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So good old Pope makes a speech and during it a part of it angers and offends the muslim people because it said that Mohammad brought nothing but evil and violence into the world. Now he has a point (be it a hypocritical one considering Christianity's history) Islam is littered with violence and bloodshed throughout history but then probably not exactly wise to say such things in this day and age and someone maybe should have pointed this out to him before he went a speech making.
Although what amuses me in the whole saga is all these muslim leaders condemning the Pope's words saying how they are wrong, offensive and inaccurate and that muslims are peace loving people .........while the next images to appear on the screen are countless effigy burnings, churches being bombed and people being attacked .......ermm yea guys, well done on actually proving Pope's incidental point.
And of course this is now the start "of a new Christian crusade against Islam" *shakes head*
Will someone please open up a Starbucks in the middle east and get these guys some decafe
/sighs at world.
Although what amuses me in the whole saga is all these muslim leaders condemning the Pope's words saying how they are wrong, offensive and inaccurate and that muslims are peace loving people .........while the next images to appear on the screen are countless effigy burnings, churches being bombed and people being attacked .......ermm yea guys, well done on actually proving Pope's incidental point.
And of course this is now the start "of a new Christian crusade against Islam" *shakes head*
Will someone please open up a Starbucks in the middle east and get these guys some decafe
/sighs at world.
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Apparently it already is to one Muslim leader who called it *the start of a new christian crusade against Islam*
Everyone else with half a brain just sighed and shook their head and carried on with things though.
Everyone else with half a brain just sighed and shook their head and carried on with things though.
So with quotes from the pope and with muslim fanatic groups seemingly on the increase ... we headed for a new crusades? You'd think with the attitude of that idiot president, it's where we're headed ...
biglime wrote:
> Maybe you should, from what you've said you seem the sort filled
> with tension just waiting to lash out on an unsuspecting Muslim.
> I imagine you look down on them any time you see one across the
> street, and have to control your mental urges when he walks past
> you.
I don't mind posting my opinions on here, as all I appear to be is a screen-name (well, for most people). I hate the Muslim belief system and all of their values, but I don't hate a person for being muslim (do you catch my drift?). It's similar to the Christian views - hate the sin, love the sinner thing.
I would never physically go out my way to belittle a person because of their faith. I'm just fed up with being told by society what we have to beleive and bend over backwards to accomodate everyone into the country. In fact, I have some friends who are muslim and they think it's gone out of control - and are fully behind the comments I have made.
>Calm down.
Oh - been driving and to work today - I'm a little calmer now! Thank-you
> Maybe you should, from what you've said you seem the sort filled
> with tension just waiting to lash out on an unsuspecting Muslim.
> I imagine you look down on them any time you see one across the
> street, and have to control your mental urges when he walks past
> you.
I don't mind posting my opinions on here, as all I appear to be is a screen-name (well, for most people). I hate the Muslim belief system and all of their values, but I don't hate a person for being muslim (do you catch my drift?). It's similar to the Christian views - hate the sin, love the sinner thing.
I would never physically go out my way to belittle a person because of their faith. I'm just fed up with being told by society what we have to beleive and bend over backwards to accomodate everyone into the country. In fact, I have some friends who are muslim and they think it's gone out of control - and are fully behind the comments I have made.
>Calm down.
Oh - been driving and to work today - I'm a little calmer now! Thank-you
pb wrote:
> The Pope wishes to continue the work started by his predecessor
> to bridge the gap with Islam, but is taking a harder stance in
> suggesting that he is happy for Muslims to enjoy the same
> freedom as Christians in the western world, but this must be
> balanced with the freedom for Christians to enjoy the same
> freedom in Islamic countries without being persecuted or put to
> death for their faith.
Isn't Christianity and other religions banned in Saudi Arabia? (at least publicly) I'm sure i read that somewhere
> The Pope wishes to continue the work started by his predecessor
> to bridge the gap with Islam, but is taking a harder stance in
> suggesting that he is happy for Muslims to enjoy the same
> freedom as Christians in the western world, but this must be
> balanced with the freedom for Christians to enjoy the same
> freedom in Islamic countries without being persecuted or put to
> death for their faith.
Isn't Christianity and other religions banned in Saudi Arabia? (at least publicly) I'm sure i read that somewhere
The part of the speech which was picked up on was a very small part that involved a quote from a medievel source, and it was only part of this that caused offence, which itself was taken out of context.
However, I agree that it may not have been best to use the whole of this quote.
The passage was used to illustrate a philosophical argument about the nature of God and the Byzantine Emperor was quoted as suggesting any spreading of faith through violence was wrong, but unfortunately contained the phrase used at the time that the emperor thought Muhammad brought evil ideas such as spreading the faith through the sword.
The Pope wishes to continue the work started by his predecessor to bridge the gap with Islam, but is taking a harder stance in suggesting that he is happy for Muslims to enjoy the same freedom as Christians in the western world, but this must be balanced with the freedom for Christians to enjoy the same freedom in Islamic countries without being persecuted or put to death for their faith.
Sounds reasonable to me.
However, I agree that it may not have been best to use the whole of this quote.
The passage was used to illustrate a philosophical argument about the nature of God and the Byzantine Emperor was quoted as suggesting any spreading of faith through violence was wrong, but unfortunately contained the phrase used at the time that the emperor thought Muhammad brought evil ideas such as spreading the faith through the sword.
The Pope wishes to continue the work started by his predecessor to bridge the gap with Islam, but is taking a harder stance in suggesting that he is happy for Muslims to enjoy the same freedom as Christians in the western world, but this must be balanced with the freedom for Christians to enjoy the same freedom in Islamic countries without being persecuted or put to death for their faith.
Sounds reasonable to me.
pb wrote:
> I believe that the quote is perhaps taken out of context, but I
> will still burn down your house and burn efigies of you for
> saying it... :)
:-D
I've always wondered just how on earth they get them done so quick. Within hours they are out burning effigy's and flags. I'm sure there's some flag salesman out there going up to people and saying *Hey you'll never guess what those Italians said ................ want to buy an Italian flag? I just happen to have 50 on me right this moment. Very good sir, thank you*
> I believe that the quote is perhaps taken out of context, but I
> will still burn down your house and burn efigies of you for
> saying it... :)
:-D
I've always wondered just how on earth they get them done so quick. Within hours they are out burning effigy's and flags. I'm sure there's some flag salesman out there going up to people and saying *Hey you'll never guess what those Italians said ................ want to buy an Italian flag? I just happen to have 50 on me right this moment. Very good sir, thank you*
biglime wrote:
> There was the story of the two churches being burnt. Note that
> churches in the past, even those in Muslim majority countries
> have never been tampered with. Why do you think this is? Because
> Muslims believe that places of worship, despite the faith should
> have its own place. This is in stark contrast to mosques here,
> which have faced frequent attacks since 9/11.
Never been tampered with eh? A quick 10 second search on google already gives 2 accounts in Nigeria alone back in 2002 and 2003 where 15-20 churches were burned down in angry protests and riots.
> There was the story of the two churches being burnt. Note that
> churches in the past, even those in Muslim majority countries
> have never been tampered with. Why do you think this is? Because
> Muslims believe that places of worship, despite the faith should
> have its own place. This is in stark contrast to mosques here,
> which have faced frequent attacks since 9/11.
Never been tampered with eh? A quick 10 second search on google already gives 2 accounts in Nigeria alone back in 2002 and 2003 where 15-20 churches were burned down in angry protests and riots.
hippyman wrote:
> This topic is getting to be really annoying. I don't know what
> to do to kep Muslims happy in this country. But I guess it's one
> set of rules for one group and one set of rules for another (I
> mean all these terrorists are Muslim and condeming the west
> saying they're all to blame - whilst the pope says something
> quite true and he is some archdemon in the islamic world).
>
> Perhaps I should stop writing, I don't want put over my full-on
> true feelings on this matter!
Maybe you should, from what you've said you seem the sort filled with tension just waiting to lash out on an unsuspecting Muslim. I imagine you look down on them any time you see one across the street, and have to control your mental urges when he walks past you. Calm down.
> This topic is getting to be really annoying. I don't know what
> to do to kep Muslims happy in this country. But I guess it's one
> set of rules for one group and one set of rules for another (I
> mean all these terrorists are Muslim and condeming the west
> saying they're all to blame - whilst the pope says something
> quite true and he is some archdemon in the islamic world).
>
> Perhaps I should stop writing, I don't want put over my full-on
> true feelings on this matter!
Maybe you should, from what you've said you seem the sort filled with tension just waiting to lash out on an unsuspecting Muslim. I imagine you look down on them any time you see one across the street, and have to control your mental urges when he walks past you. Calm down.
That's the press for you, they love cutting sections up and manipulating things. Rupert Murdoch has had a tight monopoly of the press for a long time.
Given the current tensions across the globe, the Pope was wrong to include what he said in the speech. It was shortsighted to think he could get away when writing the speech, his point could have been put across just as well without the reference. He could have also used another reference, like recalling one of the many Christian crusades in the past that have ended in violence throughout history, but he knew full well that choosing the single reference which placed Muslims in a bad light would have gone down bad.
There was the story of the two churches being burnt. Note that churches in the past, even those in Muslim majority countries have never been tampered with. Why do you think this is? Because Muslims believe that places of worship, despite the faith should have its own place. This is in stark contrast to mosques here, which have faced frequent attacks since 9/11. Come to think of it, why are there so many Christian Lebanese if they couldn't get along in a previously Muslim country?
The reason why Muslims are outraged is because the Pope, who is the leader of the Catholic faith and regarded as the main representative the world all over, and the main branch of Christianity, has openly included the quote without balancing it out. He knew what would happen eventually, but then again he used to attend the Hitler Youth.
Given the current tensions across the globe, the Pope was wrong to include what he said in the speech. It was shortsighted to think he could get away when writing the speech, his point could have been put across just as well without the reference. He could have also used another reference, like recalling one of the many Christian crusades in the past that have ended in violence throughout history, but he knew full well that choosing the single reference which placed Muslims in a bad light would have gone down bad.
There was the story of the two churches being burnt. Note that churches in the past, even those in Muslim majority countries have never been tampered with. Why do you think this is? Because Muslims believe that places of worship, despite the faith should have its own place. This is in stark contrast to mosques here, which have faced frequent attacks since 9/11. Come to think of it, why are there so many Christian Lebanese if they couldn't get along in a previously Muslim country?
The reason why Muslims are outraged is because the Pope, who is the leader of the Catholic faith and regarded as the main representative the world all over, and the main branch of Christianity, has openly included the quote without balancing it out. He knew what would happen eventually, but then again he used to attend the Hitler Youth.
Anybody see The Bigger Picture last night? There was a whole piece on this and they weren't too afraid to say it.
Then they sai that Muslims were never violent and always went to resolve things peacefuly (quoting the head of some Muslim society) quickly proceeding to a picture of some men (whowere assumed to be Muslim) rioting.
Made me laugh for a while anyway
Then they sai that Muslims were never violent and always went to resolve things peacefuly (quoting the head of some Muslim society) quickly proceeding to a picture of some men (whowere assumed to be Muslim) rioting.
Made me laugh for a while anyway
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