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You know that the market's going downhill when...
*A console that boasts original & inovative games, brilliant first-party support and the first standard modem for a console... fails. The console boasted analogue buttons and mobile gaming. It invented Cell Shading- a technique that has been adopted by Miyamoto-san.
Of course, I'm talking about the Dreamcast. The console was excellent in all ways- except marketting and brand name. Just because the console couldn't push big banners around on TV, it failed. Sad indeed.
*A console whose launch proved that everything the manufacturers had said was a lie- photorealism, revolution and originality- succeeds. The launch games were SO far off the massive multi-million polygon creative demos shown that they were unrecognisable from what was being expected. A console that was riddled with more faults (in both development and implementation) than the millenium dome.
The PS2. By no means a bad console- but comparing like-for-like, the Dreamcast should have outsold it by acres.
'Tis a sad time for the gaming industry- marketting sells over quality, and those without money lose. Neither MS nor Ninty will be able to break Sony's dominance- EVEN if they produce the greatest games ever, AND Sony developed the worst games ever.
Dire indeed.
Sonic
*A console that boasts original & inovative games, brilliant first-party support and the first standard modem for a console... fails. The console boasted analogue buttons and mobile gaming. It invented Cell Shading- a technique that has been adopted by Miyamoto-san.
Of course, I'm talking about the Dreamcast. The console was excellent in all ways- except marketting and brand name. Just because the console couldn't push big banners around on TV, it failed. Sad indeed.
*A console whose launch proved that everything the manufacturers had said was a lie- photorealism, revolution and originality- succeeds. The launch games were SO far off the massive multi-million polygon creative demos shown that they were unrecognisable from what was being expected. A console that was riddled with more faults (in both development and implementation) than the millenium dome.
The PS2. By no means a bad console- but comparing like-for-like, the Dreamcast should have outsold it by acres.
'Tis a sad time for the gaming industry- marketting sells over quality, and those without money lose. Neither MS nor Ninty will be able to break Sony's dominance- EVEN if they produce the greatest games ever, AND Sony developed the worst games ever.
Dire indeed.
Sonic
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Having said that, although "My Generation" by the Who never reached number 1, EVERYONE knows it while I've not even heard of the songs that beat it at the time.
Likewise, Mario 64 and Goldeneye are remembered as classics while the Fifa's and mainstream games that outsold them at the time are pretty much forgotten.
Although the N64 deserved to get kicked in by the Playstation (In fact, if Sony hadn't forced Nintendo to cut the prices drastically, I might never have picked up my N64 with Goldeneye and 4 pads for £120), it was still a superior console and I'm glad I got it at the time I got it (decent back catalgoue, reduced prices - games costing £40 instead of £60, and plenty of great stuff to come).
Likewise, Mario 64 and Goldeneye are remembered as classics while the Fifa's and mainstream games that outsold them at the time are pretty much forgotten.
Although the N64 deserved to get kicked in by the Playstation (In fact, if Sony hadn't forced Nintendo to cut the prices drastically, I might never have picked up my N64 with Goldeneye and 4 pads for £120), it was still a superior console and I'm glad I got it at the time I got it (decent back catalgoue, reduced prices - games costing £40 instead of £60, and plenty of great stuff to come).
Cheers for the replies people!
Concerning the N64, it was a failure in a sense. Although actual unit sales were high, Ninty over 60% of the console market before the N64... now where do they stand? The N64 probably had no more than 15% of the market, and the GC is aimed at getting some of the edge back (perhaps up to 25%?).
Oh, but before some one says it, this is NOT an example of a good console (like the DC) dying. The N64 deserved to do less well than the PS. While Sony gave money to small developers, charged low publishing costs, gave excellent dev support and pumped loads into getting exclusives, Ninty got companies to pay highly for the privilidge of releasing games on their console, refused any developers other than themselves to release games until after launch, and were just very arrogant. Very much like Sony with the PS2.
However, Sony had the edge of the brand name they knew publishers would flock to. They may not be so lucky next time around...
Oh, and the music industry is a great analogy. While quality bands have few sales, samish pop-songs make millions. Lennin's Imagine didn't get anywhere when it was re-released last xmas!
Sonic
Concerning the N64, it was a failure in a sense. Although actual unit sales were high, Ninty over 60% of the console market before the N64... now where do they stand? The N64 probably had no more than 15% of the market, and the GC is aimed at getting some of the edge back (perhaps up to 25%?).
Oh, but before some one says it, this is NOT an example of a good console (like the DC) dying. The N64 deserved to do less well than the PS. While Sony gave money to small developers, charged low publishing costs, gave excellent dev support and pumped loads into getting exclusives, Ninty got companies to pay highly for the privilidge of releasing games on their console, refused any developers other than themselves to release games until after launch, and were just very arrogant. Very much like Sony with the PS2.
However, Sony had the edge of the brand name they knew publishers would flock to. They may not be so lucky next time around...
Oh, and the music industry is a great analogy. While quality bands have few sales, samish pop-songs make millions. Lennin's Imagine didn't get anywhere when it was re-released last xmas!
Sonic
It's kinds like the music industry really.
Groups and cack bands that advertise the most sell a lot more and are a lot more popular and loved than the bands creating the 'real music'. But being hidden away from comercialism is only a good thing for them.
So who really cares if a console isn't selling the best??
Aslong as you've got the console you want, you should be happy, and shouln't worry about it's effects on other people.
And as for the Dreamcast, i'm gunna get one from SR very soon.
One main reason for doing so is because of the exclusive Sonic and Shenmue games (aswell as one or two others), and also because the price is now right for a console that is fading away.
So as long as there are some people that feel this way about each console, it'll still be appreciated and loved, which should be more important than the sales it makes! I don't care what console sells best. There are people that do though and rushed out to buy the popular PS2.
And even though the DC isn't very popular, i'm still gunna get one!
The same also applies to the GameCube, and I still play my 'un-popular' N64 on a regular basis!
Groups and cack bands that advertise the most sell a lot more and are a lot more popular and loved than the bands creating the 'real music'. But being hidden away from comercialism is only a good thing for them.
So who really cares if a console isn't selling the best??
Aslong as you've got the console you want, you should be happy, and shouln't worry about it's effects on other people.
And as for the Dreamcast, i'm gunna get one from SR very soon.
One main reason for doing so is because of the exclusive Sonic and Shenmue games (aswell as one or two others), and also because the price is now right for a console that is fading away.
So as long as there are some people that feel this way about each console, it'll still be appreciated and loved, which should be more important than the sales it makes! I don't care what console sells best. There are people that do though and rushed out to buy the popular PS2.
And even though the DC isn't very popular, i'm still gunna get one!
The same also applies to the GameCube, and I still play my 'un-popular' N64 on a regular basis!
Totoro wrote:
> But i don't decide whether a console was a success or a failure in
> terms of its sales figures or market domination, i look at the games.
> And in that way, the N64, like the DC to a certain extent was a
> success as it gave us the best games, depite not being as poulular as
> the PSOne.
A consoles success is determined by how much profit was made.
The Playstation was a huge success, the N64 a small success, the Dreamcast a failure.
There is a difference between a console's sucess and how good it is.
> But i don't decide whether a console was a success or a failure in
> terms of its sales figures or market domination, i look at the games.
> And in that way, the N64, like the DC to a certain extent was a
> success as it gave us the best games, depite not being as poulular as
> the PSOne.
A consoles success is determined by how much profit was made.
The Playstation was a huge success, the N64 a small success, the Dreamcast a failure.
There is a difference between a console's sucess and how good it is.
I was going to go for the dreamcast, it had allot going for it, but I decided to wait and see how well it would do alongside the PS2. The PS2 did better so I bought that console instead. I don't regret my choice, but I think I would have been just as happy owning a DC as I am with owning a PS2.
I agree with SONICRAV's the original post.
The Dreamcast was a fantastic machine, and would now (if it had survived) be a truly great console, perhaps the greatest ever.
I've still yet to see on other consoles graphics that come anywhere near the detail of Shenmue 1&2 (I know graphics aren't everything but it shows how powerful the DC was).
I had to sell my PS2 - I'd built up an almost irrational hatred towards Sony.
I still can't believe the PSone was outselling the Dreamcast in 2000.
A travesty.
The Dreamcast was a fantastic machine, and would now (if it had survived) be a truly great console, perhaps the greatest ever.
I've still yet to see on other consoles graphics that come anywhere near the detail of Shenmue 1&2 (I know graphics aren't everything but it shows how powerful the DC was).
I had to sell my PS2 - I'd built up an almost irrational hatred towards Sony.
I still can't believe the PSone was outselling the Dreamcast in 2000.
A travesty.
But i don't decide whether a console was a success or a failure in terms of its sales figures or market domination, i look at the games. And in that way, the N64, like the DC to a certain extent was a success as it gave us the best games, depite not being as poulular as the PSOne.
Then again, the N64 did mark the end of Nintendo's dominance over the games market. Back in the days of the Nes, Nintendo were dominant than Sony.
They did lose a bit of ground to Sega's Mega Drive but never really lost control of the market until the Playstation came around.
Like Turbo said, Nintendo got cocky and made mistakes in price and third party support.
Still, Sony made a lot of similar mistakes with the PS2 that the Dreamcast SHOULD have tounced it for, but the gamers went for the label instead.
Pity really...
They did lose a bit of ground to Sega's Mega Drive but never really lost control of the market until the Playstation came around.
Like Turbo said, Nintendo got cocky and made mistakes in price and third party support.
Still, Sony made a lot of similar mistakes with the PS2 that the Dreamcast SHOULD have tounced it for, but the gamers went for the label instead.
Pity really...
Turbonutter wrote:
> N64 definitely failed. Nintendo got too cocky
Explain how the N64 failed????
Did it fail beacause it had Mario64, Zelda:OoT, GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Mario Tennis & Golf, 1080, F-Zero, Banjo Kazooie & Tooie, Smash Bros etc etc etc
It provided us with quality gaming for about 3 or so years.
If thats the sign of a console failing then blow me down with a feather!!
> N64 definitely failed. Nintendo got too cocky
Explain how the N64 failed????
Did it fail beacause it had Mario64, Zelda:OoT, GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Mario Tennis & Golf, 1080, F-Zero, Banjo Kazooie & Tooie, Smash Bros etc etc etc
It provided us with quality gaming for about 3 or so years.
If thats the sign of a console failing then blow me down with a feather!!
The N64 didn't fail.
It was never as sucessful as the giant Playstation but Nintendo sold more than enough to make a decent profit out of it.
A slight sucess, not a huge one but certainly not failure.
It was never as sucessful as the giant Playstation but Nintendo sold more than enough to make a decent profit out of it.
A slight sucess, not a huge one but certainly not failure.
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