The "Freeola Customer Forum" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
This is just my opinion on some stuff. Which side do you favor - scientific or religious route? Foreword: This, which I am about to type isn’t science-fiction nonsense. Much of what is written is based on scientifically proven fact, and the rest is my opinion. Using a combination of the two, a reasonably non-contradictory explanation can hopefully be created. Right.
In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float. Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved. The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner. Each universe is similar to at least one other universe, but with one single tiny difference in the laws of physics. For every possible outcome that could arise, there is a universe for each possibility (hence parallel universe. But this is actually lies because if it was a parallel universe then everything would be the same and it’s not, there is one difference in each one). Our universe is almost infinitely large, and is expanding, at an almost infinite rate. (Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening)
The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect. The bible clearly has a lot of truth. And it also has many valid points, and thus should be followed. But, in my opinion, whether you follow it or not, has no effect on the “afterlife”, more on this later.
The earth was formed in space over millions or billions of years, due to the accumulation of dust and particles in space, formed by a destroyed star or the creation of the universe itself. The gravity of all the little bits pulled together to form a large planet. There was extreme heat here because of all the forces acting upon the planet, during its creation. Here it sat and boiled for a while, until it got smacked by a super-massive asteroid, and this caused bits of it to fly off. These bits went into orbit around the earth and formed the moon. Earth now is kind of cooling down, and sort of becoming habitable. Life will soon form, but there are two possible ways in which this could happen.
1. Bits of stuff, proteins etc congealed in a pool, by chance formed an organism and this organism then decided it was a plant. And thus life on earth arose due to its own volition.
2. There was already life elsewhere in the universe, which is highly likely due to the place’s age, 5 billion years+ is likely to form life (as stated in 1.), and a meteor or whatever struck this planet. Some bacteria or plant material was transported through space in/on the asteroid. It landed on our humble planet, escaped and started up here.
If either of these are true, which they could well be, does it not occur to you that life is just a big bunch of random proteins and stuff congealed together, by luck/chance, and evolution have culminated, on this planet at any rate, in humans. Look at really basic life: an amoeba. It clearly has no intelligence; it simply isn’t capable of it. Don’t say it does, because it simply cant think, it lives, breeds etc on genetic instinct built into it. It has no choice, it has no ethics, and it has no ‘spirit’. Eat or not eat. Divide or not divide. That’s about the limit of its choices. Then look at us: are we any different? NO. Our brains are just 2 lbs of gray mush that has been formed over millions of years of natural selection. The brain is really great. It’s quite smashing. It can do millions of things per second; it’s faster than ANY computer. It controls electrical signals generated in our brain, generally by external stimuli. Sight, smell etc. these electrical signals go to glands or whatever, send out hormones, and stuff.
Personality is just a bonus, a side effect of the brain. Look at dolphins, or sharks, or snakes, or mice. Not stupid animals, they have personalities, just like any one of us. But would you say they have a “spirit”? Do they have a god? In the literal sense, yes they do as god is (potentially) an omnipotent being who created the universes. But do they go to heaven when they die? Do the dolphins go to a massive sea in the sky with as many hoops, balls and fish as they want? To the mice go to cheese-land? No. How? Because there is no such place, there is no such thing as “spirits,” or “your soul”. There is the person inside oneself, but that is primarily defined at conception, then later, after birth, formed through external influences. It may sound heartless but it is, in my opinion, the truth.
So, what happens when we die? Where do we go, what happens to our consciousness? It simply stops. There is nothing there; you simply don’t exist (other then your dead body). Whatever thoughts, feelings or whatever you had on your dying day will be stored there still, in your deceased brain, until it degrades, the memory cells die and THEN, you are gone. So in a way you do exist after death, if only briefly. But of course you are dead, there is no heart action, thus no brain function, therefore it is the end.
If you disagree with any of my points, feel free to criticize.
Thanks for reading,
LF
In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float. Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved. The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner. Each universe is similar to at least one other universe, but with one single tiny difference in the laws of physics. For every possible outcome that could arise, there is a universe for each possibility (hence parallel universe. But this is actually lies because if it was a parallel universe then everything would be the same and it’s not, there is one difference in each one). Our universe is almost infinitely large, and is expanding, at an almost infinite rate. (Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening)
The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect. The bible clearly has a lot of truth. And it also has many valid points, and thus should be followed. But, in my opinion, whether you follow it or not, has no effect on the “afterlife”, more on this later.
The earth was formed in space over millions or billions of years, due to the accumulation of dust and particles in space, formed by a destroyed star or the creation of the universe itself. The gravity of all the little bits pulled together to form a large planet. There was extreme heat here because of all the forces acting upon the planet, during its creation. Here it sat and boiled for a while, until it got smacked by a super-massive asteroid, and this caused bits of it to fly off. These bits went into orbit around the earth and formed the moon. Earth now is kind of cooling down, and sort of becoming habitable. Life will soon form, but there are two possible ways in which this could happen.
1. Bits of stuff, proteins etc congealed in a pool, by chance formed an organism and this organism then decided it was a plant. And thus life on earth arose due to its own volition.
2. There was already life elsewhere in the universe, which is highly likely due to the place’s age, 5 billion years+ is likely to form life (as stated in 1.), and a meteor or whatever struck this planet. Some bacteria or plant material was transported through space in/on the asteroid. It landed on our humble planet, escaped and started up here.
If either of these are true, which they could well be, does it not occur to you that life is just a big bunch of random proteins and stuff congealed together, by luck/chance, and evolution have culminated, on this planet at any rate, in humans. Look at really basic life: an amoeba. It clearly has no intelligence; it simply isn’t capable of it. Don’t say it does, because it simply cant think, it lives, breeds etc on genetic instinct built into it. It has no choice, it has no ethics, and it has no ‘spirit’. Eat or not eat. Divide or not divide. That’s about the limit of its choices. Then look at us: are we any different? NO. Our brains are just 2 lbs of gray mush that has been formed over millions of years of natural selection. The brain is really great. It’s quite smashing. It can do millions of things per second; it’s faster than ANY computer. It controls electrical signals generated in our brain, generally by external stimuli. Sight, smell etc. these electrical signals go to glands or whatever, send out hormones, and stuff.
Personality is just a bonus, a side effect of the brain. Look at dolphins, or sharks, or snakes, or mice. Not stupid animals, they have personalities, just like any one of us. But would you say they have a “spirit”? Do they have a god? In the literal sense, yes they do as god is (potentially) an omnipotent being who created the universes. But do they go to heaven when they die? Do the dolphins go to a massive sea in the sky with as many hoops, balls and fish as they want? To the mice go to cheese-land? No. How? Because there is no such place, there is no such thing as “spirits,” or “your soul”. There is the person inside oneself, but that is primarily defined at conception, then later, after birth, formed through external influences. It may sound heartless but it is, in my opinion, the truth.
So, what happens when we die? Where do we go, what happens to our consciousness? It simply stops. There is nothing there; you simply don’t exist (other then your dead body). Whatever thoughts, feelings or whatever you had on your dying day will be stored there still, in your deceased brain, until it degrades, the memory cells die and THEN, you are gone. So in a way you do exist after death, if only briefly. But of course you are dead, there is no heart action, thus no brain function, therefore it is the end.
If you disagree with any of my points, feel free to criticize.
Thanks for reading,
LF
Page:
At last, the conversation gets back to my level...a bit of name calling.
you're all smelly monkey-lovers!
Nah seriously, it's been an interesting read. It's nice to see both sides of the argument sensibly argued. All too often neither side has any kind of idea how to back up their point of view.
you're all smelly monkey-lovers!
Nah seriously, it's been an interesting read. It's nice to see both sides of the argument sensibly argued. All too often neither side has any kind of idea how to back up their point of view.
:P
Troll ;-)
nothing wrong with a bit of silly name calling now and again...
Indeed IB - sometimes we have to agree to disagree and have done with it but you for know how much fun it can be at times having the debate - as long as it doesn't come down to silly name calling ;)
You see Ant - you do have the knowledge as well as the faith !!
As far as establishes scientific theory goes we have only known about the existence of dinosaurs in the last 100 - 200 years.
There are Cave and Cliff drawings done by Native Americans that date back to ad 400 which depict Dinosaurs.
Certain Fossil layers in Texas have both Dinosaur and Human bones in the very same layer !
Job mentioned "Great Creatures" in the bible - written nearly 4000 years ago.
Ceramic and stone figurines discovered in Acambaro, Mexico represent many species of dinosaurs - dated from 800 BC to 200 AD.
There is much that we are discovering today that was know about a long time before modern science.
As far as establishes scientific theory goes we have only known about the existence of dinosaurs in the last 100 - 200 years.
There are Cave and Cliff drawings done by Native Americans that date back to ad 400 which depict Dinosaurs.
Certain Fossil layers in Texas have both Dinosaur and Human bones in the very same layer !
Job mentioned "Great Creatures" in the bible - written nearly 4000 years ago.
Ceramic and stone figurines discovered in Acambaro, Mexico represent many species of dinosaurs - dated from 800 BC to 200 AD.
There is much that we are discovering today that was know about a long time before modern science.
Who really cares?
Everyone at some point wants an answer to the questions that matter. In most cases the answers don't yet exist. So we put FAITH in the theories and half-answers that we find, in whatever form we find them in. Some people believe the written religious word, others prefer the scientific theory.
In the end, what does it matter? You have as close to the answers as you're likely to get, and can get on with your life. Trying to argue over whos theoretical solution is correct is a pointless endeavour, unless you are in a position to conclusively disprove one or the other.
IB
Everyone at some point wants an answer to the questions that matter. In most cases the answers don't yet exist. So we put FAITH in the theories and half-answers that we find, in whatever form we find them in. Some people believe the written religious word, others prefer the scientific theory.
In the end, what does it matter? You have as close to the answers as you're likely to get, and can get on with your life. Trying to argue over whos theoretical solution is correct is a pointless endeavour, unless you are in a position to conclusively disprove one or the other.
IB
Not very well, but still. {:) I don't need facts to believe.
By the way, they're not actually described as dinosaurs, in case you start looking through the Bible for the actual word. It's something like "great, huge, carnivirous (sp?) beasts that roamed the Earth," possibly in the early days of man. So you never know, maybe we were alive when dinosaurs were too.
By the way, they're not actually described as dinosaurs, in case you start looking through the Bible for the actual word. It's something like "great, huge, carnivirous (sp?) beasts that roamed the Earth," possibly in the early days of man. So you never know, maybe we were alive when dinosaurs were too.
Ali wrote:
> While it may be a rather obvious Bill Hicks quote, I've got a one word
> argument:
>
> Dinosaurs.
>
> Explain that.
Actually, lots of people (including my pastor) think they've found Dinosaurs actually mentioned in the Bible.
There's a book about it all too, my Dad's read it and says it explains a lot of things like the Dinosaurs. I'll try and find out what it's called, I'm sure it's around somewhere...
So there, explained. {:)
> While it may be a rather obvious Bill Hicks quote, I've got a one word
> argument:
>
> Dinosaurs.
>
> Explain that.
Actually, lots of people (including my pastor) think they've found Dinosaurs actually mentioned in the Bible.
There's a book about it all too, my Dad's read it and says it explains a lot of things like the Dinosaurs. I'll try and find out what it's called, I'm sure it's around somewhere...
So there, explained. {:)
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Nh, sorry, I got in a muddle with my words... what I meant was that
> religion does not disagree with the theory of evolution (NOT that it
> accepts it as fact).
Ok - sort of !! But Christian religions certainly do not agree that man was evolved from any kind of ape. I have touched on this previously in this topic with various points showing the falliablities (sp!) behind Darwins theories.
The problems come from both sides of the dabte when assumptions are made for political reasons which is exactly what happend in 1856. Darwin himself stated that though there was no evidence at the time to back up his theory, he believed that sometime in the future the evidence would be found.
As we have been able to learn more and more we have come up with new laws and theories to explain the way various "things" work. Scientists today accept the second law of thermodynamics as irrefutable. Darwins theories are totally oposite to this law which scientists accept as fundamental to everything that is in existence today.
"The Second Law of Thermodynamics relates to a process fundamental to the Physical Universe called Entropy. Entropy is the process in which all inanimate matter in the physical universe eventually breaks down into it's constituent parts with the passage of time. A corollary of this law is the observation that inanimate matter never spontaneously organises itself into more complex forms. Thus for example, a car will eventually disintegrate into a pile of rust, but a pile of rust will never spontaneously build itself up into a car. "
This leads to the current belief in the scientific community that the universe is actually in a state of disorder and is slowly deteriorating into chaos. For Darwins theories to fit in with current thinking the universe would actually be moving into a state of order.
Sorry if I am getting carried away but I am a sad case and all this stuff interests me !
> The church's stance is that God "made" man when he gave him
> an immortal soul. Which does not discount any theory of human
> evolution or development.
See the above....
> Oh, and you say that the church disagrees with science in many
> ways...
> name a few. Evolution. Origin of Man. - see above - sort of..
I suppose that was written a bit rashly. It is more a case of science actually proving that what the bible says is true. In my last reply to you I mentioned about the earth being round. There are many more instances of things being mentioned in the bible 2000 - 3000 years ago which have only recently been "discovered" by our scientists.
i.e. Until recently it was belived that the air was weightless, Scientists have recently discovered that air does indeed have weight. In Job 28 it is written that "God establishes a weight for the wind". there are hundreds of examples such as this that I can throw at you.
Most of what I am putting here is not necessarily what certain religions might publish as accepted practice and beliefs but is what I believe / know to be true based on my research and studies into what the Bible and other ancient documents actually say. The problem is that there will never be any hard irrefutable scientific evidence produced to prove any kind of big bang or other universe originating theory and it is too easy to totally disprove all the theories that have been produced to date. They are all theories and can only ever be theories unless me and hundreds like me are totally wrong and we are in some kind of time cycling vortex type thing that wraps round on itself and makes us start over again !!
> Nh, sorry, I got in a muddle with my words... what I meant was that
> religion does not disagree with the theory of evolution (NOT that it
> accepts it as fact).
Ok - sort of !! But Christian religions certainly do not agree that man was evolved from any kind of ape. I have touched on this previously in this topic with various points showing the falliablities (sp!) behind Darwins theories.
The problems come from both sides of the dabte when assumptions are made for political reasons which is exactly what happend in 1856. Darwin himself stated that though there was no evidence at the time to back up his theory, he believed that sometime in the future the evidence would be found.
As we have been able to learn more and more we have come up with new laws and theories to explain the way various "things" work. Scientists today accept the second law of thermodynamics as irrefutable. Darwins theories are totally oposite to this law which scientists accept as fundamental to everything that is in existence today.
"The Second Law of Thermodynamics relates to a process fundamental to the Physical Universe called Entropy. Entropy is the process in which all inanimate matter in the physical universe eventually breaks down into it's constituent parts with the passage of time. A corollary of this law is the observation that inanimate matter never spontaneously organises itself into more complex forms. Thus for example, a car will eventually disintegrate into a pile of rust, but a pile of rust will never spontaneously build itself up into a car. "
This leads to the current belief in the scientific community that the universe is actually in a state of disorder and is slowly deteriorating into chaos. For Darwins theories to fit in with current thinking the universe would actually be moving into a state of order.
Sorry if I am getting carried away but I am a sad case and all this stuff interests me !
> The church's stance is that God "made" man when he gave him
> an immortal soul. Which does not discount any theory of human
> evolution or development.
See the above....
> Oh, and you say that the church disagrees with science in many
> ways...
> name a few. Evolution. Origin of Man. - see above - sort of..
I suppose that was written a bit rashly. It is more a case of science actually proving that what the bible says is true. In my last reply to you I mentioned about the earth being round. There are many more instances of things being mentioned in the bible 2000 - 3000 years ago which have only recently been "discovered" by our scientists.
i.e. Until recently it was belived that the air was weightless, Scientists have recently discovered that air does indeed have weight. In Job 28 it is written that "God establishes a weight for the wind". there are hundreds of examples such as this that I can throw at you.
Most of what I am putting here is not necessarily what certain religions might publish as accepted practice and beliefs but is what I believe / know to be true based on my research and studies into what the Bible and other ancient documents actually say. The problem is that there will never be any hard irrefutable scientific evidence produced to prove any kind of big bang or other universe originating theory and it is too easy to totally disprove all the theories that have been produced to date. They are all theories and can only ever be theories unless me and hundreds like me are totally wrong and we are in some kind of time cycling vortex type thing that wraps round on itself and makes us start over again !!
Page: