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[S]Well the closest figure I found is from 2004 which was 185,400 but its been going up every year before then.[/S]
Babies/fetuses same thing, you say potato I say potato (umm that didnt work).
Let me just say I do think abortion should be legal, but I'm having a tough time finding an excuse as to why so many abortions are done each year. I won't go into detail about how many times I've had sexual relations (it's probably a 5 figure number ;P) but I've managed to avoid getting any of my girlfriends pregnant. Why are the rest of you (not you lot) having such a hard time pulling out?
I can udnerstand the 14 year old girl who obviously isn't in a position to have a child, but a career woman who just doesnt have the time to have a baby? Or the women who have already had two, three, four or even five abortions (one of my exes mum had 5). Seriously, try using contraception for a change.
I think there needs to be more education, both in and out of school and no I don't think primary school kids need to know, I certainly didnt start thinking about sex until high school.
Babies/fetuses same thing, you say potato I say potato (umm that didnt work).
Let me just say I do think abortion should be legal, but I'm having a tough time finding an excuse as to why so many abortions are done each year. I won't go into detail about how many times I've had sexual relations (it's probably a 5 figure number ;P) but I've managed to avoid getting any of my girlfriends pregnant. Why are the rest of you (not you lot) having such a hard time pulling out?
I can udnerstand the 14 year old girl who obviously isn't in a position to have a child, but a career woman who just doesnt have the time to have a baby? Or the women who have already had two, three, four or even five abortions (one of my exes mum had 5). Seriously, try using contraception for a change.
I think there needs to be more education, both in and out of school and no I don't think primary school kids need to know, I certainly didnt start thinking about sex until high school.
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My stance is probably fairly offensive to some but something that many leave as a sticky mess in a Kleenex isn't something I suddenly consider to be a miracle. Catholic opposition is based around the sanctity of life, as we're "formed in God's image" and so every sp*rm comes from God etc but if, like many, you adopt that stance and still m*sturbate then you're ignoring it. All sp*rm are considered to be sacred. A collection of cells after adding these sp*rm to an egg shouldn't suddenly become an ontic evil to have aborted
In a more humanistic approach, those that 'have' to seek IVF treatments because they cannot have a baby themselves trying for years to make one while some people just get rid of something they created because it's an inconvenience seems unfair. People should be held accountable for their actions, and nowhere is this more true than having a baby. However, rather than just situations of rape etc I'd say young girls having babies could ruin their chances to get a degree and a good job in life, so they should at least have the option of abortion. The argument that they should have the baby and put it up for adoption seems flawed in that there would be a huge imbalance on the amount of babies people wanted to put up for adoption and those looking to adopt
I'm not theistic in any way. I'm a fairly strong Atheist, so religious concerns of sanctity of life don't feature in my argument or beliefs even slightly. It's more a matter of responsibility and also morality not stemming from God. You don't need to be religious to see murder is "wrong" and in the same way it is hard to determine when a collection of cells becomes a child and thus a human being murdered
For me there's a difference between accepting someone's belief and religion, and complying with the hard line view on abortion. In that matter I think the mother's right to choose is still more important, whether or not they "should" be using contraception. Because to follow the hard line view on abortion is to be intolerant by denying the right to choose, whether or not accountability for your actions is important, we can all make mistakes. Why those not trying for a baby don't (without beliefs to the effect it's "wrong") don't is beyond me, but even if a woman is a career woman or whatever the example used was they should still have an equal choice to whether or not they want to devote the next few decades bringing up a kid. Obviously if people have abortions several times they should be using contraception, but I can't say I'd like to see them denied the abortion procedure, as it goes against the right to choice principal, and an unwanted baby is worse off than one down the line. Though having the baby and putting it up for abortion would persuade them to use contraception..
Apparently medical terms don't make it through the filter?
In a more humanistic approach, those that 'have' to seek IVF treatments because they cannot have a baby themselves trying for years to make one while some people just get rid of something they created because it's an inconvenience seems unfair. People should be held accountable for their actions, and nowhere is this more true than having a baby. However, rather than just situations of rape etc I'd say young girls having babies could ruin their chances to get a degree and a good job in life, so they should at least have the option of abortion. The argument that they should have the baby and put it up for adoption seems flawed in that there would be a huge imbalance on the amount of babies people wanted to put up for adoption and those looking to adopt
I'm not theistic in any way. I'm a fairly strong Atheist, so religious concerns of sanctity of life don't feature in my argument or beliefs even slightly. It's more a matter of responsibility and also morality not stemming from God. You don't need to be religious to see murder is "wrong" and in the same way it is hard to determine when a collection of cells becomes a child and thus a human being murdered
For me there's a difference between accepting someone's belief and religion, and complying with the hard line view on abortion. In that matter I think the mother's right to choose is still more important, whether or not they "should" be using contraception. Because to follow the hard line view on abortion is to be intolerant by denying the right to choose, whether or not accountability for your actions is important, we can all make mistakes. Why those not trying for a baby don't (without beliefs to the effect it's "wrong") don't is beyond me, but even if a woman is a career woman or whatever the example used was they should still have an equal choice to whether or not they want to devote the next few decades bringing up a kid. Obviously if people have abortions several times they should be using contraception, but I can't say I'd like to see them denied the abortion procedure, as it goes against the right to choice principal, and an unwanted baby is worse off than one down the line. Though having the baby and putting it up for abortion would persuade them to use contraception..
Apparently medical terms don't make it through the filter?
Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> If she didn't want to have a baby then she shouldn't have had
> sex.
So what you're saying is no-one should have sex unless they want kids? Are you catholic by any chance?
> You run the risk of pregnancy when you have sex and people
> should understand that before they engage in such an adult
> situation.
I think the majority do understand that. Other issues come up though and accidents happen.
> I also honestly don't think anyone should have the choice to
> murder something created at their own hand. Everyone deserves a
> chance at life.
I think you've already covered this with the breaking eggs comment.
> There may be consequences and responsibilities but these don't
> seem to matter to some people i.e. wealthy business women who
> have several abortions instead of using contraceptive
> effectively, and do any of the consequences or responsibilities
> equal bringing up a child?
"Some people" Exactly, some people, not all people, not even most people. I think it's a small majority who would be so careless the 2nd time around.
As for responsibility. Well you've made my case for me. Its the lesser responsibility which is exactly why it's the right choice when the child is unwanted. The mother is going to pay the price whichever choice but the child doesnt.
> If she didn't want to have a baby then she shouldn't have had
> sex.
So what you're saying is no-one should have sex unless they want kids? Are you catholic by any chance?
> You run the risk of pregnancy when you have sex and people
> should understand that before they engage in such an adult
> situation.
I think the majority do understand that. Other issues come up though and accidents happen.
> I also honestly don't think anyone should have the choice to
> murder something created at their own hand. Everyone deserves a
> chance at life.
I think you've already covered this with the breaking eggs comment.
> There may be consequences and responsibilities but these don't
> seem to matter to some people i.e. wealthy business women who
> have several abortions instead of using contraceptive
> effectively, and do any of the consequences or responsibilities
> equal bringing up a child?
"Some people" Exactly, some people, not all people, not even most people. I think it's a small majority who would be so careless the 2nd time around.
As for responsibility. Well you've made my case for me. Its the lesser responsibility which is exactly why it's the right choice when the child is unwanted. The mother is going to pay the price whichever choice but the child doesnt.
Nin wrote:
> Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
>
> You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in
> having an abortion?
> It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice.
If she didn't want to have a baby then she shouldn't have had sex. You run the risk of pregnancy when you have sex and people should understand that before they engage in such an adult situation.
I also honestly don't think anyone should have the choice to murder something created at their own hand. Everyone deserves a chance at life.
There may be consequences and responsibilities but these don't seem to matter to some people i.e. wealthy business women who have several abortions instead of using contraceptive effectively, and do any of the consequences or responsibilities equal bringing up a child?
> Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
>
> You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in
> having an abortion?
> It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice.
If she didn't want to have a baby then she shouldn't have had sex. You run the risk of pregnancy when you have sex and people should understand that before they engage in such an adult situation.
I also honestly don't think anyone should have the choice to murder something created at their own hand. Everyone deserves a chance at life.
There may be consequences and responsibilities but these don't seem to matter to some people i.e. wealthy business women who have several abortions instead of using contraceptive effectively, and do any of the consequences or responsibilities equal bringing up a child?
Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in having an abortion?
It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice. You cant force someone to have a child, it's barbaric. Thats not to say the other option isnt but there are far too many unwanted children in this country already and i consider it the lesser evil.
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in having an abortion?
It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice. You cant force someone to have a child, it's barbaric. Thats not to say the other option isnt but there are far too many unwanted children in this country already and i consider it the lesser evil.
The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
Rape baby.
Mother or babys life in danger.
I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility for one's own actions in todays society.
Rape baby.
Mother or babys life in danger.
I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility for one's own actions in todays society.
Marzman wrote:
> Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as
> technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder.
That's like saying I destroyed a cake after throwing a bunch of eggs on the floor.
> Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as
> technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder.
That's like saying I destroyed a cake after throwing a bunch of eggs on the floor.
My brain is a bit cloudy at the moment to reply to some of the points raised here but i'm pro-choice up until 18-20 weeks (not the current 24 week limit). I consider it the lesser of two evils when the other option is forcing someone to have a child.
Now as for the women, well i dont like generalising but i think most of them are too feeble to stand up to their men when it comes to safe sex but i think they pay the price later on. I watched a documentary about this subject a couple of months ago, very sad and quite disturbing in its goryness but the saddest thing was the reaction of the women afterwards (apart from one spoilt brat). I believe going through it once would be enough motivation to try and avoid it in the future.
Now as for the women, well i dont like generalising but i think most of them are too feeble to stand up to their men when it comes to safe sex but i think they pay the price later on. I watched a documentary about this subject a couple of months ago, very sad and quite disturbing in its goryness but the saddest thing was the reaction of the women afterwards (apart from one spoilt brat). I believe going through it once would be enough motivation to try and avoid it in the future.
Luetchyboy wrote:
> Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile
> for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was
> also probably be extremely controversial.
A hysterectomy used to be thrown in with abortions years ago (because you could only have one under mental grounds). Sex education in primary school didn't really sink in, and in secondary it was just absurd. Ie:
You need to find yourself a nice clean virgin.
Clingfilm isn't adequate protection when you're licking out a censored.
You wouldn't take a chocolate bar without the wrapper, so don't take a wee willy winkle without a condom.
Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder. Does anyone remember that Robin Williams film, where he played a robot, that thought it was sad that the rhymes with germ that failed to fertilise died. You see he wasn't all about the laughs.
> Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile
> for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was
> also probably be extremely controversial.
A hysterectomy used to be thrown in with abortions years ago (because you could only have one under mental grounds). Sex education in primary school didn't really sink in, and in secondary it was just absurd. Ie:
You need to find yourself a nice clean virgin.
Clingfilm isn't adequate protection when you're licking out a censored.
You wouldn't take a chocolate bar without the wrapper, so don't take a wee willy winkle without a condom.
Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder. Does anyone remember that Robin Williams film, where he played a robot, that thought it was sad that the rhymes with germ that failed to fertilise died. You see he wasn't all about the laughs.
Just for the record it certainly takes two to tango and maybe my previous post was putting more of the punishments on the woman, but obviously the woman is the one getting the abortion so it would not always be realistic to follow the same course of actions on the man, e.g. man unknown or dead or something.
Abortion should be an last resort not a form of contraception. I guess there is no real easy way to discourage it. Maybe as a punishment the lady should be made to watch an 2 hour coronation street special, it would certainly stop me!
But in all seriousness you would need to realistically identify those who see abortion as a simple solution and those who are deeply regretful that they have had an abortion. Perhaps a record is kept and if you have say 3 then you have to attend mandatory counseling sessions. Again this is probably unrealistic cost and privacy concerns would rank pretty high up there. Not to mention the fact the lady could just use fake details.
Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was also probably be extremely controversial. (Hell controversy is sometimes necessary to resolve issues.)
I am fortunate and have not been in a situation where a female partner has been pregnant (nearly though, but that is another story!) but I don't know how I would deal with it if I was.
But in all seriousness you would need to realistically identify those who see abortion as a simple solution and those who are deeply regretful that they have had an abortion. Perhaps a record is kept and if you have say 3 then you have to attend mandatory counseling sessions. Again this is probably unrealistic cost and privacy concerns would rank pretty high up there. Not to mention the fact the lady could just use fake details.
Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was also probably be extremely controversial. (Hell controversy is sometimes necessary to resolve issues.)
I am fortunate and have not been in a situation where a female partner has been pregnant (nearly though, but that is another story!) but I don't know how I would deal with it if I was.
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