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This is a thread I've posted over in the IPower forums, it's getting a pretty large response, so I thought I'd post it over here and see what you guys think.
Everyone has their own view on the origin of life and the Universe, most people seem to follow the ideas that evolution explains the diversity of life, and the Big Bang theory explains how the Universe came to be as it is, but these aren't answers to the origin of life, and the origin of the Universe.
I'd just personally love to hear people's view on the topic. It's surely got to be one of the most important questions for mankind, so you've gotta have an opinion somewhere down the line.
And for those wondering, my views stem from a deist perspective, that is I believe that a force or power that was sentient, created the Universe. This "deity" is not the god of any Bible.
As for life, I follow evolution to it's natural course, but as for the origin, I must accept that a freak lightning strike caused the enzyme reactions. I don't like this idea, but it's one I have to logically follow.
Everyone has their own view on the origin of life and the Universe, most people seem to follow the ideas that evolution explains the diversity of life, and the Big Bang theory explains how the Universe came to be as it is, but these aren't answers to the origin of life, and the origin of the Universe.
I'd just personally love to hear people's view on the topic. It's surely got to be one of the most important questions for mankind, so you've gotta have an opinion somewhere down the line.
And for those wondering, my views stem from a deist perspective, that is I believe that a force or power that was sentient, created the Universe. This "deity" is not the god of any Bible.
As for life, I follow evolution to it's natural course, but as for the origin, I must accept that a freak lightning strike caused the enzyme reactions. I don't like this idea, but it's one I have to logically follow.
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This is a thread I've posted over in the IPower forums, it's getting a pretty large response, so I thought I'd post it over here and see what you guys think.
Everyone has their own view on the origin of life and the Universe, most people seem to follow the ideas that evolution explains the diversity of life, and the Big Bang theory explains how the Universe came to be as it is, but these aren't answers to the origin of life, and the origin of the Universe.
I'd just personally love to hear people's view on the topic. It's surely got to be one of the most important questions for mankind, so you've gotta have an opinion somewhere down the line.
And for those wondering, my views stem from a deist perspective, that is I believe that a force or power that was sentient, created the Universe. This "deity" is not the god of any Bible.
As for life, I follow evolution to it's natural course, but as for the origin, I must accept that a freak lightning strike caused the enzyme reactions. I don't like this idea, but it's one I have to logically follow.
Everyone has their own view on the origin of life and the Universe, most people seem to follow the ideas that evolution explains the diversity of life, and the Big Bang theory explains how the Universe came to be as it is, but these aren't answers to the origin of life, and the origin of the Universe.
I'd just personally love to hear people's view on the topic. It's surely got to be one of the most important questions for mankind, so you've gotta have an opinion somewhere down the line.
And for those wondering, my views stem from a deist perspective, that is I believe that a force or power that was sentient, created the Universe. This "deity" is not the god of any Bible.
As for life, I follow evolution to it's natural course, but as for the origin, I must accept that a freak lightning strike caused the enzyme reactions. I don't like this idea, but it's one I have to logically follow.
I kind of share your views Reaper. I don't believe that an almighty God created us on a whim but i do believe some 'thing' started the whole universe, the big bang, off. I don't know what this 'thing' is, i don't know if it's an actual being or just an essence or force but i believe some greater power started it off. But i also believe that that was the last time 'it' had any kind of imput into life, i think 'it' just left life to create and evolve itself.
One thing i would love to know and i probably never will is that they say space is expanding, like a balloon for instance, but what are we expanding into? there's got to be a limit, a barrier of such, nothing can go on forever. And if it is expanding like a balloon, then eventually it's going to 'pop' and then what's going to happen? The big crunch apparently. That's where the whole lot is reversed and everything is condensed into a tight atom and at that point it will eventually explode again in another big bang type senario. Thus also leaving the question how many times has it happened before and when will it end for good?
Space is fun :)
One thing i would love to know and i probably never will is that they say space is expanding, like a balloon for instance, but what are we expanding into? there's got to be a limit, a barrier of such, nothing can go on forever. And if it is expanding like a balloon, then eventually it's going to 'pop' and then what's going to happen? The big crunch apparently. That's where the whole lot is reversed and everything is condensed into a tight atom and at that point it will eventually explode again in another big bang type senario. Thus also leaving the question how many times has it happened before and when will it end for good?
Space is fun :)
I'd say a lot of people seem to read stuff in to the Bible or other religious texts that just isn't there.
God from the Bible is more like the entity you suggest than something other people make it out to be. The whole 'made man in God's image' thing is completely mis-understood to mean God looks human, when the Bible itself makes it clear that God is a force beyond our understanding.
I suppose it's human nature that we try to humanise something we can't understand, though and every religion does this. In fact there are so many parallels between most religons that you wonder why anyone ever fights over them (clue: it's a tool used as an excuse for a war).
It does make sense, though, in the grand scheme of things that some intelligence far greater than our understanding permits would have had a hand in the creation of our universe. However, there is also the danger of labelling 'our' universe as the only one, even now we're just beginning to understand how huge the entire cosmos is and that there are things far beyond our current line of sight, places that may well have been around far longer than even the big bang.
God from the Bible is more like the entity you suggest than something other people make it out to be. The whole 'made man in God's image' thing is completely mis-understood to mean God looks human, when the Bible itself makes it clear that God is a force beyond our understanding.
I suppose it's human nature that we try to humanise something we can't understand, though and every religion does this. In fact there are so many parallels between most religons that you wonder why anyone ever fights over them (clue: it's a tool used as an excuse for a war).
It does make sense, though, in the grand scheme of things that some intelligence far greater than our understanding permits would have had a hand in the creation of our universe. However, there is also the danger of labelling 'our' universe as the only one, even now we're just beginning to understand how huge the entire cosmos is and that there are things far beyond our current line of sight, places that may well have been around far longer than even the big bang.
Stupid Pixie wrote:
> One thing i would love to know and i probably never will is that
> they say space is expanding, like a balloon for instance, but
> what are we expanding into? there's got to be a limit, a barrier
> of such, nothing can go on forever. And if it is expanding like a
> balloon, then eventually it's going to 'pop' and then what's
> going to happen? The big crunch apparently. That's where the
> whole lot is reversed and everything is condensed into a tight
> atom and at that point it will eventually explode again in
> another big bang type senario. Thus also leaving the question how
> many times has it happened before and when will it end for good?
>
> Space is fun :)
Cheers for your views Pixie, and I'll try to answer as many of these questions as I can :)
Expanding is actually not a very good term to use, a better way is to say that it is stretching. To begin with it might be difficult to notice the difference, but in fact the difference is vast.
Take the galaxies, for example, we know that they are moving away from us due to the red shift we see from them. However, what is actually happening is something that you might not be familiar with. The galaxies themselves do not move at all, what's happening is that the space between them is stretching! It is this that causes the red shift, not them just "flying" away from us.
Now, asking what is outside the Universe ceases to be a relevant question. It doesn't make sense anymore.
As for the fate of the Universe, the Big Crunch is one of basically three outcomes. All of these outcomes are based on what a constant, named Omega, turns out to equal. If the constant is anything above one, then the Universe will continue to stretch forever, leading to what is known as the Big Chill. If the value turns out to be exactly 1, then the Universe will stretch to a certain size and just stay that way forever. If, however, it is less than 1, the Universe will collapse back under gravity to its original pin head size. All availiable data at the moment, tells us the value is around 1 - 1.10.
> One thing i would love to know and i probably never will is that
> they say space is expanding, like a balloon for instance, but
> what are we expanding into? there's got to be a limit, a barrier
> of such, nothing can go on forever. And if it is expanding like a
> balloon, then eventually it's going to 'pop' and then what's
> going to happen? The big crunch apparently. That's where the
> whole lot is reversed and everything is condensed into a tight
> atom and at that point it will eventually explode again in
> another big bang type senario. Thus also leaving the question how
> many times has it happened before and when will it end for good?
>
> Space is fun :)
Cheers for your views Pixie, and I'll try to answer as many of these questions as I can :)
Expanding is actually not a very good term to use, a better way is to say that it is stretching. To begin with it might be difficult to notice the difference, but in fact the difference is vast.
Take the galaxies, for example, we know that they are moving away from us due to the red shift we see from them. However, what is actually happening is something that you might not be familiar with. The galaxies themselves do not move at all, what's happening is that the space between them is stretching! It is this that causes the red shift, not them just "flying" away from us.
Now, asking what is outside the Universe ceases to be a relevant question. It doesn't make sense anymore.
As for the fate of the Universe, the Big Crunch is one of basically three outcomes. All of these outcomes are based on what a constant, named Omega, turns out to equal. If the constant is anything above one, then the Universe will continue to stretch forever, leading to what is known as the Big Chill. If the value turns out to be exactly 1, then the Universe will stretch to a certain size and just stay that way forever. If, however, it is less than 1, the Universe will collapse back under gravity to its original pin head size. All availiable data at the moment, tells us the value is around 1 - 1.10.
What's Omega determined by?
Alfonse the Turtle wrote:
> What's Omega determined by?
Omega is the density parameter, it's the ratio of the average matter density of the Universe divided by a critical value. I'll have a look back through some of my physics notes a bit later...
> What's Omega determined by?
Omega is the density parameter, it's the ratio of the average matter density of the Universe divided by a critical value. I'll have a look back through some of my physics notes a bit later...
thanks Reaper :) it certainly makes more sense and just leads to more questions. :D awesome.
I know what a black hole is, but i don't understand where the matter it sucks up goes. does it just compact it or does it funnel it away somewhere else?
Also i've heard that there are eleven dimentions. i know the first four but what are the other seven?
I know what a black hole is, but i don't understand where the matter it sucks up goes. does it just compact it or does it funnel it away somewhere else?
Also i've heard that there are eleven dimentions. i know the first four but what are the other seven?
The Reaper wrote:
> Omega is the density parameter, it's the ratio of the average
> matter density of the Universe divided by a critical value. I'll
> have a look back through some of my physics notes a bit later...
I take it you are enjoying the physics module you are doing at the moment! Part of me wishes I stayed on at Uni to study particle physics with astronomy :(
Not sure what started us. I believe it's scientific rather than religious. As I think was said earlier (or maybe browsing another forum), chemicals were floating around in primordial ooze that formed what we now call enzymes (or maybe a strand of DNA randomly was formed), a strike of lightning and there we go, life started as a random possiblity. Of course, luckily for us, Earth could remain in a stable state to nurture it to what it is today.
On the whole religious thing, maybe an all-powerful being did cause that random event. I'm not sure, but always the pessimist, I believe more in Hell than Heaven. There may be a surprise on Judgement Day if I've been good enough!
> Omega is the density parameter, it's the ratio of the average
> matter density of the Universe divided by a critical value. I'll
> have a look back through some of my physics notes a bit later...
I take it you are enjoying the physics module you are doing at the moment! Part of me wishes I stayed on at Uni to study particle physics with astronomy :(
Not sure what started us. I believe it's scientific rather than religious. As I think was said earlier (or maybe browsing another forum), chemicals were floating around in primordial ooze that formed what we now call enzymes (or maybe a strand of DNA randomly was formed), a strike of lightning and there we go, life started as a random possiblity. Of course, luckily for us, Earth could remain in a stable state to nurture it to what it is today.
On the whole religious thing, maybe an all-powerful being did cause that random event. I'm not sure, but always the pessimist, I believe more in Hell than Heaven. There may be a surprise on Judgement Day if I've been good enough!
Stupid Pixie wrote:
> thanks Reaper :) it certainly makes more sense and just leads to
> more questions. :D awesome.
>
> I know what a black hole is, but i don't understand where the
> matter it sucks up goes. does it just compact it or does it
> funnel it away somewhere else?
>
> Also i've heard that there are eleven dimentions. i know the
> first four but what are the other seven?
Right, black holes :) I'll assume you know how they're formed, and basic properites. Where does the matter go? Right, well, what a black hole essentially does to space and time is "bend" them dramatically, to such an extent that anything that goes beyond the event horizon will go through extensive stretching. The parts that go through first get pulled so quickly in comparison to the parts that haven't yet that it causes a kind of spaghetti effect.
Beyond this, at least once you "touch" the black hole, all physics starts going very odd. As far is understood, matter is crushed down to near infintesimal size. It's then stuck there, there is no way you can remove it by any force.
A black is a sort of funnel, but it lacks the exiting part :) If you look at a picture of the curvature of space-time around a regular star, here. Now imagine a the bending a black hole produces!
Eleven dimensions, this stems from a theory known as string theory. It's used to describe what the four fundemental forces actually are and why they occur. It's said that, aside from the four you're familiar with, there are dimensions so tiny and compact, that we don't interact with them in any way we can realise.
Within these tiny dimensions is where all the forces "run". The reason it's such an interesting theory, is that it might one day prove to give us a theory of everything or Grand Unified Theory (G.U.T.). It also explains some peculiar behaviour of black holes.
Extentions of this theory include M-Theory and Superstring theory.
> thanks Reaper :) it certainly makes more sense and just leads to
> more questions. :D awesome.
>
> I know what a black hole is, but i don't understand where the
> matter it sucks up goes. does it just compact it or does it
> funnel it away somewhere else?
>
> Also i've heard that there are eleven dimentions. i know the
> first four but what are the other seven?
Right, black holes :) I'll assume you know how they're formed, and basic properites. Where does the matter go? Right, well, what a black hole essentially does to space and time is "bend" them dramatically, to such an extent that anything that goes beyond the event horizon will go through extensive stretching. The parts that go through first get pulled so quickly in comparison to the parts that haven't yet that it causes a kind of spaghetti effect.
Beyond this, at least once you "touch" the black hole, all physics starts going very odd. As far is understood, matter is crushed down to near infintesimal size. It's then stuck there, there is no way you can remove it by any force.
A black is a sort of funnel, but it lacks the exiting part :) If you look at a picture of the curvature of space-time around a regular star, here. Now imagine a the bending a black hole produces!
Eleven dimensions, this stems from a theory known as string theory. It's used to describe what the four fundemental forces actually are and why they occur. It's said that, aside from the four you're familiar with, there are dimensions so tiny and compact, that we don't interact with them in any way we can realise.
Within these tiny dimensions is where all the forces "run". The reason it's such an interesting theory, is that it might one day prove to give us a theory of everything or Grand Unified Theory (G.U.T.). It also explains some peculiar behaviour of black holes.
Extentions of this theory include M-Theory and Superstring theory.
hippyman wrote:
> The Reaper wrote:
> Omega is the density parameter, it's the ratio of the average
> matter density of the Universe divided by a critical value.
> I'll
> have a look back through some of my physics notes a bit
> later...
>
> I take it you are enjoying the physics module you are doing at
> the moment! Part of me wishes I stayed on at Uni to study
> particle physics with astronomy :(
Heh, I've always loved a bit of physics :) Still not sure if I wanna take it or maths at Uni tbh.
> Not sure what started us. I believe it's scientific rather than
> religious. As I think was said earlier (or maybe browsing
> another forum), chemicals were floating around in primordial ooze
> that formed what we now call enzymes (or maybe a strand of DNA
> randomly was formed), a strike of lightning and there we go, life
> started as a random possiblity. Of course, luckily for us, Earth
> could remain in a stable state to nurture it to what it is
> today.
>
> On the whole religious thing, maybe an all-powerful being did
> cause that random event. I'm not sure, but always the pessimist,
> I believe more in Hell than Heaven. There may be a surprise on
> Judgement Day if I've been good enough!
Well, there's always scientific models for everything, some are just good and others are pants :)
How can you believe in Hell but no Heaven :P that really is very pessimistic hippyman! On an afternote what is your belief of any afterlife?
> The Reaper wrote:
> Omega is the density parameter, it's the ratio of the average
> matter density of the Universe divided by a critical value.
> I'll
> have a look back through some of my physics notes a bit
> later...
>
> I take it you are enjoying the physics module you are doing at
> the moment! Part of me wishes I stayed on at Uni to study
> particle physics with astronomy :(
Heh, I've always loved a bit of physics :) Still not sure if I wanna take it or maths at Uni tbh.
> Not sure what started us. I believe it's scientific rather than
> religious. As I think was said earlier (or maybe browsing
> another forum), chemicals were floating around in primordial ooze
> that formed what we now call enzymes (or maybe a strand of DNA
> randomly was formed), a strike of lightning and there we go, life
> started as a random possiblity. Of course, luckily for us, Earth
> could remain in a stable state to nurture it to what it is
> today.
>
> On the whole religious thing, maybe an all-powerful being did
> cause that random event. I'm not sure, but always the pessimist,
> I believe more in Hell than Heaven. There may be a surprise on
> Judgement Day if I've been good enough!
Well, there's always scientific models for everything, some are just good and others are pants :)
How can you believe in Hell but no Heaven :P that really is very pessimistic hippyman! On an afternote what is your belief of any afterlife?
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