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You may see this topic as slightly cynical, but I assure you it's not. Let's think about it...
Why does piracy happen?
The answer is that all you get for your $40 when you buy a game is a load of 0's and 1's printed on a CD. That's all you get. You don't get satisfactory customer service after sales, or even free internet updates... oh no, you have to buy an update!
But, even more annoyingly is that these 1's and 0's are too often rubbish. Even felt you have been cheated when you buy a game? Well that's the feeling that leads to piracy.
The industry can only stop this by making sure that a bigger proportion off games released are of top quality. Then I'd be willing to spend £40 on them every time. As it stands, for every Gran Turismo there is a Sega GT, and for every Final Fantasy there is an Evolution.
In addition to this, maybe games should be cut in price. This can be acheived by abolishing all territorial lock outs, and developing games with multi-language features from the start. That way games are released more cheaply at one universal price across the world. Only problem is that this may allow Sony to control the market a little less. But if the choice is between control and profits, even Sony would choose profits! It's ecconomics... Stoopid!
SonicRav
Why does piracy happen?
The answer is that all you get for your $40 when you buy a game is a load of 0's and 1's printed on a CD. That's all you get. You don't get satisfactory customer service after sales, or even free internet updates... oh no, you have to buy an update!
But, even more annoyingly is that these 1's and 0's are too often rubbish. Even felt you have been cheated when you buy a game? Well that's the feeling that leads to piracy.
The industry can only stop this by making sure that a bigger proportion off games released are of top quality. Then I'd be willing to spend £40 on them every time. As it stands, for every Gran Turismo there is a Sega GT, and for every Final Fantasy there is an Evolution.
In addition to this, maybe games should be cut in price. This can be acheived by abolishing all territorial lock outs, and developing games with multi-language features from the start. That way games are released more cheaply at one universal price across the world. Only problem is that this may allow Sony to control the market a little less. But if the choice is between control and profits, even Sony would choose profits! It's ecconomics... Stoopid!
SonicRav
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I'll agree that perhaps it could be possible to have all versions exactly the same, but I stand by the rest of my arguements.
It's a known fact that people like to spend less than they have to, therefore no matter what quality the games are, pirates will sell bundles simply because it's cheaper.
For video game pricing, who do you expect to make the reductions? The producers of the game will on average recieve 25% of the retail value - and that is income, not profit. They really can't ask for much less considering it can often cost £10,000,000+ to make a game. The retailer typically gets between £3 -£15 per sale. Another 17.5% is VAT. The rest goes to the publishers and distributors. I'm all in favour of reduced prices, but who do we point the finger at?
It's the extortionate level of taxing in the UK that's the problem, but I'm really not in the mood to go into politics....
It's a known fact that people like to spend less than they have to, therefore no matter what quality the games are, pirates will sell bundles simply because it's cheaper.
For video game pricing, who do you expect to make the reductions? The producers of the game will on average recieve 25% of the retail value - and that is income, not profit. They really can't ask for much less considering it can often cost £10,000,000+ to make a game. The retailer typically gets between £3 -£15 per sale. Another 17.5% is VAT. The rest goes to the publishers and distributors. I'm all in favour of reduced prices, but who do we point the finger at?
It's the extortionate level of taxing in the UK that's the problem, but I'm really not in the mood to go into politics....
Actually, you're a bit wrong venom:
venom:
>So you might. A lot of people wouldn't. Piracy isn't there >to supply the demand for crap games, you know. It would >still be there even if all games were great.
Well, actually from experience, a majority of people who buy pirates do so because, in the past, they have felt cheated by buying a bad game for $40. Obviously some people will always pirate, but then again, these people would never buy full price games anyway, and therefore don't affect the industry.
Venom (on no lock outs):
>nice idea. Sadly, different electrical systems and other >such things mean you simply can't make one version for >all.
>A single universal price is out of the question - every >country has it's own tax system and import duties.
This is rubbish! Why is it that I can get a chip, stick it in my DC/PSX/anything and get it to play imports? Consoles could be made with this chip already. Considering that the lock outs actually cost money, these can be replaced by "chips". Sega HAVE DONE THIS with the Asian DC that has NO LOCKOUT and plays all territories! (it's high price is due to the specialist market- not the price of the chip)
As for pricing, why is it that an american game that costs $40 costs £40 (=$53ish)? That is not all tax/shipping costs! It is the phenomenon known as "rip-off britain!"
>Only problem
> is that this may allow Sony to control the market a little less.
How? So what?
Well, Sony couldn't control the high price of games as described above.
FINALLY, see my new topic.... I have solved piracy... mostly.
SonicRav
venom:
>So you might. A lot of people wouldn't. Piracy isn't there >to supply the demand for crap games, you know. It would >still be there even if all games were great.
Well, actually from experience, a majority of people who buy pirates do so because, in the past, they have felt cheated by buying a bad game for $40. Obviously some people will always pirate, but then again, these people would never buy full price games anyway, and therefore don't affect the industry.
Venom (on no lock outs):
>nice idea. Sadly, different electrical systems and other >such things mean you simply can't make one version for >all.
>A single universal price is out of the question - every >country has it's own tax system and import duties.
This is rubbish! Why is it that I can get a chip, stick it in my DC/PSX/anything and get it to play imports? Consoles could be made with this chip already. Considering that the lock outs actually cost money, these can be replaced by "chips". Sega HAVE DONE THIS with the Asian DC that has NO LOCKOUT and plays all territories! (it's high price is due to the specialist market- not the price of the chip)
As for pricing, why is it that an american game that costs $40 costs £40 (=$53ish)? That is not all tax/shipping costs! It is the phenomenon known as "rip-off britain!"
>Only problem
> is that this may allow Sony to control the market a little less.
How? So what?
Well, Sony couldn't control the high price of games as described above.
FINALLY, see my new topic.... I have solved piracy... mostly.
SonicRav
ack...why can I never make a post without a typing error?
That last word was meant to say "sales" obviously enough..
That last word was meant to say "sales" obviously enough..
SonicRav, I'm not too impressed by your grasp of economics.
SonicRav wrote:
The industry can only stop this by
> making sure that a bigger proportion off games released are of top
> quality. Then I'd be willing to spend £40 on them every time.
So you might. A lot of people wouldn't. Piracy isn't there to supply the demand for crap games, you know. It would still be there even if all games were great.
>In addition to this,
> maybe games should be cut in price. This can be acheived by
> abolishing all territorial lock outs, and developing games with
> multi-language features from the start. That way games are released
> more cheaply at one universal price across the world.
nice idea. Sadly, different electrical systems and other such things mean you simply can't make one version for all.
A single universal price is out of the question - every country has it's own tax system and import duties.
>Only problem
> is that this may allow Sony to control the market a little less.
How? So what?
As for economics...
Pirates are always going to be able to undercut the producers as they have lower overheads. They don't have to pay programmers and deigners, artists, musicians, testers and whoever else for two years work. They don't have to design manuals or worry about distribution costs. Lets not also forget that when you buy a game, you're not buying straight from the source either. The retailers or distributers also take a nice chunk of profit
The producers simply can't make the games cheap enough to force pirates out of the market.
How much do you think they make for every copy sold?
Ahh..I can see the slogan now..
Activision Entertainment Ltd.
"We actually make a loss on every sale but we make up for it because of our huge slaes!"
SonicRav wrote:
The industry can only stop this by
> making sure that a bigger proportion off games released are of top
> quality. Then I'd be willing to spend £40 on them every time.
So you might. A lot of people wouldn't. Piracy isn't there to supply the demand for crap games, you know. It would still be there even if all games were great.
>In addition to this,
> maybe games should be cut in price. This can be acheived by
> abolishing all territorial lock outs, and developing games with
> multi-language features from the start. That way games are released
> more cheaply at one universal price across the world.
nice idea. Sadly, different electrical systems and other such things mean you simply can't make one version for all.
A single universal price is out of the question - every country has it's own tax system and import duties.
>Only problem
> is that this may allow Sony to control the market a little less.
How? So what?
As for economics...
Pirates are always going to be able to undercut the producers as they have lower overheads. They don't have to pay programmers and deigners, artists, musicians, testers and whoever else for two years work. They don't have to design manuals or worry about distribution costs. Lets not also forget that when you buy a game, you're not buying straight from the source either. The retailers or distributers also take a nice chunk of profit
The producers simply can't make the games cheap enough to force pirates out of the market.
How much do you think they make for every copy sold?
Ahh..I can see the slogan now..
Activision Entertainment Ltd.
"We actually make a loss on every sale but we make up for it because of our huge slaes!"
There's a diference between piracy and importing foreign games. It's not against the law to get your console to play games from the US, and european games already work on UK consoles, and it's certainly not illegal to import games or buy them abroad. Films are different because they have to go through the BBFC for a classification first and this can take ages.
Japanese titles are made in Japan, where the people speak Japanese as a first language (suprisingly) therefore they are created in Japanese first and translated. Other than that, the only excuse for games not being given a worldwide release is advertising and which company actually distributes the game in which country.
Interestingly, the rest of Europe seem to get their new hardware first and they don't pay as much because of our lovely tax system. Thank you Tony Blair!
Japanese titles are made in Japan, where the people speak Japanese as a first language (suprisingly) therefore they are created in Japanese first and translated. Other than that, the only excuse for games not being given a worldwide release is advertising and which company actually distributes the game in which country.
Interestingly, the rest of Europe seem to get their new hardware first and they don't pay as much because of our lovely tax system. Thank you Tony Blair!
Clearly, you have not read my message...
You claim that games are at a high price because of pirates. What I am saying is that pirate games are mostly made because originals are at a high price. Above I have detailed ways in which the price of original games can be cut. For example, get rid of regional lockouts. That way games can be made multi language from the start, with PAL coding beginning at the beginning of a project. The result of this is that all territories get games released at the same time, and all at the same price.
In addition, why do you think territorial lock out exists? So that companies like sony can release games in Europe at a higher price... that's why. If territorial coding were abolished then games would have universal prices across the globe. Clearly territorial lock outs used to serve Sony well, but now they only encourage pirating.
Finally, EDGE did a survey where they asked developers questions about pirating. Most people in the industry did not think it was wrong to copy games and software for your friends. Most had even bought copied games themselves (53%ish). If they feel unable to wait for poor pal conversions, then why is it wrong for us to?
SonicRav
You claim that games are at a high price because of pirates. What I am saying is that pirate games are mostly made because originals are at a high price. Above I have detailed ways in which the price of original games can be cut. For example, get rid of regional lockouts. That way games can be made multi language from the start, with PAL coding beginning at the beginning of a project. The result of this is that all territories get games released at the same time, and all at the same price.
In addition, why do you think territorial lock out exists? So that companies like sony can release games in Europe at a higher price... that's why. If territorial coding were abolished then games would have universal prices across the globe. Clearly territorial lock outs used to serve Sony well, but now they only encourage pirating.
Finally, EDGE did a survey where they asked developers questions about pirating. Most people in the industry did not think it was wrong to copy games and software for your friends. Most had even bought copied games themselves (53%ish). If they feel unable to wait for poor pal conversions, then why is it wrong for us to?
SonicRav
I previously said: "Piracy exists not because some of the games are bad, but because a minority of people decide to make a living off other peoples backs. These criminal parasites don't care that they are acting detrimentally to the future of gaming, they only want to line their own pockets. As piracy cuts deeper and deeper into the revenues generated by games sales, the cost to the majority of end users who by at RRP has to go up to counteract this, thereby resulting at higher priced lower quality games."
I still stand by that. How can the games industry be responsible for piracy when they are the ones who are trying the hardest to eradicate it? Do you think they WANT to sell at these high prices? 'Course not! They are forced to, but not only because of the pirates. There are many other factors that affect the prices of games, but you cannot say that the gaming industry is responsible for piracy.
I still stand by that. How can the games industry be responsible for piracy when they are the ones who are trying the hardest to eradicate it? Do you think they WANT to sell at these high prices? 'Course not! They are forced to, but not only because of the pirates. There are many other factors that affect the prices of games, but you cannot say that the gaming industry is responsible for piracy.
I am reposting this in retaliation to the poorly conceived topic that has just been on about piracy... it is the industry's fault.
SonicRav
SonicRav
anyone else?
SonicRav
SonicRav
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