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Another day another games related story
In short:
Mother buys her 4 children a DS between them. She complains they fight over it (no? Really?) and spend too long on it, then don't do any music practice or housework.
What should really happen:
Mother is sent to jail for imposed music lessons and child labour (as well as being too thick to bring up kids).
In short:
Mother buys her 4 children a DS between them. She complains they fight over it (no? Really?) and spend too long on it, then don't do any music practice or housework.
What should really happen:
Mother is sent to jail for imposed music lessons and child labour (as well as being too thick to bring up kids).
Page:
pb wrote:
> it's much more common now to label people via other groups
> (chavs, wags etc).
I don't fully with labelling as such as I think we are all individuals, but I think this kind of labelling is better. WAGS you expect to see wearing designer gear, Chavs you expect in groups; wearing Burberry and their hoodies. There are such things as typical chavs, whereas the class labelling is not at all accurate (as said earlier, inheritance, fraud, lotto etc can make you jump from one social standing to another, but you generally tend to remain the same kind of person).
I rarely believe in the newspapers now. I had to comment on the quality of the bus service that transported sixth form students between different sites for the local paper. I was on the front page with a severe glare (perhaps they digitally altered it?) and misquotations everywhere. Did I have a right telling off at school the next week though! All I said was "Sometimes the buses make you a little late for your lessons".
Most stories like this need to be taken with a pinch of salt as they are more often thn not frivolous attempts to make the newspaper worth buying when nobody has been killed.
> it's much more common now to label people via other groups
> (chavs, wags etc).
I don't fully with labelling as such as I think we are all individuals, but I think this kind of labelling is better. WAGS you expect to see wearing designer gear, Chavs you expect in groups; wearing Burberry and their hoodies. There are such things as typical chavs, whereas the class labelling is not at all accurate (as said earlier, inheritance, fraud, lotto etc can make you jump from one social standing to another, but you generally tend to remain the same kind of person).
I rarely believe in the newspapers now. I had to comment on the quality of the bus service that transported sixth form students between different sites for the local paper. I was on the front page with a severe glare (perhaps they digitally altered it?) and misquotations everywhere. Did I have a right telling off at school the next week though! All I said was "Sometimes the buses make you a little late for your lessons".
Most stories like this need to be taken with a pinch of salt as they are more often thn not frivolous attempts to make the newspaper worth buying when nobody has been killed.
I think the lower-middle-upper class thing is difficult to label people with in the present situation as status is in flux with the changes in circumstances. I don't just mean earnings and living conditions (though with people who may have previously been considered middle to upper middle class losing their homes this is in flux too) but social status in itself is changing and it's much more common now to label people via other groups (chavs, wags etc).
I have a house, mortgage, 2 kids, car etc but wouldn't say I was in any class as far as determining how I behave or 'fit in' to society.
I believe that the Daily Mail is reaching not for the 'middle-class' (or more accurately, upper-middle class, which is what I believe VM was aiming for) but anyone who is naive and stupid enough to fall in line with popular sensationalist belief in whatever it is the paper feels fit to crucify that week.
I have a house, mortgage, 2 kids, car etc but wouldn't say I was in any class as far as determining how I behave or 'fit in' to society.
I believe that the Daily Mail is reaching not for the 'middle-class' (or more accurately, upper-middle class, which is what I believe VM was aiming for) but anyone who is naive and stupid enough to fall in line with popular sensationalist belief in whatever it is the paper feels fit to crucify that week.
Very_Metal wrote:
> again, the root of my ire was indeed her stupidity and i
> estimated she was middle class on the basis of the picture,
> points in the text and the nature of the problem (or at least,
> it`s priority as far as i judged it), all of which i feel were
> valid.
I feel you made a valid point. Why is this considered news (more over, why do people like this kind of news?).
The Daily Express is now 10p less than the Daily Mail (apparently) and I'm sure the stories in their are no more worth reading. At least I can save 10p. Wait...I don't buy newspapers.
To be honest, I'm not sure what "class" I am in. I'd think I was on the working class/middle class border. but I don't tend to think of classes when I meet people and take people on face value. As they are probably in a mix of classes themselves (some are mega-rich, others struggle to meet ends meet) I think I've somehow gotten confused to where in this social scale I am meant to fit. Not that it's a major thing for me.
> again, the root of my ire was indeed her stupidity and i
> estimated she was middle class on the basis of the picture,
> points in the text and the nature of the problem (or at least,
> it`s priority as far as i judged it), all of which i feel were
> valid.
I feel you made a valid point. Why is this considered news (more over, why do people like this kind of news?).
The Daily Express is now 10p less than the Daily Mail (apparently) and I'm sure the stories in their are no more worth reading. At least I can save 10p. Wait...I don't buy newspapers.
To be honest, I'm not sure what "class" I am in. I'd think I was on the working class/middle class border. but I don't tend to think of classes when I meet people and take people on face value. As they are probably in a mix of classes themselves (some are mega-rich, others struggle to meet ends meet) I think I've somehow gotten confused to where in this social scale I am meant to fit. Not that it's a major thing for me.
indeed, this was entirely about her stupidity.
The daily Mail IS targeted at middle class britain though, however classless we`re supposed to be, so it`s reasonable to assume that any features they run of this nature will be relevent to that demographic.
obviously social status/wealth doesn`t dictate behaviour (see that thuggish chump who won 9million on the lottery.. he was a douche before, and he`s a douche now), but people act according to their means and once again, i don`t consider "my kids squabble" to be news OR a problem. in my family, it would`ve simply been taken away, we`d have got smacked and told off for being hideous.
put this against children from less privelidged backgrounds in the news and it`s contrasted with "my kid just stabbed someone to death in a bakery"
i make a decent income, but it`s not enough to be too comfortable (i live in oxford so the rent is insane), so while i may be considered middle class in terms of my earning power, my living standard is still very much working class and the constant financial flux of everyday items causes me a great deal of inconvenience and worry, far too much to have enough time to complain to papers about things that EVERY family has to go through.
again, the root of my ire was indeed her stupidity and i estimated she was middle class on the basis of the picture, points in the text and the nature of the problem (or at least, it`s priority as far as i judged it), all of which i feel were valid.
The daily Mail IS targeted at middle class britain though, however classless we`re supposed to be, so it`s reasonable to assume that any features they run of this nature will be relevent to that demographic.
obviously social status/wealth doesn`t dictate behaviour (see that thuggish chump who won 9million on the lottery.. he was a douche before, and he`s a douche now), but people act according to their means and once again, i don`t consider "my kids squabble" to be news OR a problem. in my family, it would`ve simply been taken away, we`d have got smacked and told off for being hideous.
put this against children from less privelidged backgrounds in the news and it`s contrasted with "my kid just stabbed someone to death in a bakery"
i make a decent income, but it`s not enough to be too comfortable (i live in oxford so the rent is insane), so while i may be considered middle class in terms of my earning power, my living standard is still very much working class and the constant financial flux of everyday items causes me a great deal of inconvenience and worry, far too much to have enough time to complain to papers about things that EVERY family has to go through.
again, the root of my ire was indeed her stupidity and i estimated she was middle class on the basis of the picture, points in the text and the nature of the problem (or at least, it`s priority as far as i judged it), all of which i feel were valid.
I think pb made a valid point in which the whole opinion debate has surrounded.
I may be wrong, but several of us have had an opinion clash with Garin before and, please correct me if I am wrong, but believe he may be playing the devil's advocate (which fits nicely with the avatar and tag) and providing an opinion that differs to the majority to spark an intersting debate.
I think society has now got the "blame and compensate" fever that nobody wants to see. Everyone else is to blame for me not raising my kids properly, schools are to blame why I don't have a well paid job and Polish are to blame why there are so few jobs in my area. Quite frankly, most of the time this isn't the case. I think V_M had this in mind when he wrote his rant.
Of course, this story being one of those "I blame the gun manufacturer because I killed someone with a gun he made".
I may be wrong, but several of us have had an opinion clash with Garin before and, please correct me if I am wrong, but believe he may be playing the devil's advocate (which fits nicely with the avatar and tag) and providing an opinion that differs to the majority to spark an intersting debate.
I think society has now got the "blame and compensate" fever that nobody wants to see. Everyone else is to blame for me not raising my kids properly, schools are to blame why I don't have a well paid job and Polish are to blame why there are so few jobs in my area. Quite frankly, most of the time this isn't the case. I think V_M had this in mind when he wrote his rant.
Of course, this story being one of those "I blame the gun manufacturer because I killed someone with a gun he made".
I can see Garin's point, in that trying to bundle people into a class because of the odd bits of information we have about them is a dangerous precident. We're 'supposed' to be a classless society these days (though we know that's not exactly true, it's just that class is defined differently these days) and I know there are many who take exception to classifying a group of people by what they have/don’t have.
In fact, realistically, the lines have actually blurred a lot more than in previous decades. There are ‘middle class’ Chavs, despite the picture some may paint, and there are just as many that would have once been called ‘lower class’ who are perfectly behaved normal people who don’t do all the things that the sensationalist papers and TV documentaries would have us believe. Just as importantly, there are even those with money that don’t get it by fleecing their employees, running scam businesses or by inheritance and even within these areas there are people who behave differently to others you may class as ‘higher class’
But VM’s initial point was that this woman in particular is stupid and naive. Assuming that the facts in the Daily Mail are correct, we can pretty much see this for ourselves. It may have been over the top in suggesting that she was a perfect example of her ‘class’ however, by pigeon-holing her based on the small amount of facts we knew.
In fact, realistically, the lines have actually blurred a lot more than in previous decades. There are ‘middle class’ Chavs, despite the picture some may paint, and there are just as many that would have once been called ‘lower class’ who are perfectly behaved normal people who don’t do all the things that the sensationalist papers and TV documentaries would have us believe. Just as importantly, there are even those with money that don’t get it by fleecing their employees, running scam businesses or by inheritance and even within these areas there are people who behave differently to others you may class as ‘higher class’
But VM’s initial point was that this woman in particular is stupid and naive. Assuming that the facts in the Daily Mail are correct, we can pretty much see this for ourselves. It may have been over the top in suggesting that she was a perfect example of her ‘class’ however, by pigeon-holing her based on the small amount of facts we knew.
Garin wrote:
> I suppose people read what they want. You read a
> "perfectly worded and valid 'opinion'". I read a
> vitriolic rant
indeed, i did specify that in the opening lines.
> dosed with class prejudice,
i think i explained where i was coming from in my previous post, it`s more the blame thing than anything, i`m sick of that chump who was "given the wrong ladder" as well, and there`s not many middle class people up ladders ;)
i don`t consider myself prejudice towards anyone, but if the worst problem in your life is that your 4 children clash over who plays their games console, then maybe there`s not that much to complain about.
i`m irritated by the complete lack of common sense displayed by this woman.
She put me to mind of this motley crew:
[URL]http://www.channel4.com/fourdocs/archive/the_dinner_party.html[/URL]
this documentary is quite old now, from just before labour took power, but it`s a good watch (spare yourself an hour and take a look, you`ll find it hard to decide who you loathe most)
it`s honestly worrying that it`s THIS demographic whom the various political parties are so keen to secure, maybe because most of them are of similar social position, but it`s hard to know how to make choices for a class of life they know nothing about. an extra few pence on fuel for example, is nothing when you`re on a 6-figure income and probably put it on expenses anyway, but a vast amount of us aren`t.
> insults and ridiculous assertions. In my 'opinion' its fair to
> say he went overboard.
i disagree.
as rants go that was fairly tame i`d say.
which parts did you find fault with? i`m more than happy to explain myself further when i get a minute.
> Maybe I was daft to expect something better being posted on here
> though.
that`s patronising and unjustified.
granted there is a fair amount of spam and thoroughly pointless posts on here, but i resent the implication that mine was either.
> I suppose people read what they want. You read a
> "perfectly worded and valid 'opinion'". I read a
> vitriolic rant
indeed, i did specify that in the opening lines.
> dosed with class prejudice,
i think i explained where i was coming from in my previous post, it`s more the blame thing than anything, i`m sick of that chump who was "given the wrong ladder" as well, and there`s not many middle class people up ladders ;)
i don`t consider myself prejudice towards anyone, but if the worst problem in your life is that your 4 children clash over who plays their games console, then maybe there`s not that much to complain about.
i`m irritated by the complete lack of common sense displayed by this woman.
She put me to mind of this motley crew:
[URL]http://www.channel4.com/fourdocs/archive/the_dinner_party.html[/URL]
this documentary is quite old now, from just before labour took power, but it`s a good watch (spare yourself an hour and take a look, you`ll find it hard to decide who you loathe most)
it`s honestly worrying that it`s THIS demographic whom the various political parties are so keen to secure, maybe because most of them are of similar social position, but it`s hard to know how to make choices for a class of life they know nothing about. an extra few pence on fuel for example, is nothing when you`re on a 6-figure income and probably put it on expenses anyway, but a vast amount of us aren`t.
> insults and ridiculous assertions. In my 'opinion' its fair to
> say he went overboard.
i disagree.
as rants go that was fairly tame i`d say.
which parts did you find fault with? i`m more than happy to explain myself further when i get a minute.
> Maybe I was daft to expect something better being posted on here
> though.
that`s patronising and unjustified.
granted there is a fair amount of spam and thoroughly pointless posts on here, but i resent the implication that mine was either.
Grix Thraves wrote:
> Suggesting an opinion is 'wrong' is daft to begin with, as it's
> only an opinion, and it's an insult to the intelligence of others
> to suggest that their own decisions are sad. By expressing your
> distaste at the agreement or finding of truth in what he said,
> which only one person said anyway, seems rather blinkered and
> arrogant to me, which again, is only my opinion. Disagreement,
> sure, but not distaste. Which is why I'm more interested in
> -your- opinion, and not your remarks.
>
> So what actually is your opinion on this?
There you go Grix - an opinion from Garin - job done:)
> Suggesting an opinion is 'wrong' is daft to begin with, as it's
> only an opinion, and it's an insult to the intelligence of others
> to suggest that their own decisions are sad. By expressing your
> distaste at the agreement or finding of truth in what he said,
> which only one person said anyway, seems rather blinkered and
> arrogant to me, which again, is only my opinion. Disagreement,
> sure, but not distaste. Which is why I'm more interested in
> -your- opinion, and not your remarks.
>
> So what actually is your opinion on this?
There you go Grix - an opinion from Garin - job done:)
Dragonlance wrote:
> What V_M posted was a perfectly worded and valid 'opinion' about
> the usual media hype often found residing within the 'hallowed'
> pages of the Daily 'we'll scare you all with a load of boll**ks'
> Mail.
I suppose people read what they want. You read a "perfectly worded and valid 'opinion'". I read a vitriolic rant dosed with class prejudice, insults and ridiculous assertions. In my 'opinion' its fair to say he went overboard. Maybe I was daft to expect something better being posted on here though.
I dont necessarily disagree with the general point about the article either. Although I think perhaps more is being read into it than is actually there. CVG did an excellent job of priming people with its own editorial too.
> What V_M posted was a perfectly worded and valid 'opinion' about
> the usual media hype often found residing within the 'hallowed'
> pages of the Daily 'we'll scare you all with a load of boll**ks'
> Mail.
I suppose people read what they want. You read a "perfectly worded and valid 'opinion'". I read a vitriolic rant dosed with class prejudice, insults and ridiculous assertions. In my 'opinion' its fair to say he went overboard. Maybe I was daft to expect something better being posted on here though.
I dont necessarily disagree with the general point about the article either. Although I think perhaps more is being read into it than is actually there. CVG did an excellent job of priming people with its own editorial too.
Dragonlance wrote:
> What V_M posted was a perfectly worded and valid 'opinion' about
> the usual media hype often found residing within the 'hallowed'
> pages of the Daily 'we'll scare you all with a load of boll**ks'
> Mail.
it`s not so clear cut as "mail bad/other papers right", there`s scaremongering in all of them. True, the daily mail is hilarious in its condemnation of anything game related around the time of a gta release (it`ll be musics fault again once the next marilyn manson is discovered), but other papers are just as guilty; the sun ran with "Nintendo killed my son" on the front page after some kid had an epileptic fit while gaming, that was around the same time as the original gameboys had been released i seem to recall, so nintendo was in the public concious.
this was really just because i`m fed up with the constant stream of blame shifting that people seem to do and this was such a simpering middle class complaint that it got up my nose. all the PROPER injustice in the world, all the problems faced by people in, dare i say it, the demographic of some OTHER tabloids, and this idiot and her ill mannered brood get their smug faces in print.
want a reality check? if she`d picked one of her kids and packed them off with their cello/violin and DS to the kind of school most of us have to go to, then not only would they not fit in, they`d probably have been beaten up and had the lot pinched by lunchtime. probably because if their involuntary haircut.
this isn`t news.
how are we supposed to afford rent/mortgage when wages remain pretty much static in comparison to the rising cost of neccessary things like food and petrol? will the state pension be enough to support us when WE retire? what kind of plans of our own should we make? could we know before it`s too late please?
THOSE are the kinds of issues we need answers to, not brats, games and blame.
.. oops, i rant-ed again.
> What V_M posted was a perfectly worded and valid 'opinion' about
> the usual media hype often found residing within the 'hallowed'
> pages of the Daily 'we'll scare you all with a load of boll**ks'
> Mail.
it`s not so clear cut as "mail bad/other papers right", there`s scaremongering in all of them. True, the daily mail is hilarious in its condemnation of anything game related around the time of a gta release (it`ll be musics fault again once the next marilyn manson is discovered), but other papers are just as guilty; the sun ran with "Nintendo killed my son" on the front page after some kid had an epileptic fit while gaming, that was around the same time as the original gameboys had been released i seem to recall, so nintendo was in the public concious.
this was really just because i`m fed up with the constant stream of blame shifting that people seem to do and this was such a simpering middle class complaint that it got up my nose. all the PROPER injustice in the world, all the problems faced by people in, dare i say it, the demographic of some OTHER tabloids, and this idiot and her ill mannered brood get their smug faces in print.
want a reality check? if she`d picked one of her kids and packed them off with their cello/violin and DS to the kind of school most of us have to go to, then not only would they not fit in, they`d probably have been beaten up and had the lot pinched by lunchtime. probably because if their involuntary haircut.
this isn`t news.
how are we supposed to afford rent/mortgage when wages remain pretty much static in comparison to the rising cost of neccessary things like food and petrol? will the state pension be enough to support us when WE retire? what kind of plans of our own should we make? could we know before it`s too late please?
THOSE are the kinds of issues we need answers to, not brats, games and blame.
.. oops, i rant-ed again.
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