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[S]Well the closest figure I found is from 2004 which was 185,400 but its been going up every year before then.[/S]
Babies/fetuses same thing, you say potato I say potato (umm that didnt work).
Let me just say I do think abortion should be legal, but I'm having a tough time finding an excuse as to why so many abortions are done each year. I won't go into detail about how many times I've had sexual relations (it's probably a 5 figure number ;P) but I've managed to avoid getting any of my girlfriends pregnant. Why are the rest of you (not you lot) having such a hard time pulling out?
I can udnerstand the 14 year old girl who obviously isn't in a position to have a child, but a career woman who just doesnt have the time to have a baby? Or the women who have already had two, three, four or even five abortions (one of my exes mum had 5). Seriously, try using contraception for a change.
I think there needs to be more education, both in and out of school and no I don't think primary school kids need to know, I certainly didnt start thinking about sex until high school.
Babies/fetuses same thing, you say potato I say potato (umm that didnt work).
Let me just say I do think abortion should be legal, but I'm having a tough time finding an excuse as to why so many abortions are done each year. I won't go into detail about how many times I've had sexual relations (it's probably a 5 figure number ;P) but I've managed to avoid getting any of my girlfriends pregnant. Why are the rest of you (not you lot) having such a hard time pulling out?
I can udnerstand the 14 year old girl who obviously isn't in a position to have a child, but a career woman who just doesnt have the time to have a baby? Or the women who have already had two, three, four or even five abortions (one of my exes mum had 5). Seriously, try using contraception for a change.
I think there needs to be more education, both in and out of school and no I don't think primary school kids need to know, I certainly didnt start thinking about sex until high school.
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[S]Well the closest figure I found is from 2004 which was 185,400 but its been going up every year before then.[/S]
Babies/fetuses same thing, you say potato I say potato (umm that didnt work).
Let me just say I do think abortion should be legal, but I'm having a tough time finding an excuse as to why so many abortions are done each year. I won't go into detail about how many times I've had sexual relations (it's probably a 5 figure number ;P) but I've managed to avoid getting any of my girlfriends pregnant. Why are the rest of you (not you lot) having such a hard time pulling out?
I can udnerstand the 14 year old girl who obviously isn't in a position to have a child, but a career woman who just doesnt have the time to have a baby? Or the women who have already had two, three, four or even five abortions (one of my exes mum had 5). Seriously, try using contraception for a change.
I think there needs to be more education, both in and out of school and no I don't think primary school kids need to know, I certainly didnt start thinking about sex until high school.
Babies/fetuses same thing, you say potato I say potato (umm that didnt work).
Let me just say I do think abortion should be legal, but I'm having a tough time finding an excuse as to why so many abortions are done each year. I won't go into detail about how many times I've had sexual relations (it's probably a 5 figure number ;P) but I've managed to avoid getting any of my girlfriends pregnant. Why are the rest of you (not you lot) having such a hard time pulling out?
I can udnerstand the 14 year old girl who obviously isn't in a position to have a child, but a career woman who just doesnt have the time to have a baby? Or the women who have already had two, three, four or even five abortions (one of my exes mum had 5). Seriously, try using contraception for a change.
I think there needs to be more education, both in and out of school and no I don't think primary school kids need to know, I certainly didnt start thinking about sex until high school.
Ok, I have a problem answering this, as people tend to oversimplify this subject. There are many reasons for the rate of teenage pregnancy to go up and not all abortions are due to teenage/underage pregnancy.
Firstly, no contraception is 100% unless you count not having sex at all. However, I'm sure that the results of any survey that showed unplanned pregnancy as a result of this failing would show the figures as being minimal.
Then there is the group who have sex young, I mean really young. Do we start teaching sex ed in Primary school for the benefit of these few? Again, it's not that simple. Teaching human biology in a generic sense is not a bad idea, you don't need to go into specifics. Teaching kids that young all the details will just end up with the information going over their heads.
But then there are the children who don't have respect for teachers and won't listen anyway. This is where you start getting in to the argument of parental responsibility, to both instil a sense of moral code in the child and to educate them. There should be a far greater effort to educate parents in their own responsibilities. We all know that there are far too many parents who don't even bother with any of this.
However, there will always be parents who do their best and yet the kids will still do what they want. Turning the whole argument on it's head, perhaps it's society that has it wrong and we should see teenage pregnancy as a normal progression of nature. In other cultures it's certainly not uncommon for 12 year old girls to be married and bearing children. But western society sees this as wrong, mainly (although it can be argued otherwise) because children under 16 are considered too immature. So when it comes to a child having a baby that young everything falls apart because it is considered 'wrong'.
Then there are the cases of rape, health complications due to unplanned pregnancy etc too numerous to lump in to one argument.
Finally, once all this is discussed, then we can discuss abortion as an option for the results of the above. There are, again, many issues within this. The most obvious debate comes from whether you accept a foetus as a living organism in the sense that it is sentient. Then there are the religious and moral debates that follow on from this.
In addition to this is the way women are given the choice. Should it be a difficult process that allows the woman time to think and reflect and discuss the options? Should it be as quick as going to the supermarket? Should there be discouragement first, but with a right to decide or completely impartial advice? Should it cost money or be available free on the NHS? Should there be an age limit or a tighter time limit?
My thoughts:
For the case of abortion, I would say that it should always be a choice but with a cost, mainly to give the patient something to think about (not discourage) what they are doing in a serious way. There should ALWAYS be someone on hand to provide advice and information who can present the two sides of the argument.
As to time limit, the reason why the question is difficult is because you’re asking when the foetus becomes a living thing and when it can be labelled a ‘person’. Scientific evidence seems to contradict itself on this point but if science could categorically tell us when this point is, we should use this as a basis.
Firstly, no contraception is 100% unless you count not having sex at all. However, I'm sure that the results of any survey that showed unplanned pregnancy as a result of this failing would show the figures as being minimal.
Then there is the group who have sex young, I mean really young. Do we start teaching sex ed in Primary school for the benefit of these few? Again, it's not that simple. Teaching human biology in a generic sense is not a bad idea, you don't need to go into specifics. Teaching kids that young all the details will just end up with the information going over their heads.
But then there are the children who don't have respect for teachers and won't listen anyway. This is where you start getting in to the argument of parental responsibility, to both instil a sense of moral code in the child and to educate them. There should be a far greater effort to educate parents in their own responsibilities. We all know that there are far too many parents who don't even bother with any of this.
However, there will always be parents who do their best and yet the kids will still do what they want. Turning the whole argument on it's head, perhaps it's society that has it wrong and we should see teenage pregnancy as a normal progression of nature. In other cultures it's certainly not uncommon for 12 year old girls to be married and bearing children. But western society sees this as wrong, mainly (although it can be argued otherwise) because children under 16 are considered too immature. So when it comes to a child having a baby that young everything falls apart because it is considered 'wrong'.
Then there are the cases of rape, health complications due to unplanned pregnancy etc too numerous to lump in to one argument.
Finally, once all this is discussed, then we can discuss abortion as an option for the results of the above. There are, again, many issues within this. The most obvious debate comes from whether you accept a foetus as a living organism in the sense that it is sentient. Then there are the religious and moral debates that follow on from this.
In addition to this is the way women are given the choice. Should it be a difficult process that allows the woman time to think and reflect and discuss the options? Should it be as quick as going to the supermarket? Should there be discouragement first, but with a right to decide or completely impartial advice? Should it cost money or be available free on the NHS? Should there be an age limit or a tighter time limit?
My thoughts:
For the case of abortion, I would say that it should always be a choice but with a cost, mainly to give the patient something to think about (not discourage) what they are doing in a serious way. There should ALWAYS be someone on hand to provide advice and information who can present the two sides of the argument.
As to time limit, the reason why the question is difficult is because you’re asking when the foetus becomes a living thing and when it can be labelled a ‘person’. Scientific evidence seems to contradict itself on this point but if science could categorically tell us when this point is, we should use this as a basis.
Abortion should be an last resort not a form of contraception. I guess there is no real easy way to discourage it. Maybe as a punishment the lady should be made to watch an 2 hour coronation street special, it would certainly stop me!
But in all seriousness you would need to realistically identify those who see abortion as a simple solution and those who are deeply regretful that they have had an abortion. Perhaps a record is kept and if you have say 3 then you have to attend mandatory counseling sessions. Again this is probably unrealistic cost and privacy concerns would rank pretty high up there. Not to mention the fact the lady could just use fake details.
Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was also probably be extremely controversial. (Hell controversy is sometimes necessary to resolve issues.)
I am fortunate and have not been in a situation where a female partner has been pregnant (nearly though, but that is another story!) but I don't know how I would deal with it if I was.
But in all seriousness you would need to realistically identify those who see abortion as a simple solution and those who are deeply regretful that they have had an abortion. Perhaps a record is kept and if you have say 3 then you have to attend mandatory counseling sessions. Again this is probably unrealistic cost and privacy concerns would rank pretty high up there. Not to mention the fact the lady could just use fake details.
Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was also probably be extremely controversial. (Hell controversy is sometimes necessary to resolve issues.)
I am fortunate and have not been in a situation where a female partner has been pregnant (nearly though, but that is another story!) but I don't know how I would deal with it if I was.
Just for the record it certainly takes two to tango and maybe my previous post was putting more of the punishments on the woman, but obviously the woman is the one getting the abortion so it would not always be realistic to follow the same course of actions on the man, e.g. man unknown or dead or something.
Luetchyboy wrote:
> Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile
> for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was
> also probably be extremely controversial.
A hysterectomy used to be thrown in with abortions years ago (because you could only have one under mental grounds). Sex education in primary school didn't really sink in, and in secondary it was just absurd. Ie:
You need to find yourself a nice clean virgin.
Clingfilm isn't adequate protection when you're licking out a censored.
You wouldn't take a chocolate bar without the wrapper, so don't take a wee willy winkle without a condom.
Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder. Does anyone remember that Robin Williams film, where he played a robot, that thought it was sad that the rhymes with germ that failed to fertilise died. You see he wasn't all about the laughs.
> Maybe as an drastic measure they could make the lady infertile
> for a year? That would certainly make people think twice, it was
> also probably be extremely controversial.
A hysterectomy used to be thrown in with abortions years ago (because you could only have one under mental grounds). Sex education in primary school didn't really sink in, and in secondary it was just absurd. Ie:
You need to find yourself a nice clean virgin.
Clingfilm isn't adequate protection when you're licking out a censored.
You wouldn't take a chocolate bar without the wrapper, so don't take a wee willy winkle without a condom.
Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder. Does anyone remember that Robin Williams film, where he played a robot, that thought it was sad that the rhymes with germ that failed to fertilise died. You see he wasn't all about the laughs.
My brain is a bit cloudy at the moment to reply to some of the points raised here but i'm pro-choice up until 18-20 weeks (not the current 24 week limit). I consider it the lesser of two evils when the other option is forcing someone to have a child.
Now as for the women, well i dont like generalising but i think most of them are too feeble to stand up to their men when it comes to safe sex but i think they pay the price later on. I watched a documentary about this subject a couple of months ago, very sad and quite disturbing in its goryness but the saddest thing was the reaction of the women afterwards (apart from one spoilt brat). I believe going through it once would be enough motivation to try and avoid it in the future.
Now as for the women, well i dont like generalising but i think most of them are too feeble to stand up to their men when it comes to safe sex but i think they pay the price later on. I watched a documentary about this subject a couple of months ago, very sad and quite disturbing in its goryness but the saddest thing was the reaction of the women afterwards (apart from one spoilt brat). I believe going through it once would be enough motivation to try and avoid it in the future.
Marzman wrote:
> Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as
> technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder.
That's like saying I destroyed a cake after throwing a bunch of eggs on the floor.
> Also the whole life debate will never truly be settled, as
> technically flushing semen down the toilet is murder.
That's like saying I destroyed a cake after throwing a bunch of eggs on the floor.
The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
Rape baby.
Mother or babys life in danger.
I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility for one's own actions in todays society.
Rape baby.
Mother or babys life in danger.
I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility for one's own actions in todays society.
Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in having an abortion?
It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice. You cant force someone to have a child, it's barbaric. Thats not to say the other option isnt but there are far too many unwanted children in this country already and i consider it the lesser evil.
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in having an abortion?
It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice. You cant force someone to have a child, it's barbaric. Thats not to say the other option isnt but there are far too many unwanted children in this country already and i consider it the lesser evil.
Nin wrote:
> Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
>
> You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in
> having an abortion?
> It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice.
If she didn't want to have a baby then she shouldn't have had sex. You run the risk of pregnancy when you have sex and people should understand that before they engage in such an adult situation.
I also honestly don't think anyone should have the choice to murder something created at their own hand. Everyone deserves a chance at life.
There may be consequences and responsibilities but these don't seem to matter to some people i.e. wealthy business women who have several abortions instead of using contraceptive effectively, and do any of the consequences or responsibilities equal bringing up a child?
> Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> The only circumstances I see to be acceptable for abortion are:
>
> Rape baby.
> Mother or babys life in danger.
>
> I can't stand how easy it is to avoid accepting responsibility
> for one's own actions in todays society.
>
> You dont think there are consequences and responsibility in
> having an abortion?
> It's the mother choice and only the mothers choice.
If she didn't want to have a baby then she shouldn't have had sex. You run the risk of pregnancy when you have sex and people should understand that before they engage in such an adult situation.
I also honestly don't think anyone should have the choice to murder something created at their own hand. Everyone deserves a chance at life.
There may be consequences and responsibilities but these don't seem to matter to some people i.e. wealthy business women who have several abortions instead of using contraceptive effectively, and do any of the consequences or responsibilities equal bringing up a child?
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