been. We invited pressure constantly, with miss-placed passes all over the place (whether there was pressure from Ajax or not), and by not attacking the loose balls. Every time, Arsenal players were guilty of waiting for the ball to come to them, rather than going and getting it - and every time, an Ajax player just stepped in and took it. That is both frustrating and unacceptable.
It's not as if we can use a hard game last Saturday as an excuse - we had that won after 19 minutes, and strolled the rest of it. This was just a dire performance. I don't know if Wenger tells them to play at that snails pace as a tactical switch, or if it's still some psychological hangover from previous CL campaigns, but it really needs to stop. We're used to playing a certain way, so go out and play that way - the minute your opponents make you change your tactics, they're halfway to winning the battle.
Arsenal played tonight like they were scared of conceding a goal, and I have to say that on the over-all performance, so was I - because I don't think we'd have gotten back into it.
Vieira and Cole were about the only two players worthy of wearing the shirt tonight. Keown uncharacteristically gave the ball away at practically every turn; Campbell was okay; Lauren was often guilty of ball-watching; Gilberto was almost non-existent; Pires tried but had no support; Wiltord started brightly but faded; Bergkamp and Henry had little or no service to feed off because of the dire midfield, and were therefore rendered irrelevant; and the subs didn't really have long enough to make any mark on the game.
At least Roma beat Valencia, so that keeps the group open - but for once I'd like to get through without needing to rely on the results of others. Now we absolutely must beat Roma at Highbury, and hope that Ajax can beat Valencia.
How different it might have been if they'd all got stuck in like we know they can. Once again, we've made a rod for our own back, and will have no-one to blame but ourselves if we fail to get through this group.
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Not on the two recent performances.
Just how hot and cold can a team blow? Knock United out of the FA Cup with a tremendous performance, then draw 1-1 with Ajax. Hammer Man City 5-1 with a footballing masterclass, and draw 0-0 with Ajax.
Sometimes, it just seems to me that a number of the Arsenal just can't be bothered. Fair enough, Ajax defended well in both games, with 11 men behind the ball most of the time. But they were never without their chances. And in both games, Arsenal seemed lethargic.
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it. But instead, we've played at a walking pace for most of the game, and consequently had many passes cut out.
All credit to Ajax, who were hassling and hurrying us - but we know that the team deals with that comfortably every week in the Premiership. The difference is that in the Prem, we play at a far higher pace, and that suits our game. The same attempts at cutting out our passes are made, but don't work because we're too quick. Slow it down, and things start going wrong.
It was a hard game for us, but it really shouldn't have been. We invited pressure constantly, with miss-placed passes all over the place (whether there was pressure from Ajax or not), and by not attacking the loose balls. Every time, Arsenal players were guilty of waiting for the ball to come to them, rather than going and getting it - and every time, an Ajax player just stepped in and took it. That is both frustrating and unacceptable.
It's not as if we can use a hard game last Saturday as an excuse - we had that won after 19 minutes, and strolled the rest of it. This was just a dire performance. I don't know if Wenger tells them to play at that snails pace as a tactical switch, or if it's still some psychological hangover from previous CL campaigns, but it really needs to stop. We're used to playing a certain way, so go out and play that way - the minute your opponents make you change your tactics, they're halfway to winning the battle.
Arsenal played tonight like they were scared of conceding a goal, and I have to say that on the over-all performance, so was I - because I don't think we'd have gotten back into it.
Vieira and Cole were about the only two players worthy of wearing the shirt tonight. Keown uncharacteristically gave the ball away at practically every turn; Campbell was okay; Lauren was often guilty of ball-watching; Gilberto was almost non-existent; Pires tried but had no support; Wiltord started brightly but faded; Bergkamp and Henry had little or no service to feed off because of the dire midfield, and were therefore rendered irrelevant; and the subs didn't really have long enough to make any mark on the game.
At least Roma beat Valencia, so that keeps the group open - but for once I'd like to get through without needing to rely on the results of others. Now we absolutely must beat Roma at Highbury, and hope that Ajax can beat Valencia.
How different it might have been if they'd all got stuck in like we know they can. Once again, we've made a rod for our own back, and will have no-one to blame but ourselves if we fail to get through this group.
Just how hot and cold can a team blow? Knock United out of the FA Cup with a tremendous performance, then draw 1-1 with Ajax. Hammer Man City 5-1 with a footballing masterclass, and draw 0-0 with Ajax.
Sometimes, it just seems to me that a number of the Arsenal just can't be bothered. Fair enough, Ajax defended well in both games, with 11 men behind the ball most of the time. But they were never without their chances. And in both games, Arsenal seemed lethargic.
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it. But instead, we've played at a walking pace for most of the game, and consequently had many passes cut out.
All credit to Ajax, who were hassling and hurrying us - but we know that the team deals with that comfortably every week in the Premiership. The difference is that in the Prem, we play at a far higher pace, and that suits our game. The same attempts at cutting out our passes are made, but don't work because we're too quick. Slow it down, and things start going wrong.
It was a hard game for us, but it really shouldn't have been. We invited pressure constantly, with miss-placed passes all over the place (whether there was pressure from Ajax or not), and by not attacking the loose balls. Every time, Arsenal players were guilty of waiting for the ball to come to them, rather than going and getting it - and every time, an Ajax player just stepped in and took it. That is both frustrating and unacceptable.
It's not as if we can use a hard game last Saturday as an excuse - we had that won after 19 minutes, and strolled the rest of it. This was just a dire performance. I don't know if Wenger tells them to play at that snails pace as a tactical switch, or if it's still some psychological hangover from previous CL campaigns, but it really needs to stop. We're used to playing a certain way, so go out and play that way - the minute your opponents make you change your tactics, they're halfway to winning the battle.
Arsenal played tonight like they were scared of conceding a goal, and I have to say that on the over-all performance, so was I - because I don't think we'd have gotten back into it.
Vieira and Cole were about the only two players worthy of wearing the shirt tonight. Keown uncharacteristically gave the ball away at practically every turn; Campbell was okay; Lauren was often guilty of ball-watching; Gilberto was almost non-existent; Pires tried but had no support; Wiltord started brightly but faded; Bergkamp and Henry had little or no service to feed off because of the dire midfield, and were therefore rendered irrelevant; and the subs didn't really have long enough to make any mark on the game.
At least Roma beat Valencia, so that keeps the group open - but for once I'd like to get through without needing to rely on the results of others. Now we absolutely must beat Roma at Highbury, and hope that Ajax can beat Valencia.
How different it might have been if they'd all got stuck in like we know they can. Once again, we've made a rod for our own back, and will have no-one to blame but ourselves if we fail to get through this group.
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it.
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You COULD say that about Ajax in the first match. They certainly weren't without chances wasted.
I don't know about the rest of you Gooners who watched the game, but I felt in both games that we could have won easily, *IF* we had bothered to put a bit of effort into it.
-----------------
You COULD say that about Ajax in the first match. They certainly weren't without chances wasted.
Scouse Tw@t wrote:
> You COULD say that about Ajax in the first match. They certainly
> weren't without chances wasted.
I could also say that about Arsenal in the first match - that was marginally better than tonight, but we still never got going.
> You COULD say that about Ajax in the first match. They certainly
> weren't without chances wasted.
I could also say that about Arsenal in the first match - that was marginally better than tonight, but we still never got going.
Yes, I know all that mate :P
I mean, when you say "we could have won IF we put enough effort in", you could easily say that about your opponents whom you have beaten.
I mean, when you say "we could have won IF we put enough effort in", you could easily say that about your opponents whom you have beaten.
But the difference is that many of those opponents have given all their effort and still lost.
And that's credit to them. No-one really minds if you give it your all and still lose, but we all know that Arsenal can give so much more - that's what makes it doubly frutrating for us fans.
Same with Liverpool in recent months, surely?
And that's credit to them. No-one really minds if you give it your all and still lose, but we all know that Arsenal can give so much more - that's what makes it doubly frutrating for us fans.
Same with Liverpool in recent months, surely?
*frustrating
:-)
:-)
There's a SLIGHT (difference) with that one :)
We play bad, and lose. When we TOTALLY dominate a game, and have al the chances, we draw or lose. Maybe the odd win.
But I don't want to take away from your good original post. ;)
Arsenal will still get through I reckon.
We play bad, and lose. When we TOTALLY dominate a game, and have al the chances, we draw or lose. Maybe the odd win.
But I don't want to take away from your good original post. ;)
Arsenal will still get through I reckon.
Roma certainly aren't going to roll over at Highbury either.
After winning 3-0 at Valencia, which is an incredible result, they're going to be fired up.
Arsenal can beat anyone though, if they try.
It was just the same last season, dropping points in games you should have won put you out at this stage, and though I'm not an Arsenal fan, I do like to see the English teams make it as far a possible, so I want you to go through.
That's a bloody tight group now, you on 6 with Ajax, Valencia on 5 and Roma on 3, any two can still go through.
After winning 3-0 at Valencia, which is an incredible result, they're going to be fired up.
Arsenal can beat anyone though, if they try.
It was just the same last season, dropping points in games you should have won put you out at this stage, and though I'm not an Arsenal fan, I do like to see the English teams make it as far a possible, so I want you to go through.
That's a bloody tight group now, you on 6 with Ajax, Valencia on 5 and Roma on 3, any two can still go through.
I think it's a case of adapting to European style football, United had this very problem of winning a lot domestically but being held in europe by teams that they should have beaten or at least taken something of. It's taken a while for us to do this and I think Arsenal will have to bare with it and learn from experiances in Europe whether they are good or bad. I still think Arsenal will qualify, Valencia aren't playing well at the moment and it's an opportunity for Arsenal to go there and try to take all 3 points or at least draw and beat Roma at home. Either way it will be difficult.
I thought Arsenal played well last night, they just weren't good enough. Looking at Ajax, they are a much stronger team than they have been in the last four or five years.
I can't see Arsenal winning the CL given their performances in it so far this season.
I can't see Arsenal winning the CL given their performances in it so far this season.
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