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Most people are probably aware that the PC can work pretty impressively at times as an emulator of Playstation and N64 games. Some people claim that games can even work better in this way than on the original console (better resolution, shorter load times, etc).
But does this really do any good for the games industry? Sony went out of their way to stop commercial emulators such as Bleem, but the freeware versions, still being updated today, have had no such attack.
One thing that is sometimes forgotten is that even playing a Playstation Emulator on a PC, you still need to have got hold of a real playstation game disk. On the other hand, you can sometimes play from the hard disk, and N64 games can be downloaded illegally from the web.
Another thing to note is that emulation of newer consoles is all but impossible. People have tried with the PS2, but any emulation will not run proper games, and there has been no serious attempt at Gamecube or X-Box emulation. (The most ever seen are GUIs, usually with some sort of virus attatched)
Personally, I believe that there is no harm in emulation as many people use it - playing official copies of PSX on a PC only encourages sales of older games. However, as it is, there is not really any need to buy the games themselves. PSX games can be copied to the hard-disk, and it is almost possible to play real N64 games on the PC - contary to what some sites say, downloading ROM images is illegal for any period of time, whether or not you own the game, just as making the images available publically is also illegal.
The best thing for the industry, in my opinion, would be if Sony offered their support for emulation. I can't really see this happening (in fact, it almost certainly won't), but I believe that it would help everyone. Sony could help develop PC emulation for old consoles, and provide adequate copy protection to stop the emulators from playing from copied games. Non-authorised emulators could be closed down in the same way as Sony have with Bleem.
Not only would this help prevent piracy, if the emulator remained freeware, no-one would realistically be annoyed except for those playing illegal games. Manufacturers have never made much money from consoles themselves - it all comes from the games. Sony could also make sure that PS2 emulation was not introduced until they were absolutely sure that it would not take away from PS2 sales - when the console is essentially dead.
Of course, I really can't imagine any of this happening, and the cartridge format of the dying N64 would make this very difficult for Nintendo, without offering some sort of PC hardware that could accept the cartridges. Somehow, the way things are going, this seems even more unlikely. But it seems crazy to me that large companies are grumbling about something that could potentially make them much more money.
Any opinions on this? Perhaps someone could offer a fuller explanation about why manufacturers have never done any of this - I suppose the biggest problem is that it would be expenisve initially, there is no guarantee that it would make money, and it goes against principles that have been upheld in the past.
Ah well,
See Ya ;-)
PinkPig
But does this really do any good for the games industry? Sony went out of their way to stop commercial emulators such as Bleem, but the freeware versions, still being updated today, have had no such attack.
One thing that is sometimes forgotten is that even playing a Playstation Emulator on a PC, you still need to have got hold of a real playstation game disk. On the other hand, you can sometimes play from the hard disk, and N64 games can be downloaded illegally from the web.
Another thing to note is that emulation of newer consoles is all but impossible. People have tried with the PS2, but any emulation will not run proper games, and there has been no serious attempt at Gamecube or X-Box emulation. (The most ever seen are GUIs, usually with some sort of virus attatched)
Personally, I believe that there is no harm in emulation as many people use it - playing official copies of PSX on a PC only encourages sales of older games. However, as it is, there is not really any need to buy the games themselves. PSX games can be copied to the hard-disk, and it is almost possible to play real N64 games on the PC - contary to what some sites say, downloading ROM images is illegal for any period of time, whether or not you own the game, just as making the images available publically is also illegal.
The best thing for the industry, in my opinion, would be if Sony offered their support for emulation. I can't really see this happening (in fact, it almost certainly won't), but I believe that it would help everyone. Sony could help develop PC emulation for old consoles, and provide adequate copy protection to stop the emulators from playing from copied games. Non-authorised emulators could be closed down in the same way as Sony have with Bleem.
Not only would this help prevent piracy, if the emulator remained freeware, no-one would realistically be annoyed except for those playing illegal games. Manufacturers have never made much money from consoles themselves - it all comes from the games. Sony could also make sure that PS2 emulation was not introduced until they were absolutely sure that it would not take away from PS2 sales - when the console is essentially dead.
Of course, I really can't imagine any of this happening, and the cartridge format of the dying N64 would make this very difficult for Nintendo, without offering some sort of PC hardware that could accept the cartridges. Somehow, the way things are going, this seems even more unlikely. But it seems crazy to me that large companies are grumbling about something that could potentially make them much more money.
Any opinions on this? Perhaps someone could offer a fuller explanation about why manufacturers have never done any of this - I suppose the biggest problem is that it would be expenisve initially, there is no guarantee that it would make money, and it goes against principles that have been upheld in the past.
Ah well,
See Ya ;-)
PinkPig
Page:
As for Piracy, I don't really think that console manufacturers are really all that bothered about what it might do, just as long as their console is selling. Look at Sony and the PSX. Surely it wouldn't have done quite so well had it not been so simple and easy to 'chip' for playing import and copied games. But what did Sony do to stop this??? Nothing.
And so the console kept on selling well, but amongst many PSX owners' collections, very few official PlayStation games could be found!
Instead there were blank cases and discs with some Japanese writing one them.
I hope that piracy does not come into this generation of gaming, as it will ruin everything! To me, and maybe many others, piracy gave Sony an unfair advantage over the others last time around.
Maybe companies would step-in and put an end to piracy if it meant that their own games were being imported instead. Especially if it was their games that dominated that particular console's titles - like with the large majority of Nintendo games on the N64.
And I also believe that they put a stop to Emulator's, simply because it reduces the amount of sales their console produces.
And so the console kept on selling well, but amongst many PSX owners' collections, very few official PlayStation games could be found!
Instead there were blank cases and discs with some Japanese writing one them.
I hope that piracy does not come into this generation of gaming, as it will ruin everything! To me, and maybe many others, piracy gave Sony an unfair advantage over the others last time around.
Maybe companies would step-in and put an end to piracy if it meant that their own games were being imported instead. Especially if it was their games that dominated that particular console's titles - like with the large majority of Nintendo games on the N64.
And I also believe that they put a stop to Emulator's, simply because it reduces the amount of sales their console produces.
Emulation of consoles which use CDs have the same faults as the consoles themselves, in that they can only use the protection available at the time and any traditional CD format is easily pirated in the end.
The main problem with Emulators, and what you touched upon briefly, is that most of the popular ones are emulators for cartridge based systems. Yes, Bleam and co are very popular too, but the main reason Sony didn't like Bleem was that it undermined the system's code, rather than allowing the users to play PSX games on a PC. This was their major bone of contention and they won't let it go.
Sony wouldn't want to help anyone create an emulator for 'older systems' because, other than the Playstation and Saturn, everything else used cartridges, which means emulation for these systems involves downloading ROMs from the net or a CD. The legal requirements involve the user having the original source material and/or permission from the licencee. With the Spectrum and C64, plus older consoles, this licence has expired on some titles (though many have been bought up or kept as a licence) and these are then legal. Shops like HMV have sold C64 and Spectrum CDs full with 3000 or more games and the emulators themselves. Even the Amiga emulators have had discs sold in shops, with legal Freeware or Public Domain titles and a few titles which have had their licences removed.
Companies like Capcom want to hold on to their licences to make remakes or to bundle their old games in a retro compilation, such as the ones available for the PSX, DC and Saturn. They should provide more games per disc, however, if they are looking to do this on the current gaming platforms. Perhaps this is the way forward and we will see a disc of 30 Capcom or old Namco games presented for the PS2, Xbox or Gamecube. These would be welcome if the price was right and there were enough games to justify the compilation.
So Sony would not want to cut in to the emulation market and create something that would make them more money in the future or undermine other people's licences, and the licence holders probably wouldn't let them anyway. As for Sony authorising a PSX emulator, I can't see it happening any time soon.
The main problem with Emulators, and what you touched upon briefly, is that most of the popular ones are emulators for cartridge based systems. Yes, Bleam and co are very popular too, but the main reason Sony didn't like Bleem was that it undermined the system's code, rather than allowing the users to play PSX games on a PC. This was their major bone of contention and they won't let it go.
Sony wouldn't want to help anyone create an emulator for 'older systems' because, other than the Playstation and Saturn, everything else used cartridges, which means emulation for these systems involves downloading ROMs from the net or a CD. The legal requirements involve the user having the original source material and/or permission from the licencee. With the Spectrum and C64, plus older consoles, this licence has expired on some titles (though many have been bought up or kept as a licence) and these are then legal. Shops like HMV have sold C64 and Spectrum CDs full with 3000 or more games and the emulators themselves. Even the Amiga emulators have had discs sold in shops, with legal Freeware or Public Domain titles and a few titles which have had their licences removed.
Companies like Capcom want to hold on to their licences to make remakes or to bundle their old games in a retro compilation, such as the ones available for the PSX, DC and Saturn. They should provide more games per disc, however, if they are looking to do this on the current gaming platforms. Perhaps this is the way forward and we will see a disc of 30 Capcom or old Namco games presented for the PS2, Xbox or Gamecube. These would be welcome if the price was right and there were enough games to justify the compilation.
So Sony would not want to cut in to the emulation market and create something that would make them more money in the future or undermine other people's licences, and the licence holders probably wouldn't let them anyway. As for Sony authorising a PSX emulator, I can't see it happening any time soon.
I think emulation is a suitable thing if and only if it is only used for the older consoles, consoles that are no longer sold and the developers have made all the cash they had hoped to make or all the cash they have made. In a way I think it is ok for the developers as PC's (which are the usual format for Emulators) just can't perform the same actions as the consoles of today (Well not most normal desktops...YET) But soon they will be able to and we may well see XBOX emulators etc. I think the XBOX seeing as it has an architecture very similar to that of a PC could be the first of the next generation consoles to be emulated on a PC.
So far every console that has been released has had no way of updating or modifying the performance, well not in the way we can do with PC's. It is this reason that makes PC's the ideal format for emulators and also shows us that emulation is not always a good thing. If someone was to find a way of emulating one of the latest consoles it could and would be a terrible thing, Ok so we could play Downloaded ROMS for free on free software, but the developers would loose out and in the end may well end up going out of business which would be a bad thing for the gaming industry. Emulators are legal to use, downloading and playing ROMS is a copyright violation. UNLESS you own a copy of the game, or have written consent from their developers. Wonder how many people have got wrtitten consent. While it may not be legal I am pretty sure that the majority of emulator users don't own the original format of the ROM's they have downloaded.
In a way software, in particular games emulation, is similar to the illegal MP3 downloads. Like napster and all the others there are hundreds to thousands of sites where you can download emulators and the game ROMS. I have an amiga ROMS and a couple of games, I don't use it much only got hold of it to play one game - "Zak McKraken" which I hadn't played for a long time and it was one of my favourite as a kid. I think as long as the console or games machine that is being emulated is no longer a main stream console then emulation isn't harming the industry - just squeezing the last bits out of the the older consoles.
One thing that I thought of during this is - Does emulation encourage piracy? Such as chipping consoles etc? Well my views are a bit of both - yes and no. If you don't own the original game then with most emulators you can download the ROM and legaly keep it for 24 hours but most will keep it a lot longer. So if the option to get their console chipped and play games at a cheaper price then most of the emultor users would no doubt choose to do it as long as the dangers were very low in terms of damaging the console etc.
In the industry right now piracy isn't as major a problem as it used to be, just because of the high risks and difficulty in copying the games at a reasonable price - enough to make a profit in the end. But how long before piracy creeps up again and causes more prolems?
I think most console developers have concentrated a lot on making the console very hard to chip, PS2 and Gamecube are the two I know about. Not too sure on the XBOX but I'm sure it will be pretty secure too. With the PS2 the main chipset is not designed for additional chips so chipping the console may cause it to overheat and eventually may "fry" the chipset. Ultimately killing your console. There are also a few software techniques used so only official games are recognised as games. With the gamucube the overheating bit also applies due to its size, not designed to cope with extra chips being added. Also the small optical disks are not commonly used and therefore expensive to reproduce.
I'm pretty sure in a few years we will see wmulators that allow us to insert or Gamecube, PS2 or XBOX disks into a PC and play the games with little difference between the console version. The big problems will start happening when someone develops software to emulate a console while it is still a main contender in the industry, something that I hope dosn't happen - Sure we could play the games without having to buy the console, maybe just having to make a few modification to our PC's but in the long term it will be us gamers that suffer, not as many developers will be still in operation giving us fewer games, less variety, maybe more expensive games and consoles. Just more problems, more harm than good.
So keep the emulators to consoles from the past, the classics. That way we don't spoil and ruin future generations of consoles and in the end better standards and options for us gamers.
So far every console that has been released has had no way of updating or modifying the performance, well not in the way we can do with PC's. It is this reason that makes PC's the ideal format for emulators and also shows us that emulation is not always a good thing. If someone was to find a way of emulating one of the latest consoles it could and would be a terrible thing, Ok so we could play Downloaded ROMS for free on free software, but the developers would loose out and in the end may well end up going out of business which would be a bad thing for the gaming industry. Emulators are legal to use, downloading and playing ROMS is a copyright violation. UNLESS you own a copy of the game, or have written consent from their developers. Wonder how many people have got wrtitten consent. While it may not be legal I am pretty sure that the majority of emulator users don't own the original format of the ROM's they have downloaded.
In a way software, in particular games emulation, is similar to the illegal MP3 downloads. Like napster and all the others there are hundreds to thousands of sites where you can download emulators and the game ROMS. I have an amiga ROMS and a couple of games, I don't use it much only got hold of it to play one game - "Zak McKraken" which I hadn't played for a long time and it was one of my favourite as a kid. I think as long as the console or games machine that is being emulated is no longer a main stream console then emulation isn't harming the industry - just squeezing the last bits out of the the older consoles.
One thing that I thought of during this is - Does emulation encourage piracy? Such as chipping consoles etc? Well my views are a bit of both - yes and no. If you don't own the original game then with most emulators you can download the ROM and legaly keep it for 24 hours but most will keep it a lot longer. So if the option to get their console chipped and play games at a cheaper price then most of the emultor users would no doubt choose to do it as long as the dangers were very low in terms of damaging the console etc.
In the industry right now piracy isn't as major a problem as it used to be, just because of the high risks and difficulty in copying the games at a reasonable price - enough to make a profit in the end. But how long before piracy creeps up again and causes more prolems?
I think most console developers have concentrated a lot on making the console very hard to chip, PS2 and Gamecube are the two I know about. Not too sure on the XBOX but I'm sure it will be pretty secure too. With the PS2 the main chipset is not designed for additional chips so chipping the console may cause it to overheat and eventually may "fry" the chipset. Ultimately killing your console. There are also a few software techniques used so only official games are recognised as games. With the gamucube the overheating bit also applies due to its size, not designed to cope with extra chips being added. Also the small optical disks are not commonly used and therefore expensive to reproduce.
I'm pretty sure in a few years we will see wmulators that allow us to insert or Gamecube, PS2 or XBOX disks into a PC and play the games with little difference between the console version. The big problems will start happening when someone develops software to emulate a console while it is still a main contender in the industry, something that I hope dosn't happen - Sure we could play the games without having to buy the console, maybe just having to make a few modification to our PC's but in the long term it will be us gamers that suffer, not as many developers will be still in operation giving us fewer games, less variety, maybe more expensive games and consoles. Just more problems, more harm than good.
So keep the emulators to consoles from the past, the classics. That way we don't spoil and ruin future generations of consoles and in the end better standards and options for us gamers.
Most people are probably aware that the PC can work pretty impressively at times as an emulator of Playstation and N64 games. Some people claim that games can even work better in this way than on the original console (better resolution, shorter load times, etc).
But does this really do any good for the games industry? Sony went out of their way to stop commercial emulators such as Bleem, but the freeware versions, still being updated today, have had no such attack.
One thing that is sometimes forgotten is that even playing a Playstation Emulator on a PC, you still need to have got hold of a real playstation game disk. On the other hand, you can sometimes play from the hard disk, and N64 games can be downloaded illegally from the web.
Another thing to note is that emulation of newer consoles is all but impossible. People have tried with the PS2, but any emulation will not run proper games, and there has been no serious attempt at Gamecube or X-Box emulation. (The most ever seen are GUIs, usually with some sort of virus attatched)
Personally, I believe that there is no harm in emulation as many people use it - playing official copies of PSX on a PC only encourages sales of older games. However, as it is, there is not really any need to buy the games themselves. PSX games can be copied to the hard-disk, and it is almost possible to play real N64 games on the PC - contary to what some sites say, downloading ROM images is illegal for any period of time, whether or not you own the game, just as making the images available publically is also illegal.
The best thing for the industry, in my opinion, would be if Sony offered their support for emulation. I can't really see this happening (in fact, it almost certainly won't), but I believe that it would help everyone. Sony could help develop PC emulation for old consoles, and provide adequate copy protection to stop the emulators from playing from copied games. Non-authorised emulators could be closed down in the same way as Sony have with Bleem.
Not only would this help prevent piracy, if the emulator remained freeware, no-one would realistically be annoyed except for those playing illegal games. Manufacturers have never made much money from consoles themselves - it all comes from the games. Sony could also make sure that PS2 emulation was not introduced until they were absolutely sure that it would not take away from PS2 sales - when the console is essentially dead.
Of course, I really can't imagine any of this happening, and the cartridge format of the dying N64 would make this very difficult for Nintendo, without offering some sort of PC hardware that could accept the cartridges. Somehow, the way things are going, this seems even more unlikely. But it seems crazy to me that large companies are grumbling about something that could potentially make them much more money.
Any opinions on this? Perhaps someone could offer a fuller explanation about why manufacturers have never done any of this - I suppose the biggest problem is that it would be expenisve initially, there is no guarantee that it would make money, and it goes against principles that have been upheld in the past.
Ah well,
See Ya ;-)
PinkPig
But does this really do any good for the games industry? Sony went out of their way to stop commercial emulators such as Bleem, but the freeware versions, still being updated today, have had no such attack.
One thing that is sometimes forgotten is that even playing a Playstation Emulator on a PC, you still need to have got hold of a real playstation game disk. On the other hand, you can sometimes play from the hard disk, and N64 games can be downloaded illegally from the web.
Another thing to note is that emulation of newer consoles is all but impossible. People have tried with the PS2, but any emulation will not run proper games, and there has been no serious attempt at Gamecube or X-Box emulation. (The most ever seen are GUIs, usually with some sort of virus attatched)
Personally, I believe that there is no harm in emulation as many people use it - playing official copies of PSX on a PC only encourages sales of older games. However, as it is, there is not really any need to buy the games themselves. PSX games can be copied to the hard-disk, and it is almost possible to play real N64 games on the PC - contary to what some sites say, downloading ROM images is illegal for any period of time, whether or not you own the game, just as making the images available publically is also illegal.
The best thing for the industry, in my opinion, would be if Sony offered their support for emulation. I can't really see this happening (in fact, it almost certainly won't), but I believe that it would help everyone. Sony could help develop PC emulation for old consoles, and provide adequate copy protection to stop the emulators from playing from copied games. Non-authorised emulators could be closed down in the same way as Sony have with Bleem.
Not only would this help prevent piracy, if the emulator remained freeware, no-one would realistically be annoyed except for those playing illegal games. Manufacturers have never made much money from consoles themselves - it all comes from the games. Sony could also make sure that PS2 emulation was not introduced until they were absolutely sure that it would not take away from PS2 sales - when the console is essentially dead.
Of course, I really can't imagine any of this happening, and the cartridge format of the dying N64 would make this very difficult for Nintendo, without offering some sort of PC hardware that could accept the cartridges. Somehow, the way things are going, this seems even more unlikely. But it seems crazy to me that large companies are grumbling about something that could potentially make them much more money.
Any opinions on this? Perhaps someone could offer a fuller explanation about why manufacturers have never done any of this - I suppose the biggest problem is that it would be expenisve initially, there is no guarantee that it would make money, and it goes against principles that have been upheld in the past.
Ah well,
See Ya ;-)
PinkPig
Page: