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"Your PS3 questions answered - well, some of them..."

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Mon 02/09/02 at 20:38
Regular
Posts: 787
Most of us know that there's a PlayStation 3 on the way, and many people are starting to ask questions about what the machine will offer. So I've scoured the net, and tried to piece all of the information together, for those that are interested. So, before anyone accuses me of copying... this is my own work, but incorporates information from a number of different websites - no Copy & Paste except where exact quotes are used!

-----

As we know, the machine will be powered by a custom chip called The Cell, developed jointly by Sony, IBM and Toshiba. The design is complete, and engineers will soon be creating samples of the chip, with commercial production possibly starting as soon as the end of 2004. While The Cell will feature exclusively in the PS3, there are elements of the design which IBM hope to include in future server chips.

The problem with this new chip is that designing software for it could be even more of a challenge than designing the chip itself. But the chip itself is exactly what developers have asked for in the past.

Just after the launch of the original PlayStation in 1993, Shin'ichi Okamoto (Senior Vice President and CTO of Sony Computer Entertainment) asked an in-house developer at Sony what sort of power they'd need to create their ideal game. The developer replied "18,000 times the processing power of PS1". After the launch of PS2 (300 times the power of PS1), the same question was asked, and the developer replied "1,000 times the power of PS2" - and that is what Sony are trying to achieve.

But back to the software. It will take a significant leap in software development to get the best from the new chip. Richard Doherty, analyst at Envisioneering Group research firm, says "we believe the chip architecture is going to be on time and ahead of the software wizardry that is going to really make it get up and dance."

Sony demonstrated an early model to a select audience in July this year, and it seems that much of the work on The Cell is complete - although a physical chip is yet to be produced. This is where Sony's alliance with IBM and Toshiba really kicks in. Sony are effectively trying to overcome Moore's Law - that processing power roughly doubles every 18 months. What Sony are attempting would condense 20 years of Moore's Law into 5, and if they achieve that, it could be bad news for other chip manufacturers.

The Cell is basically a distributed computing network (i.e. multiple processors) on one single chip, and so Sony are looking at using IBM's silicon-on-insulator process on the new chip design. This allows transistors to be packed more densely, allowing 500 million or more on a single chip. As a guide, PS2's Emotion Engine has 13 million transistors.

"This means that Sony will be able to design its chips to take advantage of a manufacturing process that doesn't yet exist," says Bijan Davari, vice president for technology and emerging products at IBM. "By combining improvements in chip architecture, software, circuit design, and manufacturing, this is how we move toward a thousand times current performance." Apparently, this decision could pressure Microsoft into spending far more money on the development of the next Xbox if they want to compete.

The Cell is also set to feature 256MB of on-chip RAM. The machine as a whole will contain a slot-loading disc system, and possibly use Blu-Ray discs (capable of storing up to 27Gb) and be capable of rendering 6 texture layers in a single pass. It will also be the first Sony machine to feature four controller ports as standard.

Sony also hope that cell-computing chips will also be used in other devices such as TVs, camcorders and other electronic devices, rather than just the PS3. That way, production costs will fall far quicker.

In terms of the competition, nothing is yet known about any Nintendo successor to Gamecube, but Xbox2 is unlikely to receive any custom chips. Intel have no match for IBM's silicon-on-insulator process, and they also do not customise chips for specific purposes. Nvidia and other Xbox chip suppliers could only produce custom chips with funding from Microsoft. MS are expected to lose hundreds of millions of dollars on Xbox, and branching into custom ship design would add significantly to those losses. However, if they want to compete in the next generation battle, they may have to accept those losses.

But don't expect PS3 any time soon. Criterion recently confirmed that they believe Halo would be perfectly possibly on PS2, and stated that even with the increased number of polygons in Burnout 2 they're still only scratching the surface of PS2. Sony have revealed that developer Lost Boys have been working on a Halo-esque FPS since August 2000, with work on the game engine starting months before that. Sony clearly expect to get at least another 4 or 5 years out of PS2.


Web sources:
http://freeola.com
http://www.chinapost.com
http://www.zdnet.com
http://www.redherring.com
http://www.consolewire.com
http://www.gamespy.com

Print sources:
PSM2
UK Official PS2 magazine
Mon 02/09/02 at 20:38
"High polygon count"
Posts: 15,624
Most of us know that there's a PlayStation 3 on the way, and many people are starting to ask questions about what the machine will offer. So I've scoured the net, and tried to piece all of the information together, for those that are interested. So, before anyone accuses me of copying... this is my own work, but incorporates information from a number of different websites - no Copy & Paste except where exact quotes are used!

-----

As we know, the machine will be powered by a custom chip called The Cell, developed jointly by Sony, IBM and Toshiba. The design is complete, and engineers will soon be creating samples of the chip, with commercial production possibly starting as soon as the end of 2004. While The Cell will feature exclusively in the PS3, there are elements of the design which IBM hope to include in future server chips.

The problem with this new chip is that designing software for it could be even more of a challenge than designing the chip itself. But the chip itself is exactly what developers have asked for in the past.

Just after the launch of the original PlayStation in 1993, Shin'ichi Okamoto (Senior Vice President and CTO of Sony Computer Entertainment) asked an in-house developer at Sony what sort of power they'd need to create their ideal game. The developer replied "18,000 times the processing power of PS1". After the launch of PS2 (300 times the power of PS1), the same question was asked, and the developer replied "1,000 times the power of PS2" - and that is what Sony are trying to achieve.

But back to the software. It will take a significant leap in software development to get the best from the new chip. Richard Doherty, analyst at Envisioneering Group research firm, says "we believe the chip architecture is going to be on time and ahead of the software wizardry that is going to really make it get up and dance."

Sony demonstrated an early model to a select audience in July this year, and it seems that much of the work on The Cell is complete - although a physical chip is yet to be produced. This is where Sony's alliance with IBM and Toshiba really kicks in. Sony are effectively trying to overcome Moore's Law - that processing power roughly doubles every 18 months. What Sony are attempting would condense 20 years of Moore's Law into 5, and if they achieve that, it could be bad news for other chip manufacturers.

The Cell is basically a distributed computing network (i.e. multiple processors) on one single chip, and so Sony are looking at using IBM's silicon-on-insulator process on the new chip design. This allows transistors to be packed more densely, allowing 500 million or more on a single chip. As a guide, PS2's Emotion Engine has 13 million transistors.

"This means that Sony will be able to design its chips to take advantage of a manufacturing process that doesn't yet exist," says Bijan Davari, vice president for technology and emerging products at IBM. "By combining improvements in chip architecture, software, circuit design, and manufacturing, this is how we move toward a thousand times current performance." Apparently, this decision could pressure Microsoft into spending far more money on the development of the next Xbox if they want to compete.

The Cell is also set to feature 256MB of on-chip RAM. The machine as a whole will contain a slot-loading disc system, and possibly use Blu-Ray discs (capable of storing up to 27Gb) and be capable of rendering 6 texture layers in a single pass. It will also be the first Sony machine to feature four controller ports as standard.

Sony also hope that cell-computing chips will also be used in other devices such as TVs, camcorders and other electronic devices, rather than just the PS3. That way, production costs will fall far quicker.

In terms of the competition, nothing is yet known about any Nintendo successor to Gamecube, but Xbox2 is unlikely to receive any custom chips. Intel have no match for IBM's silicon-on-insulator process, and they also do not customise chips for specific purposes. Nvidia and other Xbox chip suppliers could only produce custom chips with funding from Microsoft. MS are expected to lose hundreds of millions of dollars on Xbox, and branching into custom ship design would add significantly to those losses. However, if they want to compete in the next generation battle, they may have to accept those losses.

But don't expect PS3 any time soon. Criterion recently confirmed that they believe Halo would be perfectly possibly on PS2, and stated that even with the increased number of polygons in Burnout 2 they're still only scratching the surface of PS2. Sony have revealed that developer Lost Boys have been working on a Halo-esque FPS since August 2000, with work on the game engine starting months before that. Sony clearly expect to get at least another 4 or 5 years out of PS2.


Web sources:
http://freeola.com
http://www.chinapost.com
http://www.zdnet.com
http://www.redherring.com
http://www.consolewire.com
http://www.gamespy.com

Print sources:
PSM2
UK Official PS2 magazine
Mon 02/09/02 at 20:47
Posts: 3,348
cool infor there, answers some questions
Mon 02/09/02 at 20:49
Posts: 0
Wow, you certainly put some effort into the research, and certainly dug up some information that I hadn't read about yet.

I did read about the PS3 in the latest PSW magazine. They don't seem to believe half of the information. From what I read, the PS3 will have 512MB system memory and a 50 GB hard drive, in addition to the things that you have mentioned. It all sounds to good to be true, but then again, I expect it was the same during the PSOne period when we were reading about the PS2.
Who knows?

Do you believe any of it?
Mon 02/09/02 at 20:52
Regular
Posts: 5,630
One question that crops up in my mind is - where is it going to end?

You can't tell me that the PS2's power has been harnessed to it's full capabilities. Look at the PSone's performance at the beginning and at the end of its lifespan, there was tons more coaxed out of the machine.

Even though we are ages away from PS3, I think it's all too soon. What are we going to get on PS3 - Ridge Racer 6 with graphics that could be produced on a PS2?
Mon 02/09/02 at 21:01
Posts: 0
There is still quite a lot to be had from the PS2 yet.

If my memory serves me correctly, some developers tested this tool on GT3 that tells you how much of the PS2's power was being used up, and it didn't even make it to half (please correct me if I am wrong).
Mon 02/09/02 at 21:21
"High polygon count"
Posts: 15,624
RM18 wrote:
> You can't tell me that the PS2's power has been harnessed to it's full
> capabilities. Look at the PSone's performance at the beginning and at
> the end of its lifespan, there was tons more coaxed out of the
> machine.

Very true - which is why PS2 is expected to do the business for another 4 or 5 years.

Developers are still dragging more and more out of the system. As I've said before, because of its internal design, I believe PS2 has more room to develop than the other platforms. We're three years after launch now, and we are still seeing better and better performance from the machine - and we're not finished yet.
Mon 02/09/02 at 21:21
"High polygon count"
Posts: 15,624
Tyrael wrote:
> If my memory serves me correctly, some developers tested this tool on
> GT3 that tells you how much of the PS2's power was being used up, and
> it didn't even make it to half (please correct me if I am wrong).

That's very true. I think the term was "doesn't even touch the sides of what PS2 can do".
Mon 02/09/02 at 21:21
"High polygon count"
Posts: 15,624
Tyrael wrote:
> Do you believe any of it?

I think 'believe' is the wrong word. Perhaps 'trust' is a better word.

We know for sure that Sony, IBM and Toshiba are working on The Cell - and they obviously believe that it is possible. I'm sure that they will achieve it, but wether that will be in the time-frame they've given themselves, I'm not sure - though they say they are currently on track.

The Moore's Law issue is questionable; while it has held true so far, I don't see any reason that it can't be broken. As technology improves, there's no reason that CPU speeds can't go higher than doubling every 18 months.

Most of the other information depends largely on whether or not they get The Cell functioning as expected, but the details of the machine's loading system and disc type are certainly al lpossible, because the technology exists here and now.
Tue 03/09/02 at 07:50
"For the horde!!!!"
Posts: 3,656
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> Most of us know that there's a PlayStation 3 on the way, and many
> people are starting to ask questions about what the machine will
> offer.

sounds a very cool console, wounder what the RRP of it will be when it arrives.

>
> The problem with this new chip is that designing software for it could
> be even more of a challenge than designing the chip itself. But the
> chip itself is exactly what developers have asked for in the past.

i read that they are making the chip so it's easier to program games for it.

the same question was asked, and the developer replied
> "1,000 times the power of PS2" - and that is what Sony are
> trying to achieve.

wow if there were to reach that target then there would be almost no limits to how games could work and function. (entire games worlds that function wherether the player is in a certain area or not and without any loading screens)


> But back to the software. It will take a significant leap in software
> development to get the best from the new chip. Richard Doherty,
> analyst at Envisioneering Group research firm, says "we believe
> the chip architecture is going to be on time and ahead of the software
> wizardry that is going to really make it get up and dance."

this is only a good thing. No more "oh the PS can't handle it" blah blah


> toward a thousand times current performance." Apparently, this
> decision could pressure Microsoft into spending far more money on the
> development of the next Xbox if they want to compete.

What Microsoft spend money! heaven forbid :P


> Blu-Ray discs (capable of storing up to 27Gb) and be capable of
> rendering 6 texture layers in a single pass. It will also be the
> first Sony machine to feature four controller ports as standard.

27GB? thats like a third of a PC Hard drive! cool


> In terms of the competition, nothing is yet known about any Nintendo
> successor to Gamecube, but Xbox2 is unlikely to receive any custom
> chips. Intel have no match for IBM's silicon-on-insulator process,
> and they also do not customise chips for specific purposes. Nvidia
> and other Xbox chip suppliers could only produce custom chips with
> funding from Microsoft. MS are expected to lose hundreds of millions
> of dollars on Xbox, and branching into custom ship design would add
> significantly to those losses. However, if they want to compete in
> the next generation battle, they may have to accept those losses.

Well thets hope they can close the gap, it's better for the players if a console war is in motion as they always try to out do each other.
>
Criterion recently confirmed that
> they believe Halo would be perfectly possibly on PS2,

i can't belive i just read this! imagine all the grins been wiped off the faces of these Xbox fanboys


> Sony have revealed that developer
> Lost Boys have been working on a Halo-esque FPS since August 2000,
> with work on the game engine starting months before that. Sony
> clearly expect to get at least another 4 or 5 years out of PS2.

Nice one :D
Tue 03/09/02 at 09:04
Regular
"  "
Posts: 7,549
PSW says,

"Playstation3 was announced this month. Or perhaps... not. A detailed and almost fictional report spoke of a secret PS3 unveiling to top Japanese business men, at which the specs - 50GB hard drive, DVD blu-ray, 512MB of system memory and, oh lordy, yes four controller ports - and styling - convex case, DVD slot instead of tray - were revealed, along with a Tekken tech demo from namco and Dynasty Warriors characters from Koei. The joypads were described as 'Triple Shocks' with a third analogue stick and slots for Sony's increasingly ubiquitous Memory Sticks. Fact or fiction? We will know... in 2006."

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