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I had this long discussion with some guy in the games industry yesterday. He use to work for Rare and knows what he's talking about.
Right. Here's what I've got to say on the recent rumours regarding this Activision milarky.
Well for starters I'll state that I'm not sure whether or not Activision have bought out Rare or not. May have some more news next week regarding this, if it hasn't already been officially announced or “denied”! But I'm going to tell you why I'm no longer saying "Of course they haven't! Rare are in bed with Nintendo! Best palls! etc"
Well I found out it is actually TRUE that Rare have been looking into going multi platform for some time! A while back some changes went on at NOA (Nintendo of America), and ever since Rare have not been getting along as well as they once were with NOA! Rare work kind of like Nintendo use to. The games finished when it's finished approach to releasing their games. But Nintendo has now changed over to this shorter game, but more frequent policy. Where a game should not take longer than say two years to complete. But Rare still prefer the approach of a game being finished when it's finished. Not creating smaller games just so you can get more of them out. This is just one of the things that is wrong at the moment.
Another point I'd like to make is that Rare would quite like to go multi because just think how much more money they'd make. Take Acclaim for example. They're releasing Turok Evolution on every possible platform. The games looking pretty sweet, so most people who own each platform are going to buy it. This equals MASSIVE sales, thus MASSIVE amounts of money. But if they were to just release it on one console then they're not going to make half as much money. And so, if Rare who have a VERY credible reputation were to release, say Perfect Dark 2 on EVERY platform, then they're going to make LOADS of money because everyone would want it! I believe that Rare maybe starting to think this way!
Many people have said that Rare needs Nintendo because they use Nintendo's characters! Well the only characters Rare use are the Star Fox team, and "Donkey Kong". Starfox Adventures would have been just as popular without the Star Fox characters. Remember the game was originally developed as Dinosaur Planet without those characters, and people were really excited about it back then. The game could EASILY sell well without the Nintendo characters.
You may be wondering why I put Donkey Kong in inverted commas. Well when Rare took on Donkey Kong from Nintendo to create Donkey Kong Country all those years ago, a deal was signed which said that any additional characters created were then owned by "Rare"! What does this mean? Well if Rare were to go multi platform, then their legally allowed to go and create Diddy Kong Racing 2 and release it on X-Box if they so wished!
The reason most people want to deny these rumours is because like me their die-hard Nintendo fans and don’t want to see Nintendo loose their greatest second party developer to other consoles. I have the utmost respect for Rare and I really want to work for them in the future. And I use to really want to work solely on Nintendo games. That’s why I was also one who thought I DON’T want this to happen. But I’ve thought about this a lot. Would it really be that bad for Rare to go multi? The games industry at the moment isn’t really in the most pleasant of states. Companies are being forced to close down or be bought out because they can’t keep up with the big players and their generic @#&% games they keep coming out with! The time of small companies producing successful games is getting less and less. So am I being selfish in wanting Rare to be solely committed to Nintendo? It’s a tuff choice. I personally still believe that Nintendo create the best consoles and controllers etc and so I REALLY want to see them do well, and not go under like Sega has. But I believe Rare maybe getting pulled back. If they went multi and released a VERY popular games (how could they not?) across ALL platforms, then that would make them a LOT of money. More money leads to more funds. More funds lead to expansion. Expansion means that Rare will be able to create even more of their CLASSIC games more often. Is that a bad thing? Of course not! It’d be great! So why should we hold Rare back? Would it be so bad to let them go multi?
I’ll leave it there because I’ve got some work to get done now. Post your thoughts, comments, and I’ll make some more comments.
:)
Right. Here's what I've got to say on the recent rumours regarding this Activision milarky.
Well for starters I'll state that I'm not sure whether or not Activision have bought out Rare or not. May have some more news next week regarding this, if it hasn't already been officially announced or “denied”! But I'm going to tell you why I'm no longer saying "Of course they haven't! Rare are in bed with Nintendo! Best palls! etc"
Well I found out it is actually TRUE that Rare have been looking into going multi platform for some time! A while back some changes went on at NOA (Nintendo of America), and ever since Rare have not been getting along as well as they once were with NOA! Rare work kind of like Nintendo use to. The games finished when it's finished approach to releasing their games. But Nintendo has now changed over to this shorter game, but more frequent policy. Where a game should not take longer than say two years to complete. But Rare still prefer the approach of a game being finished when it's finished. Not creating smaller games just so you can get more of them out. This is just one of the things that is wrong at the moment.
Another point I'd like to make is that Rare would quite like to go multi because just think how much more money they'd make. Take Acclaim for example. They're releasing Turok Evolution on every possible platform. The games looking pretty sweet, so most people who own each platform are going to buy it. This equals MASSIVE sales, thus MASSIVE amounts of money. But if they were to just release it on one console then they're not going to make half as much money. And so, if Rare who have a VERY credible reputation were to release, say Perfect Dark 2 on EVERY platform, then they're going to make LOADS of money because everyone would want it! I believe that Rare maybe starting to think this way!
Many people have said that Rare needs Nintendo because they use Nintendo's characters! Well the only characters Rare use are the Star Fox team, and "Donkey Kong". Starfox Adventures would have been just as popular without the Star Fox characters. Remember the game was originally developed as Dinosaur Planet without those characters, and people were really excited about it back then. The game could EASILY sell well without the Nintendo characters.
You may be wondering why I put Donkey Kong in inverted commas. Well when Rare took on Donkey Kong from Nintendo to create Donkey Kong Country all those years ago, a deal was signed which said that any additional characters created were then owned by "Rare"! What does this mean? Well if Rare were to go multi platform, then their legally allowed to go and create Diddy Kong Racing 2 and release it on X-Box if they so wished!
The reason most people want to deny these rumours is because like me their die-hard Nintendo fans and don’t want to see Nintendo loose their greatest second party developer to other consoles. I have the utmost respect for Rare and I really want to work for them in the future. And I use to really want to work solely on Nintendo games. That’s why I was also one who thought I DON’T want this to happen. But I’ve thought about this a lot. Would it really be that bad for Rare to go multi? The games industry at the moment isn’t really in the most pleasant of states. Companies are being forced to close down or be bought out because they can’t keep up with the big players and their generic @#&% games they keep coming out with! The time of small companies producing successful games is getting less and less. So am I being selfish in wanting Rare to be solely committed to Nintendo? It’s a tuff choice. I personally still believe that Nintendo create the best consoles and controllers etc and so I REALLY want to see them do well, and not go under like Sega has. But I believe Rare maybe getting pulled back. If they went multi and released a VERY popular games (how could they not?) across ALL platforms, then that would make them a LOT of money. More money leads to more funds. More funds lead to expansion. Expansion means that Rare will be able to create even more of their CLASSIC games more often. Is that a bad thing? Of course not! It’d be great! So why should we hold Rare back? Would it be so bad to let them go multi?
I’ll leave it there because I’ve got some work to get done now. Post your thoughts, comments, and I’ll make some more comments.
:)
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Dringo wrote:
> 5: The only disagreement between RARE and Nintendo was regards Jet
> Force Gemini where Shigsy didn't like the game, only to then give the
> massive star fox game to the same team.
Actually Nintendo got annoyed at Rare for the length of time they spent making Conkers Bad Fur Day. That game started development at the same time as Dream (now who can tell me which game that became???) and then turned into a rude game. Nintendo didn't really want to release that game in the end, so there was a bit of a disagreement there!
:)
> 5: The only disagreement between RARE and Nintendo was regards Jet
> Force Gemini where Shigsy didn't like the game, only to then give the
> massive star fox game to the same team.
Actually Nintendo got annoyed at Rare for the length of time they spent making Conkers Bad Fur Day. That game started development at the same time as Dream (now who can tell me which game that became???) and then turned into a rude game. Nintendo didn't really want to release that game in the end, so there was a bit of a disagreement there!
:)
*Hands Solskjær money*
Hey Cooky, am I seeing things or did you fail to mention the name 'Britney Spears' AT ALL in the original post!! ;D
Anyway, after just reading Dringo's latest topic, I have had the thought that Rare making games for other consoles just wouldn't work aswell as it would on Nintendo consoles.
Why?? Because of the pads. Each Nintendo pad has always been quite similar to the last on each console. And when you compare say... the GameCube's pad with the PS2's or X-box's, or even the N64's with the PSX's and Dreamcast's, you'll notice that they are all different to the other in more ways than one.
And by looking at the types and styles of games Rare have and can produce over the years, I just don't think that Rare games would play that easily on non-Nintendo formats. We'd end up with an Acclaim and Turok situation on the N64 (read Dringo's post if you don't know what I mean.
Anyway, after just reading Dringo's latest topic, I have had the thought that Rare making games for other consoles just wouldn't work aswell as it would on Nintendo consoles.
Why?? Because of the pads. Each Nintendo pad has always been quite similar to the last on each console. And when you compare say... the GameCube's pad with the PS2's or X-box's, or even the N64's with the PSX's and Dreamcast's, you'll notice that they are all different to the other in more ways than one.
And by looking at the types and styles of games Rare have and can produce over the years, I just don't think that Rare games would play that easily on non-Nintendo formats. We'd end up with an Acclaim and Turok situation on the N64 (read Dringo's post if you don't know what I mean.
Cooky wrote:
"You doing a course in anything, or do you just dabble in your spare time?"
I dabble, constantly. Not just in my spare time, but when I'm supposed to be working too. :0D
I've considered taking a course, but there's nothing really that suits what I want to do. If there was a "help develop your imagination" course, then that's probably more for me. But Games Development is all about programming and stuff, and isn't what I'm intending to be part of. I just want to design.
"You doing a course in anything, or do you just dabble in your spare time?"
I dabble, constantly. Not just in my spare time, but when I'm supposed to be working too. :0D
I've considered taking a course, but there's nothing really that suits what I want to do. If there was a "help develop your imagination" course, then that's probably more for me. But Games Development is all about programming and stuff, and isn't what I'm intending to be part of. I just want to design.
I think that there will be one beneficiary and one major casualty if Rare decide to go muliformat.
The beneficiary = Us. Me and you, the people that play games. I probably would buy a Nintendo console anyway, but for whatever reasons some people don't and they don't have access to Rare (who lets face it, are up there with the best developers of the world) games. If Rare were to go multiormat, then everyone could enjoy their games and get the best out of one of the most talented bunch of developers out there.
The casualty = Nintendo. As much as they wouldn't actually like to admit, I think that Rare aved the N64. Rare are absolutely ESSENTIAL to Nintendo, because Nintendo games were so few and far between Rare games forced many people into buying the console. Think about it - Goldeneye, Banjo etc. If Nintendo lose Rare, then there won't be that be that extra lure of buying the console.
The beneficiary = Us. Me and you, the people that play games. I probably would buy a Nintendo console anyway, but for whatever reasons some people don't and they don't have access to Rare (who lets face it, are up there with the best developers of the world) games. If Rare were to go multiormat, then everyone could enjoy their games and get the best out of one of the most talented bunch of developers out there.
The casualty = Nintendo. As much as they wouldn't actually like to admit, I think that Rare aved the N64. Rare are absolutely ESSENTIAL to Nintendo, because Nintendo games were so few and far between Rare games forced many people into buying the console. Think about it - Goldeneye, Banjo etc. If Nintendo lose Rare, then there won't be that be that extra lure of buying the console.
1: Diddy Kong is a registered trade mark of Nintendo and 4Kids entertainment.
2: Shiguru Miyamoto: We are making some shorter games to appeal to the more casual audience but the games you expect to be long will be long, we have spoken to many 2nd oarty developers, RARE and Silicon Knights in particular and both of them will be keeping with the longer games as we had hoped.
3: Donkey Kong is a major game franchise responsible for over half of RARE's total income!
4: RARE loved Nintendo for saving them from that hole back in the SNES days...
5: The only disagreement between RARE and Nintendo was regards Jet Force Gemini where Shigsy didn't like the game, only to then give the massive star fox game to the same team.
6: Starfox Adventures will not do as well if it returned to Dinosaur Planet as RARE would lose EAD. and are you aware how popular Starfox is.
7: Would RARE really decide to become multi format having to change or scrap 2 of their games?
2: Shiguru Miyamoto: We are making some shorter games to appeal to the more casual audience but the games you expect to be long will be long, we have spoken to many 2nd oarty developers, RARE and Silicon Knights in particular and both of them will be keeping with the longer games as we had hoped.
3: Donkey Kong is a major game franchise responsible for over half of RARE's total income!
4: RARE loved Nintendo for saving them from that hole back in the SNES days...
5: The only disagreement between RARE and Nintendo was regards Jet Force Gemini where Shigsy didn't like the game, only to then give the massive star fox game to the same team.
6: Starfox Adventures will not do as well if it returned to Dinosaur Planet as RARE would lose EAD. and are you aware how popular Starfox is.
7: Would RARE really decide to become multi format having to change or scrap 2 of their games?
Has this strayed from the subject a little...?
Grix Thraves wrote:
> I'm so glad I'm not trying for programing or "visual"
> design... I mean, I'm visually creative, but I couldn't make a perfect
> model, with rain that could bounce off their nose sort of thing. But
> I'll draw him, and make a quick model in Max for you. :0)
I'm gonna be trying to create a jet ski that spray water around, and then that water will bounce/run off object which get water sprayed onto them.
You doing a course in anything, or do you just dabble in your spare time?
:)
> I'm so glad I'm not trying for programing or "visual"
> design... I mean, I'm visually creative, but I couldn't make a perfect
> model, with rain that could bounce off their nose sort of thing. But
> I'll draw him, and make a quick model in Max for you. :0)
I'm gonna be trying to create a jet ski that spray water around, and then that water will bounce/run off object which get water sprayed onto them.
You doing a course in anything, or do you just dabble in your spare time?
:)
Cooky wrote:
"I've spoken to quite a few people who've been in the games industry. And they don't half try to put you off. It may sound cool and exciting, but when you start hearing about the 130 hr a week work hours, some people can't help but think, is this really the line of work I want to go into."
Heh, I think about games about that amount too. :0) Writing notes down, any old pap. That's something that wouldn't bother me an inch.
I'd get annoyed if I didn't get holidays every now and again though, I'd want to come down and see my family.
"Personally I'm still gonna get into the games industry. It's my dream, my life! I'm gonna get there! I'm still not certain as to whether or not programmings my thing, even though I continue to battle away at it, to try and learn it. I really want to get into design as I'm a creative person, and this bashin' in pages and pages of code, just isn't really that rewarding. Actually, I'm programming graphics at the moment, so by the time I've got it all done, it 'should' look pretty sweet. But I'd rather just use Max to do it, instead of programming all the blastard little triangles to make up a scene!"
Same here. I use Max a lot, for doing crappy little animations. I'm trying for games design at the moment, because that's what I need to do. Good luck with anything you end up going for!
"erm... sorry for the deviation."
No problem.
"Loads of people in the games industry leave after a while cos they just get burned out from all the work on a game. They then leave to do other things like, become uni lecturers, or form their own companies where they can just do what THEY want to do. Not have someone else forcing them to work into the ground to meet a deadline!"
Forcing into the ground with Rareware? ;0) I'm kidding... but I can kinda see how people get burned out.
"Now back to my particle system. Trying to get the things to collide with a surface. Nightmare! Narr probably not that bad. Just gotta be bothered to look at it fully!"
I'm so glad I'm not trying for programing or "visual" design... I mean, I'm visually creative, but I couldn't make a perfect model, with rain that could bounce off their nose sort of thing. But I'll draw him, and make a quick model in Max for you. :0)
"I've spoken to quite a few people who've been in the games industry. And they don't half try to put you off. It may sound cool and exciting, but when you start hearing about the 130 hr a week work hours, some people can't help but think, is this really the line of work I want to go into."
Heh, I think about games about that amount too. :0) Writing notes down, any old pap. That's something that wouldn't bother me an inch.
I'd get annoyed if I didn't get holidays every now and again though, I'd want to come down and see my family.
"Personally I'm still gonna get into the games industry. It's my dream, my life! I'm gonna get there! I'm still not certain as to whether or not programmings my thing, even though I continue to battle away at it, to try and learn it. I really want to get into design as I'm a creative person, and this bashin' in pages and pages of code, just isn't really that rewarding. Actually, I'm programming graphics at the moment, so by the time I've got it all done, it 'should' look pretty sweet. But I'd rather just use Max to do it, instead of programming all the blastard little triangles to make up a scene!"
Same here. I use Max a lot, for doing crappy little animations. I'm trying for games design at the moment, because that's what I need to do. Good luck with anything you end up going for!
"erm... sorry for the deviation."
No problem.
"Loads of people in the games industry leave after a while cos they just get burned out from all the work on a game. They then leave to do other things like, become uni lecturers, or form their own companies where they can just do what THEY want to do. Not have someone else forcing them to work into the ground to meet a deadline!"
Forcing into the ground with Rareware? ;0) I'm kidding... but I can kinda see how people get burned out.
"Now back to my particle system. Trying to get the things to collide with a surface. Nightmare! Narr probably not that bad. Just gotta be bothered to look at it fully!"
I'm so glad I'm not trying for programing or "visual" design... I mean, I'm visually creative, but I couldn't make a perfect model, with rain that could bounce off their nose sort of thing. But I'll draw him, and make a quick model in Max for you. :0)
Cooky wrote:
> Well that's what a guy who worked on the Donkey Kong Country games
> told me.
You met him?
Tell him he rules and if he didn't work on DK64, tell him that it was crap without him (if he DID make DK64, don't mention I said that... ;-))!
As for Rare going multiformat, I've got no problem with that, only they'd lose a lot of technical support from Nintendo.
Most of the reason their games are technologically superior to third parties is that they get full details and tricks of the hardware straight from it's designers. I hear that they even gave Nintendo a few pointers for the GC's architecture.
Having said that, I suppose Rare have grown into a big enough company to fend for themselves now, and if Nintendo are trying to force them to cut their creativeness by forcing them to follow this "short n sweet" policy, perhaps it's worth the slight graphical loss for a more complete game.
Also, if Rare are more independant, maybe we'll get their games before the US from now on.
It would be a shame for them to lose the DK and Starfox lisences but I think that Jet Force Gemini and Conkers Bad Fur Day show that they're more than capable of coming up with their own.
Either way, I'm planning to work for them and I'll be more than happy if EVERYONE rather than just the INTELLIGENT gamers* got to play my games!
*Don't worry Xbox and PS2 owners, I'm only joking! ;-)
> Well that's what a guy who worked on the Donkey Kong Country games
> told me.
You met him?
Tell him he rules and if he didn't work on DK64, tell him that it was crap without him (if he DID make DK64, don't mention I said that... ;-))!
As for Rare going multiformat, I've got no problem with that, only they'd lose a lot of technical support from Nintendo.
Most of the reason their games are technologically superior to third parties is that they get full details and tricks of the hardware straight from it's designers. I hear that they even gave Nintendo a few pointers for the GC's architecture.
Having said that, I suppose Rare have grown into a big enough company to fend for themselves now, and if Nintendo are trying to force them to cut their creativeness by forcing them to follow this "short n sweet" policy, perhaps it's worth the slight graphical loss for a more complete game.
Also, if Rare are more independant, maybe we'll get their games before the US from now on.
It would be a shame for them to lose the DK and Starfox lisences but I think that Jet Force Gemini and Conkers Bad Fur Day show that they're more than capable of coming up with their own.
Either way, I'm planning to work for them and I'll be more than happy if EVERYONE rather than just the INTELLIGENT gamers* got to play my games!
*Don't worry Xbox and PS2 owners, I'm only joking! ;-)
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