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“You cannot do jump effectively in a first person prospective” – Strafex
Weather you agree with what Strafex was saying or not this statement proved to me how many closed minded individuals there is (no offence). Strafex is one person who is against change; he doesn’t think Donkey Kong belongs in a 3D world, more a 3D, linear prospective a.k.a Crash Bandicoot and he doesn’t believe that Metroid belongs in a first person prospective. It isn’t that he is against new and fresh ideas to refresh the game but he believes that a sequel should be true to the main dynamics of the game. So a Metroid sequel should feature jumping, exploring and shooting, if it doesn’t feature all these three effectively then it isn’t a true Metroid sequel. I’m not arguing with Strafex on the Metroid front, when the game comes out Metroid fans might well believe the game should have been third person, he has a far deeper insight to the game than I do but what I don’t like is his attitude to it all.
No it isn’t bitter or nasty, it is simple “Metroid can’t work in first person”, well that is where I disagree. Nintendo trains the future designers up by telling them that use your imagination to create what you want and then try and make it work. The main argument from Strafex is that in First Person you can shoot effectively, you can explore just as well but as for jumping well no, it won’t work. He explained both Turok and Quake attempted jumping and failed, I know that the jumping in these games are far from perfect, but because it has failed in the past doesn’t mean it will fail in the future. There is many ways to make people jump in first person mode effectively and most small minds such as mine can’t even comprehend. The best way to make first person jumping effective is by looking how people jump, that is first person and so therefore if we can mimic a realistic jump then we can succeed in a first person jumping game.
Well one mistake the other games made was the characters arms, would you still be holding a gun in the same position if you jumped, of course not to make a successful jump in first person would have to be removed, it may be graphical but it is one of those graphical moments that needs to look right to feel right. Second off is balance, we actually feel how far we jump, in a game we only see not feel and so how can we judge a successful jump in a game? Well recently analogue buttons have come into play so the harder you press the higher you jump and depending how far you move the analogue stick as the same time the further you jump as well. It is not impossible for developers to make a first person jump well but who will honestly put the effort in to do that? Nintendo would that is who, they have the time, money and effort and it is important to them that a game is done right when released. So Metroid being made by Nintendo tells me this will match and even beat what a third person Metroid could do, well the possibility of that happening is there it can be done the fact is it probably wont. Jumping was the only admittedly minor grumble at the E3 games show and so Strafex would be right that going into third person for the jumping bits may be the right thing to do. But that doesn’t say jumping can’t be done as well if not better than in first person than third.
On to Donkey Kong briefly, I agree with Strafex that Donkey Kong 64 would have been better if it was more like Crash Bandicoot but again I don’t think it can’t be done in a 3D world game. Yes they failed before as jumping has in first person but I think it can be done, imagination is the best key to gaming, forget everything that has happened before and remember where there is a will there’s a way.
Dringo.
Weather you agree with what Strafex was saying or not this statement proved to me how many closed minded individuals there is (no offence). Strafex is one person who is against change; he doesn’t think Donkey Kong belongs in a 3D world, more a 3D, linear prospective a.k.a Crash Bandicoot and he doesn’t believe that Metroid belongs in a first person prospective. It isn’t that he is against new and fresh ideas to refresh the game but he believes that a sequel should be true to the main dynamics of the game. So a Metroid sequel should feature jumping, exploring and shooting, if it doesn’t feature all these three effectively then it isn’t a true Metroid sequel. I’m not arguing with Strafex on the Metroid front, when the game comes out Metroid fans might well believe the game should have been third person, he has a far deeper insight to the game than I do but what I don’t like is his attitude to it all.
No it isn’t bitter or nasty, it is simple “Metroid can’t work in first person”, well that is where I disagree. Nintendo trains the future designers up by telling them that use your imagination to create what you want and then try and make it work. The main argument from Strafex is that in First Person you can shoot effectively, you can explore just as well but as for jumping well no, it won’t work. He explained both Turok and Quake attempted jumping and failed, I know that the jumping in these games are far from perfect, but because it has failed in the past doesn’t mean it will fail in the future. There is many ways to make people jump in first person mode effectively and most small minds such as mine can’t even comprehend. The best way to make first person jumping effective is by looking how people jump, that is first person and so therefore if we can mimic a realistic jump then we can succeed in a first person jumping game.
Well one mistake the other games made was the characters arms, would you still be holding a gun in the same position if you jumped, of course not to make a successful jump in first person would have to be removed, it may be graphical but it is one of those graphical moments that needs to look right to feel right. Second off is balance, we actually feel how far we jump, in a game we only see not feel and so how can we judge a successful jump in a game? Well recently analogue buttons have come into play so the harder you press the higher you jump and depending how far you move the analogue stick as the same time the further you jump as well. It is not impossible for developers to make a first person jump well but who will honestly put the effort in to do that? Nintendo would that is who, they have the time, money and effort and it is important to them that a game is done right when released. So Metroid being made by Nintendo tells me this will match and even beat what a third person Metroid could do, well the possibility of that happening is there it can be done the fact is it probably wont. Jumping was the only admittedly minor grumble at the E3 games show and so Strafex would be right that going into third person for the jumping bits may be the right thing to do. But that doesn’t say jumping can’t be done as well if not better than in first person than third.
On to Donkey Kong briefly, I agree with Strafex that Donkey Kong 64 would have been better if it was more like Crash Bandicoot but again I don’t think it can’t be done in a 3D world game. Yes they failed before as jumping has in first person but I think it can be done, imagination is the best key to gaming, forget everything that has happened before and remember where there is a will there’s a way.
Dringo.
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Arghhhh closed minded people. If i worked for Nintendo i'd prove you all wrong.
For christ sake strafex Metroid is old, they've got the plot and storyline and re-made it to the next generation. Yes it isn't the same as the SNES version but i dont honestly care it will be better than anyone can imagine, is Mario Tennis like Mario 64... no! Is Paper Mario anything like Mario 64 GOD NO!!!! The fact is it is the new look for samus, you now have the ability to play from her P.O.V surly a true Metroid fan would see that they get to try a new experience with their chosen character!
Yes one day Samus will return in third person but what we have is the ability to experience the world of brinstar etc... in a way we never previously imagined. A new look on it, jumping may not look or feel or play as effectivly (although as i insist it can) but then this is a unique opertunity delivered to us to relive a metroid game as close to the originals as possible in a first person view... a new way of life for metroid and for that i will like it... Yep it isn't Super Metroid 3D but like the Celshaded Legend of Zelda we are getting our favourite game with a whole new twist.
Which is what I would love to see.
Dringo.
For christ sake strafex Metroid is old, they've got the plot and storyline and re-made it to the next generation. Yes it isn't the same as the SNES version but i dont honestly care it will be better than anyone can imagine, is Mario Tennis like Mario 64... no! Is Paper Mario anything like Mario 64 GOD NO!!!! The fact is it is the new look for samus, you now have the ability to play from her P.O.V surly a true Metroid fan would see that they get to try a new experience with their chosen character!
Yes one day Samus will return in third person but what we have is the ability to experience the world of brinstar etc... in a way we never previously imagined. A new look on it, jumping may not look or feel or play as effectivly (although as i insist it can) but then this is a unique opertunity delivered to us to relive a metroid game as close to the originals as possible in a first person view... a new way of life for metroid and for that i will like it... Yep it isn't Super Metroid 3D but like the Celshaded Legend of Zelda we are getting our favourite game with a whole new twist.
Which is what I would love to see.
Dringo.
You seem to be reading a lot into what i understand just to be the opinion that jumping doesn't work well in first person perspective.
Is there more than this on which you base your post? (Leaving the whole dk thing aside).
First person - unless you're looking down at the time, it's difficult to tell where you are in relation to the gap you need to jump, and the point on which you need to land.
Maybe there's some way of doing this that takes the problem away, but since we've not seen anything of this magic method, it seems reasonable to expect things to be as they always have been - difficult to judge.
Don't string the guy up just for that!
Is there more than this on which you base your post? (Leaving the whole dk thing aside).
First person - unless you're looking down at the time, it's difficult to tell where you are in relation to the gap you need to jump, and the point on which you need to land.
Maybe there's some way of doing this that takes the problem away, but since we've not seen anything of this magic method, it seems reasonable to expect things to be as they always have been - difficult to judge.
Don't string the guy up just for that!
I'm not closed to change, just some games are suited to certain styles.
Jumping does not work in first person.
I think that's a well known fact. Therefore, a FPS Metroid game wastes Samus' fantastic jumping abilities.
Doesn't mean Metroid Prime will be a bad game, it just won't be as great as a Super Metroid in 3D would've been and it won't bring Samus to Lara Croft style fame (no matter how brilliantly designed a character is, you can't connect with a character you can't see - when has an FPS given a good character?).
I'm happy for somethings to change, but would you start putting pepper in your porridge instead of sugar? No, I didn't think so...
As for Donkey Kong going crash style, I didn't say that a "true 3D" Donkey Kong didn't work, just that Crash was more like Donkey Kong Country (the best DK game ever) in 3D than DK64 was.
DK64 was a bit too much of a Mario 64 wannabe to be really special and lost a lot of what made it's Snes predeccessor so great.
I reckon that in the right hands, a full 3D adventure game for Donkey Kong would work, encorporating the best bits from the Snes game while evolving the rest to new levels.
But only a fool would try to do platforming in first person.
It's like trying to cut a loaf of bread with a buttering knife.
The buttering knife is useful but it can't cut a loaf!
Jumping does not work in first person.
I think that's a well known fact. Therefore, a FPS Metroid game wastes Samus' fantastic jumping abilities.
Doesn't mean Metroid Prime will be a bad game, it just won't be as great as a Super Metroid in 3D would've been and it won't bring Samus to Lara Croft style fame (no matter how brilliantly designed a character is, you can't connect with a character you can't see - when has an FPS given a good character?).
I'm happy for somethings to change, but would you start putting pepper in your porridge instead of sugar? No, I didn't think so...
As for Donkey Kong going crash style, I didn't say that a "true 3D" Donkey Kong didn't work, just that Crash was more like Donkey Kong Country (the best DK game ever) in 3D than DK64 was.
DK64 was a bit too much of a Mario 64 wannabe to be really special and lost a lot of what made it's Snes predeccessor so great.
I reckon that in the right hands, a full 3D adventure game for Donkey Kong would work, encorporating the best bits from the Snes game while evolving the rest to new levels.
But only a fool would try to do platforming in first person.
It's like trying to cut a loaf of bread with a buttering knife.
The buttering knife is useful but it can't cut a loaf!
Jumping in 1st person shooters tends to be terrible just look at the original Turok game, the game was nearly spoiled by those annoying jumping sections.
Jumping could possibly be achieved if time was taken over it but more to the point as fine as jumping would be in FPS I would rather there be too much of it, maybe just enough to break up certain points in the game but that's a different matter.
Maybe an option to switc between First Person and Third Person? A la Rainbow Six (on PC, not sure if the PS version carried the option).
As for DK64, I never did like it much, not sure why, it was good but there was better, maybe some of your suggestions could be implemented.
On the whole though I'm with Strafex I like change but sometimes I like things to stay the same, as for metriod I would rather have more of the same please.
Maybe an option to switc between First Person and Third Person? A la Rainbow Six (on PC, not sure if the PS version carried the option).
As for DK64, I never did like it much, not sure why, it was good but there was better, maybe some of your suggestions could be implemented.
On the whole though I'm with Strafex I like change but sometimes I like things to stay the same, as for metriod I would rather have more of the same please.
A) DK64 was superb as it was - Crash sucks!
B) I don't care that Metroid is FPS - It still looks great, and will play true to the whole metroid universe = I prefer FPS to 3-D blasters anyway - They always feel a bit more personal and more complete to me.
B) I don't care that Metroid is FPS - It still looks great, and will play true to the whole metroid universe = I prefer FPS to 3-D blasters anyway - They always feel a bit more personal and more complete to me.
“You cannot do jump effectively in a first person prospective” – Strafex
Weather you agree with what Strafex was saying or not this statement proved to me how many closed minded individuals there is (no offence). Strafex is one person who is against change; he doesn’t think Donkey Kong belongs in a 3D world, more a 3D, linear prospective a.k.a Crash Bandicoot and he doesn’t believe that Metroid belongs in a first person prospective. It isn’t that he is against new and fresh ideas to refresh the game but he believes that a sequel should be true to the main dynamics of the game. So a Metroid sequel should feature jumping, exploring and shooting, if it doesn’t feature all these three effectively then it isn’t a true Metroid sequel. I’m not arguing with Strafex on the Metroid front, when the game comes out Metroid fans might well believe the game should have been third person, he has a far deeper insight to the game than I do but what I don’t like is his attitude to it all.
No it isn’t bitter or nasty, it is simple “Metroid can’t work in first person”, well that is where I disagree. Nintendo trains the future designers up by telling them that use your imagination to create what you want and then try and make it work. The main argument from Strafex is that in First Person you can shoot effectively, you can explore just as well but as for jumping well no, it won’t work. He explained both Turok and Quake attempted jumping and failed, I know that the jumping in these games are far from perfect, but because it has failed in the past doesn’t mean it will fail in the future. There is many ways to make people jump in first person mode effectively and most small minds such as mine can’t even comprehend. The best way to make first person jumping effective is by looking how people jump, that is first person and so therefore if we can mimic a realistic jump then we can succeed in a first person jumping game.
Well one mistake the other games made was the characters arms, would you still be holding a gun in the same position if you jumped, of course not to make a successful jump in first person would have to be removed, it may be graphical but it is one of those graphical moments that needs to look right to feel right. Second off is balance, we actually feel how far we jump, in a game we only see not feel and so how can we judge a successful jump in a game? Well recently analogue buttons have come into play so the harder you press the higher you jump and depending how far you move the analogue stick as the same time the further you jump as well. It is not impossible for developers to make a first person jump well but who will honestly put the effort in to do that? Nintendo would that is who, they have the time, money and effort and it is important to them that a game is done right when released. So Metroid being made by Nintendo tells me this will match and even beat what a third person Metroid could do, well the possibility of that happening is there it can be done the fact is it probably wont. Jumping was the only admittedly minor grumble at the E3 games show and so Strafex would be right that going into third person for the jumping bits may be the right thing to do. But that doesn’t say jumping can’t be done as well if not better than in first person than third.
On to Donkey Kong briefly, I agree with Strafex that Donkey Kong 64 would have been better if it was more like Crash Bandicoot but again I don’t think it can’t be done in a 3D world game. Yes they failed before as jumping has in first person but I think it can be done, imagination is the best key to gaming, forget everything that has happened before and remember where there is a will there’s a way.
Dringo.
Weather you agree with what Strafex was saying or not this statement proved to me how many closed minded individuals there is (no offence). Strafex is one person who is against change; he doesn’t think Donkey Kong belongs in a 3D world, more a 3D, linear prospective a.k.a Crash Bandicoot and he doesn’t believe that Metroid belongs in a first person prospective. It isn’t that he is against new and fresh ideas to refresh the game but he believes that a sequel should be true to the main dynamics of the game. So a Metroid sequel should feature jumping, exploring and shooting, if it doesn’t feature all these three effectively then it isn’t a true Metroid sequel. I’m not arguing with Strafex on the Metroid front, when the game comes out Metroid fans might well believe the game should have been third person, he has a far deeper insight to the game than I do but what I don’t like is his attitude to it all.
No it isn’t bitter or nasty, it is simple “Metroid can’t work in first person”, well that is where I disagree. Nintendo trains the future designers up by telling them that use your imagination to create what you want and then try and make it work. The main argument from Strafex is that in First Person you can shoot effectively, you can explore just as well but as for jumping well no, it won’t work. He explained both Turok and Quake attempted jumping and failed, I know that the jumping in these games are far from perfect, but because it has failed in the past doesn’t mean it will fail in the future. There is many ways to make people jump in first person mode effectively and most small minds such as mine can’t even comprehend. The best way to make first person jumping effective is by looking how people jump, that is first person and so therefore if we can mimic a realistic jump then we can succeed in a first person jumping game.
Well one mistake the other games made was the characters arms, would you still be holding a gun in the same position if you jumped, of course not to make a successful jump in first person would have to be removed, it may be graphical but it is one of those graphical moments that needs to look right to feel right. Second off is balance, we actually feel how far we jump, in a game we only see not feel and so how can we judge a successful jump in a game? Well recently analogue buttons have come into play so the harder you press the higher you jump and depending how far you move the analogue stick as the same time the further you jump as well. It is not impossible for developers to make a first person jump well but who will honestly put the effort in to do that? Nintendo would that is who, they have the time, money and effort and it is important to them that a game is done right when released. So Metroid being made by Nintendo tells me this will match and even beat what a third person Metroid could do, well the possibility of that happening is there it can be done the fact is it probably wont. Jumping was the only admittedly minor grumble at the E3 games show and so Strafex would be right that going into third person for the jumping bits may be the right thing to do. But that doesn’t say jumping can’t be done as well if not better than in first person than third.
On to Donkey Kong briefly, I agree with Strafex that Donkey Kong 64 would have been better if it was more like Crash Bandicoot but again I don’t think it can’t be done in a 3D world game. Yes they failed before as jumping has in first person but I think it can be done, imagination is the best key to gaming, forget everything that has happened before and remember where there is a will there’s a way.
Dringo.
Page: