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After a long time in the cold, could it be the X-Box is about to get, not one, but 2 shooters? But wich one will be the better? Halo 2 or Doom 3...But hold on, what about Quake 4? With Halo 2 and Doom 3 both on XBox, Quake 4 on the PS2 could be just what Sony needs. Mario doesnt look so clever now!
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Halo 2 or Doom 3?
Have you played either?
Has anyone?
Go Mafia!!!
Huzzah!
Have you played either?
Has anyone?
Go Mafia!!!
Huzzah!
ice_cool_87 wrote:
> In my opinion I would say Halo 2 would be a better buy as i have
> prefered Halo to Doom ever since I first played Halo. It is an amazing
> game with great graphics and vehicles Does doom have vehicles in it i
> dont think so.
How on earth can you compare the two???? Doom 2 is what, maybe ten years old. There is no way you can compare them until we get more info about doom 3
> In my opinion I would say Halo 2 would be a better buy as i have
> prefered Halo to Doom ever since I first played Halo. It is an amazing
> game with great graphics and vehicles Does doom have vehicles in it i
> dont think so.
How on earth can you compare the two???? Doom 2 is what, maybe ten years old. There is no way you can compare them until we get more info about doom 3
Im gonna get both games for my xbox. Halo 2 will be amazing as well as Doom III
i'm actually quite worried about metroid cos of that lock on and the problem that plagued halo of repetitive textures (like most of the indoor environments in halo looked the same). i'm still looking forward to the game...might even exceed my expectations
Strafex wrote:
> Looking at ID's games, every improvement they make is Technical.
> Wolfenstien was their first shot - a very basic first attempt.
> The Doom series took things forward with multi story levels and a
> basic internet play.
I wouldn't say all their efforts are put into technically updating previous games, though that's a trend they seem to having right now with games like wolfanstein. Instead I think they poor more effort into the multiplayer side of the games. Return To Castle Wolfenstein has one of the best FPS multiplayer modes I've seen in a game, unfortunately, it has one of the crappest single player modes.
> The first Quake used polygon graphics for the first "true"
> 3D.
> Quake 2 made even nicer graphics.
> Quake 3 gave even nicer graphics and added AI simulant bots...
Quake did ad nicer graphics, but it got praise from updateing the multiplayer support of previous FPS which paved the way for games like Unreal Tournament, Quake 3: Arena and Counter Strike.
> All great technical updates but no real imagination.
> Now we're at a level where technical improvements are more or less
> down to nicer graphics and it's gameplay idea's that count.
That's true. I have however got a FPS on my PC, which is easily one of the best I've played for ages. Its called No One Lives Forever and it integrates almost all features created from the FPSA genre. It's got sniping levels, stealth levels, all out shooting levels and even some small driving levels. These levels, also aren't boring like many other FPS, for example at one point you’ll find yourself diving out of a plane with no parachute trying to catch up with someone below you and get his, while fighting off enemies who jump down after you.
It's a game, which shows developers how FPS should be made. If you can't find new ideas, fine just make a game with older ideas; just push them more past the limit. It'd be great if developers did think like this, as we might then actually get great FPS all the time instead of just updates.
> Yep. A year AFTER Goldeneye, the PC finally got it's own game with
> headshots, decent guard AI, nice animation, etc...
> And another thing. Half Life being as clever was, in terms of design,
> it wasn't designed by ID. It used the Quake 2 engine, but the clever
> idea's came from a different set of heads (Serria, so I've heard).
It was VALVe who made Half-Life, and not a bad start to say it the developer’s first attempt at a FPS. It's a big game, which had an involving storyline, a mass of puzzles to complete which gave a break from the non stop action, and also provided game play which tested the mind as much as the trigger finger, not to mention small features such as a proper living environment which you get to see at the beginning of the game, some of the best A.I. for the time, and a decent graphics engine which brought the game world to life.
> Goldeneye. It redefined the genre, beating Half Life to that honour by
> a whole year!
That was until Half-Life came out, and agian redefined the genre in more way than any other FPS of the time.
> I'm not sure if you've played Perfect Dark or Goldeneye (your posts
> indicate that you've not seen much of them), but they both put in
> tonnes of fresh ideas, and were designed in a unique way.
No I haven't played either, but I have heard and read enough to know something about each game.
> Each ID game boasts better graphics.
As well as extended Multiplayer support.
> Each new Rare game boasts new ideas.
> I know which one excites me more.
I'd be very interested in seeing just what new ideas can be squeezed from this genre. But don't get me wrong, I also have a GC so am looking forward to Perfect Dark Zero and Meteoroid Prime, It's just I don't think they can offer anything new ideas wise.
Also, you seem to be only looking at games like Doom, Quake, Soldier of Fortune ect.. when you look at PC FPS, but you miss much more innovative, games of this genre which 'do' have new ideas.
System Shock 2
A Survival Horror game in a FPS mould, it sees you trying to find out what happened on a science ship your aboard of which all the crew have been turned into mutants by an alien force. It's not a typical FPS, for one you can choose whether or not to be a Psi Corp agent, which gives you special magic like abilities, a computer technician, which allows you to hack through locked doors and computer terminal or a part of the Marine Corp and learn all their is to know about shooting stuff.
You can also research parts of fallen enemies which helps you learn about their weak spots, find upgrades which improves certain parts of your body such as vision and strength and also choose whether or not to go stealthy, or just everything in sight. It's more of a thinking man's FPS.
Deus Ex
A game, which is similar to system, shock in that you can upgrade yourself, only this, games more extensive. It's also a game, which creates one of the best environments I've seen in a FPS as it actually makes you feel like you’re in a living-breathing world. It also gives you the opportunity to make you own decisions regardless of the consequences. Go around and kill every bad guy there is, or help them and defy your superiors; this also applies to how you tackle missions. Approach them stealthy, go in with guns blazing, or even buy information off people near by which will help you complete the mission. A game which lets you play it pretty much any way you want, what more could you ask for?
Thief 1&2
A stealth game, but one with a difference, it's set in the olden days where the only weapons at your disposal are a bow and arrow, a sword and a club. This makes for one of the most challenging stealth games I've ever played, but one of the most rewarding. As you'd expect, you’re a thief in a huge city who occasionally gets contracted for a few law-breaking jobs. The game takes you from the city rooftops, huge and expensive buildings, banks, police station ect.. but the reason I say it's rewarding is because it allows you to steal money and other treasures. As you progress through the levels you can steal pretty much anything which you find, and you'll want to as well as the more money you get, the more weapons and supplies you can buy for the next mission.
Goldeneye may have introduced the stealth element to the genre, but Thief takes it the next level and beyond.
There are other games I could mention, but I won't now, this post has taken bloody ages to write, I need a rest.
> Looking at ID's games, every improvement they make is Technical.
> Wolfenstien was their first shot - a very basic first attempt.
> The Doom series took things forward with multi story levels and a
> basic internet play.
I wouldn't say all their efforts are put into technically updating previous games, though that's a trend they seem to having right now with games like wolfanstein. Instead I think they poor more effort into the multiplayer side of the games. Return To Castle Wolfenstein has one of the best FPS multiplayer modes I've seen in a game, unfortunately, it has one of the crappest single player modes.
> The first Quake used polygon graphics for the first "true"
> 3D.
> Quake 2 made even nicer graphics.
> Quake 3 gave even nicer graphics and added AI simulant bots...
Quake did ad nicer graphics, but it got praise from updateing the multiplayer support of previous FPS which paved the way for games like Unreal Tournament, Quake 3: Arena and Counter Strike.
> All great technical updates but no real imagination.
> Now we're at a level where technical improvements are more or less
> down to nicer graphics and it's gameplay idea's that count.
That's true. I have however got a FPS on my PC, which is easily one of the best I've played for ages. Its called No One Lives Forever and it integrates almost all features created from the FPSA genre. It's got sniping levels, stealth levels, all out shooting levels and even some small driving levels. These levels, also aren't boring like many other FPS, for example at one point you’ll find yourself diving out of a plane with no parachute trying to catch up with someone below you and get his, while fighting off enemies who jump down after you.
It's a game, which shows developers how FPS should be made. If you can't find new ideas, fine just make a game with older ideas; just push them more past the limit. It'd be great if developers did think like this, as we might then actually get great FPS all the time instead of just updates.
> Yep. A year AFTER Goldeneye, the PC finally got it's own game with
> headshots, decent guard AI, nice animation, etc...
> And another thing. Half Life being as clever was, in terms of design,
> it wasn't designed by ID. It used the Quake 2 engine, but the clever
> idea's came from a different set of heads (Serria, so I've heard).
It was VALVe who made Half-Life, and not a bad start to say it the developer’s first attempt at a FPS. It's a big game, which had an involving storyline, a mass of puzzles to complete which gave a break from the non stop action, and also provided game play which tested the mind as much as the trigger finger, not to mention small features such as a proper living environment which you get to see at the beginning of the game, some of the best A.I. for the time, and a decent graphics engine which brought the game world to life.
> Goldeneye. It redefined the genre, beating Half Life to that honour by
> a whole year!
That was until Half-Life came out, and agian redefined the genre in more way than any other FPS of the time.
> I'm not sure if you've played Perfect Dark or Goldeneye (your posts
> indicate that you've not seen much of them), but they both put in
> tonnes of fresh ideas, and were designed in a unique way.
No I haven't played either, but I have heard and read enough to know something about each game.
> Each ID game boasts better graphics.
As well as extended Multiplayer support.
> Each new Rare game boasts new ideas.
> I know which one excites me more.
I'd be very interested in seeing just what new ideas can be squeezed from this genre. But don't get me wrong, I also have a GC so am looking forward to Perfect Dark Zero and Meteoroid Prime, It's just I don't think they can offer anything new ideas wise.
Also, you seem to be only looking at games like Doom, Quake, Soldier of Fortune ect.. when you look at PC FPS, but you miss much more innovative, games of this genre which 'do' have new ideas.
System Shock 2
A Survival Horror game in a FPS mould, it sees you trying to find out what happened on a science ship your aboard of which all the crew have been turned into mutants by an alien force. It's not a typical FPS, for one you can choose whether or not to be a Psi Corp agent, which gives you special magic like abilities, a computer technician, which allows you to hack through locked doors and computer terminal or a part of the Marine Corp and learn all their is to know about shooting stuff.
You can also research parts of fallen enemies which helps you learn about their weak spots, find upgrades which improves certain parts of your body such as vision and strength and also choose whether or not to go stealthy, or just everything in sight. It's more of a thinking man's FPS.
Deus Ex
A game, which is similar to system, shock in that you can upgrade yourself, only this, games more extensive. It's also a game, which creates one of the best environments I've seen in a FPS as it actually makes you feel like you’re in a living-breathing world. It also gives you the opportunity to make you own decisions regardless of the consequences. Go around and kill every bad guy there is, or help them and defy your superiors; this also applies to how you tackle missions. Approach them stealthy, go in with guns blazing, or even buy information off people near by which will help you complete the mission. A game which lets you play it pretty much any way you want, what more could you ask for?
Thief 1&2
A stealth game, but one with a difference, it's set in the olden days where the only weapons at your disposal are a bow and arrow, a sword and a club. This makes for one of the most challenging stealth games I've ever played, but one of the most rewarding. As you'd expect, you’re a thief in a huge city who occasionally gets contracted for a few law-breaking jobs. The game takes you from the city rooftops, huge and expensive buildings, banks, police station ect.. but the reason I say it's rewarding is because it allows you to steal money and other treasures. As you progress through the levels you can steal pretty much anything which you find, and you'll want to as well as the more money you get, the more weapons and supplies you can buy for the next mission.
Goldeneye may have introduced the stealth element to the genre, but Thief takes it the next level and beyond.
There are other games I could mention, but I won't now, this post has taken bloody ages to write, I need a rest.
Rare, no expirence huh? And just how many decent FSP did Bungee make before Halo? In fact, without having to research, how many games made by Bungee do you even know of? Because I certainly haven't heard of them until Halo.
Anyway as it stands, Doom III will easily be the best. Unreal games suck, as for Quake, don't make me laugh, pathetic excuse for a FSP. Metroid Prime is based round very fast paced action (hence the lock-on) so thats going to be fantastic, not least because of it's different approach. Perfect Dark: Zero is going to rule. Halo 2 will undoubtibly be a fantastic game as well, but I never felt Halo added anything new or exciting, it just did everything that had been done for very well. Hopefully Halo 2 will also add some new techniques and ideas as well.
Anyway as it stands, Doom III will easily be the best. Unreal games suck, as for Quake, don't make me laugh, pathetic excuse for a FSP. Metroid Prime is based round very fast paced action (hence the lock-on) so thats going to be fantastic, not least because of it's different approach. Perfect Dark: Zero is going to rule. Halo 2 will undoubtibly be a fantastic game as well, but I never felt Halo added anything new or exciting, it just did everything that had been done for very well. Hopefully Halo 2 will also add some new techniques and ideas as well.
cipro wrote:
>
> That's not what I said, but even though they have more experience,
> they still don't know the genre as good as Id who've been at FPS games
> for years, creating some of the best.
Looking at ID's games, every improvement they make is Technical.
Wolfenstien was their first shot - a very basic first attempt.
The Doom series took things forward with multi story levels and a basic internet play.
The first Quake used polygon graphics for the first "true" 3D.
Quake 2 made even nicer graphics.
Quake 3 gave even nicer graphics and added AI simulant bots...
All great technical updates but no real imagination.
Now we're at a level where technical improvements are more or less down to nicer graphics and it's gameplay idea's that count.
> I thought the timeline went from Doom which created a much more
> involving FPS than any other game which came before it, and introduced
> some of the elements still used in modern FPS.
Then to Quake which
> gave the genre a brand new graphics engine as well as the first online
> multiplayer support for which the game was praised for.
So far you're right. That's before consoles started having "proper" FPS games. Infact, Quake 2 was released just after Goldeneye.
In terms of graphics and polygon pushing, the game designed for state of the art PC's out-did the game for a year old console.
But Goldeneye was far more impressive as a game.
No game before it had involved sniping, stealth, headshots etc...
And then onto
> Half-Life which recycled the old ideas of the genre and revamped them
> for new generation, with great success. Plus it had a story which
> involved the player more than any other FPS I've played.
Yep. A year AFTER Goldeneye, the PC finally got it's own game with headshots, decent guard AI, nice animation, etc...
And another thing. Half Life being as clever was, in terms of design, it wasn't designed by ID. It used the Quake 2 engine, but the clever idea's came from a different set of heads (Serria, so I've heard).
> And before you send a reply defending your consoles FPS, don't. I
> never said I was against these types of games on consoles, but to me
> they offer nothing I haven't seen before.
Goldeneye. It redefined the genre, beating Half Life to that honour by a whole year!
The same goes for most PC
> FPS as well, so don't think I'm discriminating. The trouble is this
> genre has been so overused that all the good and original ideas have
> been exhausted; so most games of this genre these days are nothing
> more than graphical updates, console or PC.
I'm not sure if you've played Perfect Dark or Goldeneye (your posts indicate that you've not seen much of them), but they both put in tonnes of fresh ideas, and were designed in a unique way.
Each ID game boasts better graphics.
Each new Rare game boasts new ideas.
I know which one excites me more.
>
> That's not what I said, but even though they have more experience,
> they still don't know the genre as good as Id who've been at FPS games
> for years, creating some of the best.
Looking at ID's games, every improvement they make is Technical.
Wolfenstien was their first shot - a very basic first attempt.
The Doom series took things forward with multi story levels and a basic internet play.
The first Quake used polygon graphics for the first "true" 3D.
Quake 2 made even nicer graphics.
Quake 3 gave even nicer graphics and added AI simulant bots...
All great technical updates but no real imagination.
Now we're at a level where technical improvements are more or less down to nicer graphics and it's gameplay idea's that count.
> I thought the timeline went from Doom which created a much more
> involving FPS than any other game which came before it, and introduced
> some of the elements still used in modern FPS.
Then to Quake which
> gave the genre a brand new graphics engine as well as the first online
> multiplayer support for which the game was praised for.
So far you're right. That's before consoles started having "proper" FPS games. Infact, Quake 2 was released just after Goldeneye.
In terms of graphics and polygon pushing, the game designed for state of the art PC's out-did the game for a year old console.
But Goldeneye was far more impressive as a game.
No game before it had involved sniping, stealth, headshots etc...
And then onto
> Half-Life which recycled the old ideas of the genre and revamped them
> for new generation, with great success. Plus it had a story which
> involved the player more than any other FPS I've played.
Yep. A year AFTER Goldeneye, the PC finally got it's own game with headshots, decent guard AI, nice animation, etc...
And another thing. Half Life being as clever was, in terms of design, it wasn't designed by ID. It used the Quake 2 engine, but the clever idea's came from a different set of heads (Serria, so I've heard).
> And before you send a reply defending your consoles FPS, don't. I
> never said I was against these types of games on consoles, but to me
> they offer nothing I haven't seen before.
Goldeneye. It redefined the genre, beating Half Life to that honour by a whole year!
The same goes for most PC
> FPS as well, so don't think I'm discriminating. The trouble is this
> genre has been so overused that all the good and original ideas have
> been exhausted; so most games of this genre these days are nothing
> more than graphical updates, console or PC.
I'm not sure if you've played Perfect Dark or Goldeneye (your posts indicate that you've not seen much of them), but they both put in tonnes of fresh ideas, and were designed in a unique way.
Each ID game boasts better graphics.
Each new Rare game boasts new ideas.
I know which one excites me more.
Dave RJR wrote:
>Strafex wrote:
>> And although the creators of Doom did sort of start things, Rare
>> re-defined the genre with Goldeneye, putting the sort of new ideas
>> that few others had.
>> Head shots, Sniping, Stealth, proper guard AI, re-loading guns,
>> console splitscreen multiplayer - it all started with that N64 game!
>
> I thought the PC started it all. What about DOOM and Wolfenstien (the
> originals).
They pretty much started the First Person Shooter Boom.
But all the idea's like headshots, stealth etc, didn't materialise until Goldeneye.
Back then, I would have to say the PC beat the consoles in
> terms of game appeal. Only later with PS, did consoles really start to
> offer the kind of variety that the PC had started.
Not really. The PC was good with FPS games (and even then, the Snes got a Doom conversion) and some graphically pretty golf games.
When it came to gameplay, the consoles ripped the PC to shreds.
It wasn't until the time when the PS and Saturn first came out that the PC was STARTING to catch up with the consoles in terms of games.
>Strafex wrote:
>> And although the creators of Doom did sort of start things, Rare
>> re-defined the genre with Goldeneye, putting the sort of new ideas
>> that few others had.
>> Head shots, Sniping, Stealth, proper guard AI, re-loading guns,
>> console splitscreen multiplayer - it all started with that N64 game!
>
> I thought the PC started it all. What about DOOM and Wolfenstien (the
> originals).
They pretty much started the First Person Shooter Boom.
But all the idea's like headshots, stealth etc, didn't materialise until Goldeneye.
Back then, I would have to say the PC beat the consoles in
> terms of game appeal. Only later with PS, did consoles really start to
> offer the kind of variety that the PC had started.
Not really. The PC was good with FPS games (and even then, the Snes got a Doom conversion) and some graphically pretty golf games.
When it came to gameplay, the consoles ripped the PC to shreds.
It wasn't until the time when the PS and Saturn first came out that the PC was STARTING to catch up with the consoles in terms of games.
Strafex wrote:
> So after Goldeneye, Rare don't know how to make a decent FPS? I doubt
> it!
> And although Nintendo haven't got much experience in the area, Metroid
> just shows that this is good, because they're making it a new and
> original way, rather than just using the same style as ALL other PC
> FPS do, only with "nicer" graphics.
That's not what I said, but even though they have more experience, they still don't know the genre as good as Id who've been at FPS games for years, creating some of the best.
> And although the creators of Doom did sort of start things, Rare
> re-defined the genre with Goldeneye, putting the sort of new ideas
> that few others had.
> Head shots, Sniping, Stealth, proper guard AI, re-loading guns,
> console splitscreen multiplayer - it all started with that N64 game!
I thought the timeline went from Doom which created a much more involving FPS than any other game which came before it, and introduced some of the elements still used in modern FPS. Then to Quake which gave the genre a brand new graphics engine as well as the first online multiplayer support for which the game was praised for. And then onto Half-Life which recycled the old ideas of the genre and revamped them for new generation, with great success. Plus it had a story which involved the player more than any other FPS I've played.
And before you send a reply defending your consoles FPS, don't. I never said I was against these types of games on consoles, but to me they offer nothing I haven't seen before. The same goes for most PC FPS as well, so don't think I'm discriminating. The trouble is this genre has been so overused that all the good and original ideas have been exhausted; so most games of this genre these days are nothing more than graphical updates, console or PC.
> So after Goldeneye, Rare don't know how to make a decent FPS? I doubt
> it!
> And although Nintendo haven't got much experience in the area, Metroid
> just shows that this is good, because they're making it a new and
> original way, rather than just using the same style as ALL other PC
> FPS do, only with "nicer" graphics.
That's not what I said, but even though they have more experience, they still don't know the genre as good as Id who've been at FPS games for years, creating some of the best.
> And although the creators of Doom did sort of start things, Rare
> re-defined the genre with Goldeneye, putting the sort of new ideas
> that few others had.
> Head shots, Sniping, Stealth, proper guard AI, re-loading guns,
> console splitscreen multiplayer - it all started with that N64 game!
I thought the timeline went from Doom which created a much more involving FPS than any other game which came before it, and introduced some of the elements still used in modern FPS. Then to Quake which gave the genre a brand new graphics engine as well as the first online multiplayer support for which the game was praised for. And then onto Half-Life which recycled the old ideas of the genre and revamped them for new generation, with great success. Plus it had a story which involved the player more than any other FPS I've played.
And before you send a reply defending your consoles FPS, don't. I never said I was against these types of games on consoles, but to me they offer nothing I haven't seen before. The same goes for most PC FPS as well, so don't think I'm discriminating. The trouble is this genre has been so overused that all the good and original ideas have been exhausted; so most games of this genre these days are nothing more than graphical updates, console or PC.
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