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I've read quite a few posts from people concerning the living hell that is dating, so I thought I'd add my two cents. This is a little out of date now as I'm back with my fiancee (should anyone be remotely interested in that little tidbit).
As a further side note, after I wrote and sent this to friends on my mailing list, I was suddenly surrounded by women who were only to happy to make it clear that I was welcome back at their place any time. Something to bear in mind perhaps?
Dating is something that I am a relative newcomer to. Having met my former fiancee at age 15 and stayed with her for over 9 years, it is also something that I felt sure I had avoided and I was grateful in extremis for that. But we live in an uncertain world and so it was that I found myself stranded in a game whose rules I had a vague understanding and whose formalities and etiquette seemed alien in their complexity. Now, I don't intend to make this a rundown of my love life since splitting with my other half, so you may be asking yourself "Yeah? So what?". And that line of thought would be entirely acceptable if I were to mire myself in self pity at my rather poor showing in the dating game. But I don't intend to do that, no not one bit of it. What I do intend to do is vent my spleen about one aspect of it; an element that one seemingly *must* understand if one wants to get anywhere (and I mean that in every sense of the phrase). I'm talking about the idea of "Not Seeming Too Keen".
Okay, before I get started I should declare an interest in attacking this particular little bugbear. When I met the first young lady post-fiancee, I was guilty of trying "Not to seem too keen". What it in fact achieved was to make me "Not seem too bright" as well as "Not capable of doing something without dithering like a prat". So in that respect perhaps my extraordinary supply of bile that I have reserved for this dating practice is a little biased.
Now if it were just me who had managed to snatch despair from the jaws of happiness then I would write it off as a personal error to be learnt from and *never* to be repeated again. But I am by no means the only one to make such a complete testy-wart of myself in the name of making a juvenile effort at looking cool at all costs. No, not at all. In the last few months I have seen numerous friends meet somebody who they liked and could see themselves getting involved in a relationship with. In particular, I've seen one very close friend manage to consign countless potential relationships to the grave for absolutely no other reason that this bizarre idea that one shouldn't seem to keen about someone else. The routine ran something like this;
Friend goes out for a weekend's worth of merriment; friend meets up with Someone; friend is attracted to this Someone; this Someone is attracted to friend; friend and Someone spend entire evening together; friend get's back and fizzes around with excitement at having met Someone whom they really like; friend makes enquiries of mutual friends to find out what Someone thought of friend (don't ask - this friend of mine seems to know every other human being on the face of the planet...), friend invariably finds out that Someone was equally as besotted; friend forces self not to ring,text,email, or contact Someone in any way ; Someone sends non-committal message via text/email (because friend won't answer the phone in case it's Someone, and Someone has to be non-committal as Someone must also be sure "Not To Seem Too Keen"); friend get's utterly disheartened at non-committal nature of message and writes off all hope of relationship with Someone; friend does not reply to Someone; Someone assumes friend is not interested; Repeat from start.
Did I miss something? Are we still a nation of Victorian era prudes for whom showing emotion is a faux pas on the same level as paedophilia?! What happened to the idea of the UK being full of vibrant and trendy young things? The pattern that my friend seems to follow is by no means unique and I'm sure that you'll recognise it to a greater or lesser degree. And who in the name of Satan's blistering wee decided that the most surefire way to attract a potential partner was to not contact them for about a week after meeting them, and then being cool and distant when one eventually deigns to get in touch? I mean, I know that love and lust don't exactly operate logically but this strikes me as an obscene repression of ones natural feelings upon meeting someone whom one likes.
I'm sure things are different in the wonderful world of adulthood, but when I first met Joanne (my good lady fiancee) I was no more capable of playing it cool and distant than I was of not having a crafty one off the wrist at least every other day (hey c'mon; I *was* 15...). Any pretence at measured and logical thought perished in the fiery inferno of the unfettered passion and unbridled lust that I felt at the mere thought of her. As such, I rang her within a few days of first meeting her, she rang back the following day and the rest (like our engagement) is history.
So what exactly changes between being a teenager and being an adult. One would think that things would be a lot more cut and dried as an adult. After all, the hormones no longer rampage round our bodies like a viagra tainted flu virus (by the time our mid twenties are upon us they are more like a mild case of the sniffles) and we don't have to endure the horrendous coyness and gangly awkwardness that is the sole preserve of the teenager in love. And yet rather than being relieved beyond words to see the back of that godawful time, we seem to be doing our very best to artificially recreate it. And we do this by obsessively "Not Seeming Very Keen".
It's not as if this could be misconstrued as an attempt to retain some of the sense of wonder that permeates every new experience of our teenage years. Christ knows, I felt as stupidly in lust with Maddy (that rather lovely post-fiancee lady) when we met as I ever had done as a teenager so what the hell possessed me (and possesses pretty much all young adults) to try and "Not Seem Too Keen"? I suppose the most obvious answer is that we are afraid of facing the ridicule of our peers. And so it seems that we are happy to think less of ourselves, to be unable to live with ourselves and the decisions that we've made, just as long as our friends don't mock us or think less of us. Perhaps we are so egotistical as to believe that every single potential partner (or even just potential shag if you want me to be cynically truthful) also doubles up as "Potential Stalker". If so then that is a pretty sad indictment of ourselves; we'd prefer to live in perpetual fear rather than let our guard down and grasp the possibility of living in happiness.
Can I really be the only single person who thinks that this Law of Dating is one of the worst ideas in the history of human nature? Or am I just an embittered and sad git who is angry at his own self-inflicted lack of success with the opposite sex? Either way, please do enlighten me as I've given up trying to make sense of the whole damn thing!
As a further side note, after I wrote and sent this to friends on my mailing list, I was suddenly surrounded by women who were only to happy to make it clear that I was welcome back at their place any time. Something to bear in mind perhaps?
Dating is something that I am a relative newcomer to. Having met my former fiancee at age 15 and stayed with her for over 9 years, it is also something that I felt sure I had avoided and I was grateful in extremis for that. But we live in an uncertain world and so it was that I found myself stranded in a game whose rules I had a vague understanding and whose formalities and etiquette seemed alien in their complexity. Now, I don't intend to make this a rundown of my love life since splitting with my other half, so you may be asking yourself "Yeah? So what?". And that line of thought would be entirely acceptable if I were to mire myself in self pity at my rather poor showing in the dating game. But I don't intend to do that, no not one bit of it. What I do intend to do is vent my spleen about one aspect of it; an element that one seemingly *must* understand if one wants to get anywhere (and I mean that in every sense of the phrase). I'm talking about the idea of "Not Seeming Too Keen".
Okay, before I get started I should declare an interest in attacking this particular little bugbear. When I met the first young lady post-fiancee, I was guilty of trying "Not to seem too keen". What it in fact achieved was to make me "Not seem too bright" as well as "Not capable of doing something without dithering like a prat". So in that respect perhaps my extraordinary supply of bile that I have reserved for this dating practice is a little biased.
Now if it were just me who had managed to snatch despair from the jaws of happiness then I would write it off as a personal error to be learnt from and *never* to be repeated again. But I am by no means the only one to make such a complete testy-wart of myself in the name of making a juvenile effort at looking cool at all costs. No, not at all. In the last few months I have seen numerous friends meet somebody who they liked and could see themselves getting involved in a relationship with. In particular, I've seen one very close friend manage to consign countless potential relationships to the grave for absolutely no other reason that this bizarre idea that one shouldn't seem to keen about someone else. The routine ran something like this;
Friend goes out for a weekend's worth of merriment; friend meets up with Someone; friend is attracted to this Someone; this Someone is attracted to friend; friend and Someone spend entire evening together; friend get's back and fizzes around with excitement at having met Someone whom they really like; friend makes enquiries of mutual friends to find out what Someone thought of friend (don't ask - this friend of mine seems to know every other human being on the face of the planet...), friend invariably finds out that Someone was equally as besotted; friend forces self not to ring,text,email, or contact Someone in any way ; Someone sends non-committal message via text/email (because friend won't answer the phone in case it's Someone, and Someone has to be non-committal as Someone must also be sure "Not To Seem Too Keen"); friend get's utterly disheartened at non-committal nature of message and writes off all hope of relationship with Someone; friend does not reply to Someone; Someone assumes friend is not interested; Repeat from start.
Did I miss something? Are we still a nation of Victorian era prudes for whom showing emotion is a faux pas on the same level as paedophilia?! What happened to the idea of the UK being full of vibrant and trendy young things? The pattern that my friend seems to follow is by no means unique and I'm sure that you'll recognise it to a greater or lesser degree. And who in the name of Satan's blistering wee decided that the most surefire way to attract a potential partner was to not contact them for about a week after meeting them, and then being cool and distant when one eventually deigns to get in touch? I mean, I know that love and lust don't exactly operate logically but this strikes me as an obscene repression of ones natural feelings upon meeting someone whom one likes.
I'm sure things are different in the wonderful world of adulthood, but when I first met Joanne (my good lady fiancee) I was no more capable of playing it cool and distant than I was of not having a crafty one off the wrist at least every other day (hey c'mon; I *was* 15...). Any pretence at measured and logical thought perished in the fiery inferno of the unfettered passion and unbridled lust that I felt at the mere thought of her. As such, I rang her within a few days of first meeting her, she rang back the following day and the rest (like our engagement) is history.
So what exactly changes between being a teenager and being an adult. One would think that things would be a lot more cut and dried as an adult. After all, the hormones no longer rampage round our bodies like a viagra tainted flu virus (by the time our mid twenties are upon us they are more like a mild case of the sniffles) and we don't have to endure the horrendous coyness and gangly awkwardness that is the sole preserve of the teenager in love. And yet rather than being relieved beyond words to see the back of that godawful time, we seem to be doing our very best to artificially recreate it. And we do this by obsessively "Not Seeming Very Keen".
It's not as if this could be misconstrued as an attempt to retain some of the sense of wonder that permeates every new experience of our teenage years. Christ knows, I felt as stupidly in lust with Maddy (that rather lovely post-fiancee lady) when we met as I ever had done as a teenager so what the hell possessed me (and possesses pretty much all young adults) to try and "Not Seem Too Keen"? I suppose the most obvious answer is that we are afraid of facing the ridicule of our peers. And so it seems that we are happy to think less of ourselves, to be unable to live with ourselves and the decisions that we've made, just as long as our friends don't mock us or think less of us. Perhaps we are so egotistical as to believe that every single potential partner (or even just potential shag if you want me to be cynically truthful) also doubles up as "Potential Stalker". If so then that is a pretty sad indictment of ourselves; we'd prefer to live in perpetual fear rather than let our guard down and grasp the possibility of living in happiness.
Can I really be the only single person who thinks that this Law of Dating is one of the worst ideas in the history of human nature? Or am I just an embittered and sad git who is angry at his own self-inflicted lack of success with the opposite sex? Either way, please do enlighten me as I've given up trying to make sense of the whole damn thing!
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Jonman wrote:
> Still, it's Friday, and I'm off out tonight. I'll leave my shame,
> pride and shyness at home. Look out Seattle!
In my experience shyness is something you definately don't want to have with american ladies, unless you want them to say stuff like 'your sweet', 'aww cute' ..... then go off with one of your mates
good luck spreading some 'Brit-love'
> Still, it's Friday, and I'm off out tonight. I'll leave my shame,
> pride and shyness at home. Look out Seattle!
In my experience shyness is something you definately don't want to have with american ladies, unless you want them to say stuff like 'your sweet', 'aww cute' ..... then go off with one of your mates
good luck spreading some 'Brit-love'
Wise words indeed folks. And well taken by the Jonman, who's just hitting the dating scene after spending a blissful year as a batchelor not too fussed about it after a (very) messy breakup.
Now I've moved to the states, have found that my accent is like a big girl-magnet, and am ready to spread some Brit-love to the American girlies. Good timing too, as I met a group of three girls last weekend, one of whom is rather saucy. I need to get my backside into gear and give her a call. Especially as I've just moved into a top banana apartment downtown (with a sea view). And it needs christening.
Still, it's Friday, and I'm off out tonight. I'll leave my shame, pride and shyness at home. Look out Seattle!
Now I've moved to the states, have found that my accent is like a big girl-magnet, and am ready to spread some Brit-love to the American girlies. Good timing too, as I met a group of three girls last weekend, one of whom is rather saucy. I need to get my backside into gear and give her a call. Especially as I've just moved into a top banana apartment downtown (with a sea view). And it needs christening.
Still, it's Friday, and I'm off out tonight. I'll leave my shame, pride and shyness at home. Look out Seattle!
Before last July, I hadn't been out with anyone for a couple of years.
Right at the end of my university placement (amd I mean RIGHT at the end, like the night before I move home) I meet someone at a party. I'm drinking, she's not. I'm drunk, she's not. I get her number, she goes home.
The next day, I move home. Think "what the hell", and give her a call, we speak on the phone everyday for a week or so, then arrange to meet up, and we've been going out every since.
Sod all this "Don't be too keen" stuff. Just don't stalk her, or she'll probably phone the police...
Right at the end of my university placement (amd I mean RIGHT at the end, like the night before I move home) I meet someone at a party. I'm drinking, she's not. I'm drunk, she's not. I get her number, she goes home.
The next day, I move home. Think "what the hell", and give her a call, we speak on the phone everyday for a week or so, then arrange to meet up, and we've been going out every since.
Sod all this "Don't be too keen" stuff. Just don't stalk her, or she'll probably phone the police...
In my vague experience of dating, which on rare occasions happened last year while I was in the US, I was always left wondering what went wrong.
I suppose it would be easy to blame myself, which is what I do most of the time.
Most of my friends were more succesful (by a long way) and I often heard about what they had been up to (whether I wanted to or not)
In that short time I got cynical about the whole thing, wondering whether certain people were only being nice because of favours I could do for them.
I'll probably finnish writing what I wanted to say tommorow after I've over analysed it all too much.
:(
I suppose it would be easy to blame myself, which is what I do most of the time.
Most of my friends were more succesful (by a long way) and I often heard about what they had been up to (whether I wanted to or not)
In that short time I got cynical about the whole thing, wondering whether certain people were only being nice because of favours I could do for them.
I'll probably finnish writing what I wanted to say tommorow after I've over analysed it all too much.
:(
Hmm, did you post this before, or am I just getting very odd deja-vu...
Still, a good topic.
Dating stinks. That's the conclusion I've drawn from an odd vein of form where things have been going well for a bit, then it all goes to crap. And that's when I've just met her...
Still, it's better than I was doing before, but that's a long story that I don't plan to go over.
I think the not being too keen thing, sure, you show you're interested, it just means not to let her walk all over you, don't make her too important too soon. I think any other form of unkeenness (?) is usually mistaken though.
Still, a good topic.
Dating stinks. That's the conclusion I've drawn from an odd vein of form where things have been going well for a bit, then it all goes to crap. And that's when I've just met her...
Still, it's better than I was doing before, but that's a long story that I don't plan to go over.
I think the not being too keen thing, sure, you show you're interested, it just means not to let her walk all over you, don't make her too important too soon. I think any other form of unkeenness (?) is usually mistaken though.
Dating is hell.
I've only just met someone I thought was nice and it's been three years since I last went out with a girl. Your comments about "Not being too keen" are spot on.
I want to see this girl so I text her every couple of days and we usually meet up for a beer. However, last week, we went out and she seemed a little off so I completely jumped to the wrong conclusion and decided that I'd blown it. Went out on Saturday night and bumped into her, ended up dropping her off at home on Sunday afternoon! Still don't want to seem too keen by texting her too much.
Goatboy was right in another topic though, lads shouldn't analyse this kind of stuff too much. That is for women to do!
I've only just met someone I thought was nice and it's been three years since I last went out with a girl. Your comments about "Not being too keen" are spot on.
I want to see this girl so I text her every couple of days and we usually meet up for a beer. However, last week, we went out and she seemed a little off so I completely jumped to the wrong conclusion and decided that I'd blown it. Went out on Saturday night and bumped into her, ended up dropping her off at home on Sunday afternoon! Still don't want to seem too keen by texting her too much.
Goatboy was right in another topic though, lads shouldn't analyse this kind of stuff too much. That is for women to do!
i'll date the sh*t out of you if your nice.
Every person I've been out with I grow to hate in about 2-3 months
Which is a shame I guess
But it becomes so crap... " come meet my parents " etc etc.
And I hate people my age pretending they're a lot older than they are, which included me. I'm still a kid I don't want to go out to a fancy restuarant with you... lets stay in, listen to music, get wasted and do stuff.
Much easier
I can't be bothered going out with anyone just now, maybe the Summer.
Which is a shame I guess
But it becomes so crap... " come meet my parents " etc etc.
And I hate people my age pretending they're a lot older than they are, which included me. I'm still a kid I don't want to go out to a fancy restuarant with you... lets stay in, listen to music, get wasted and do stuff.
Much easier
I can't be bothered going out with anyone just now, maybe the Summer.
Rosalind wrote:
> Heh, the only proper one-night stand I ever had, lasted for the rest
> of my life so far. I'm going to marry him soon. Somethimes its worth
> kidding yourself :D
I don't see a problem with that. It's entirely possible that one of my one-offs would have made a perfect partner, but at the end of the day, I refuse to believe that there is one person for everybody, and so taking the perfect partner for a one-night roller coaster isn't a problem because there is more than one of her.
If you know what I mean. Sometimes i read my own posts and can't understand what I'm trying to say, even though it sounds perfectly legible in my head...
> Heh, the only proper one-night stand I ever had, lasted for the rest
> of my life so far. I'm going to marry him soon. Somethimes its worth
> kidding yourself :D
I don't see a problem with that. It's entirely possible that one of my one-offs would have made a perfect partner, but at the end of the day, I refuse to believe that there is one person for everybody, and so taking the perfect partner for a one-night roller coaster isn't a problem because there is more than one of her.
If you know what I mean. Sometimes i read my own posts and can't understand what I'm trying to say, even though it sounds perfectly legible in my head...
Goatboy wrote:
> Remember that excitement? The effort you used to take? Waxing your
> legs (for the women), cleaning under the bonnet (for the men)? All
> that stuff that faded into comfortable familiarity?
> Never happens.
> You never get so used to someone you just stare at the television
> instead of talking/humping/stroking each other's necks.
I thought about this stuff last time you said it. And the excitement hasn't gone out of our relasionship. We still can't keep our hands of each other, want to spend all our time together, and do special stuff.
Last night we played on the PS2 together. Onimusha. He controlled it, and I offered advice. The I had a bath. He came and sat with me and washed my hair.
Tonight we are going out for a meal and then to the cinema, to see the two towers.
We may slide into familiarity, but it hasn't happened yet.
> Remember that excitement? The effort you used to take? Waxing your
> legs (for the women), cleaning under the bonnet (for the men)? All
> that stuff that faded into comfortable familiarity?
> Never happens.
> You never get so used to someone you just stare at the television
> instead of talking/humping/stroking each other's necks.
I thought about this stuff last time you said it. And the excitement hasn't gone out of our relasionship. We still can't keep our hands of each other, want to spend all our time together, and do special stuff.
Last night we played on the PS2 together. Onimusha. He controlled it, and I offered advice. The I had a bath. He came and sat with me and washed my hair.
Tonight we are going out for a meal and then to the cinema, to see the two towers.
We may slide into familiarity, but it hasn't happened yet.
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