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So Metal Gear Solid 2.
Was it worth the wait? The anticipation? The excitement of starting it for the first time?
Yes.
And no.
(Well, this is me so you didn’t expect a 100% positive did you? Bah, foolish mortals)
We all know the first one (although it technically isn’t the first one, if you know what I mean you pedantic people), and it was top. More fool me for not replaying it and capturing that original “Well this rocks” feeling, trust me, if you haven’t done so already, go back and play the original one before you crank the shiny new version.
Because the original Metal Gear is so much better.
Yep, you read that right, the PSX version is more fun than the PS2 version.
Why?
Because it’s original, innovative, sensational and ground breaking, whilst MGS2 is very good, but just another game.
Now don’t get me wrong, it’s superb fun but I expected more. Not because of the hype and yadda yadda yadda. I expected more because of Metal Gear Solid, which is why you should revisit that again to see what I mean.
MGS2 is all about the surface.
It looks fantastic, the rain effects and all the other things you’ve seen in the demo and trailer. The animation of the guards is spot-on and superbly done, my personal fav is the dude with the walkman on in the tanker hold bopping along towards you. The environment is, without question, excellent. The little touches like the parrot in the cage, the seagulls etc. You can shoot melons and crockery and whatnot and spend hours just wandering about admiring bits and bobs.
So why did I sit there thinking “Well this is all well and good, but something’s missing”?
Because, despite all the nice little touches of atmosphere, it’s the same thing level after level.
Run here, hide for a bit, kill this bloke and move to the next screen.
Repeat.
What is missing is the spark of ingenuity from Metal Gear Solid.
Remember that torture sequence? Where you had to mash the buttons to prevent death?
That’s back in MGS2 but last about 5 seconds.
Remember the helicopter attack, trying to shoot that down?
That’s back in MGS2 but it’s a harrier jet instead.
Remember the dude in the cell at the start that died from a “heart attack”?
That’s back in MSG2 but the name is different.
Remember guiding the missile through the labs to hit a panel?
That’s back, exactly the same as last time.
Remember hiding under the box to fool the wolves?
That’s back, except the box has no real purpose in this game.
And that’s what prevents this game from having the same impact or “Hey cool!” of the first one – that spark is missing from MGS2, what your left with is a nice looking game with little underneath to pull you in.
Metal Gear Solid was all about breaking your expectations, throwing you a curve ball and making you sit up and realise just how cool the game was.
Moments like spending an age searching for the CODEC frequency, only to discover it’s in a screenshot on the back of the box.
Moments like putting the controller in port 2 so that the boss couldn’t read your movements and predict your attack.
Moments like hiding under that box and getting it to pee on you so you could sneak past, or the little bit where the boss read your memory card and mocked you for playing other Konami titles.
Little instances that propelled MGS from “just another game”, touches that made me think “This is really cool, they’ve put some thought into this”
And all those little moments have been ignored for nice graphics in MGS2.
You don’t need to use the box for anything, I’ve never used the phone that receives email, nor the cigarettes, nor the chaff grenades. So many unnecessary items just there for show.
It’s lacking that extra little something that makes it different to any other game, something as simple as using a screenshot on the box for a clue. Kojima used genuine innovation, used every feature and sense at your disposal to push you into thinking laterally, rewarding you for bothering to think.
But not in MGS2.
Nice graphics, nice atmosphere, nice animations.
But it lacks that special something that made me think “Oh baby this is sweet!”.
“Snake/Raiden, get to this place and then I’ll phone you again and tell you to go somewhere else”, is how most the CODEC conversations should have gone.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s a bad game by any means, but it just doesn’t feel like it’s anywhere near as original as MGS.
Same situations repeated, same items given, same characters appear.
And the cut-scenes. Lengthy, cinematic but drags the game down every single time they appear. And if you think they’re “Amazing, unbelievable man”, I promise you that the 2nd time you play through, you’ll skip them.
And the CODEC.
How many times can you be contacted right in the middle of the action?
Talk about yanking you out any atmosphere created.
“Cool, I’m Snake and this is a tense moment here swimming through the flooded section. What I really need is a 3 minute chat with Rose, who will blather on about King Kong movies and love!”
Rubbish.
If you are going to create an atmosphere with excellent graphics, don’t keep shattering the momentum with pointlessly long and irrelevant CODEC chats please.
So, apart from the annoying CODEC and cut-scenes, the overly-familiar characters, the same old sections and “tricks” being used in identical situations, the lack of momentum by continual phone calls, the “This is the same as MGS” feeling, MGS2 is a good game.
It’s nowhere near brilliant, and the more I think about it, the less impressed I am by it. But it’s certainly a good game, but I don’t feel it should be called “Metal Gear Solid 2”, because for a game that came out a good few years ago, it doesn’t stand up in comparison.
And there’s no VR training, which is rubbish.
And if you start on easy, you begin as Raiden and completely miss out the tanker section with Snake.
Metal Gear Solid 2: It’s Mediocre But Fun.
Was it worth the wait? The anticipation? The excitement of starting it for the first time?
Yes.
And no.
(Well, this is me so you didn’t expect a 100% positive did you? Bah, foolish mortals)
We all know the first one (although it technically isn’t the first one, if you know what I mean you pedantic people), and it was top. More fool me for not replaying it and capturing that original “Well this rocks” feeling, trust me, if you haven’t done so already, go back and play the original one before you crank the shiny new version.
Because the original Metal Gear is so much better.
Yep, you read that right, the PSX version is more fun than the PS2 version.
Why?
Because it’s original, innovative, sensational and ground breaking, whilst MGS2 is very good, but just another game.
Now don’t get me wrong, it’s superb fun but I expected more. Not because of the hype and yadda yadda yadda. I expected more because of Metal Gear Solid, which is why you should revisit that again to see what I mean.
MGS2 is all about the surface.
It looks fantastic, the rain effects and all the other things you’ve seen in the demo and trailer. The animation of the guards is spot-on and superbly done, my personal fav is the dude with the walkman on in the tanker hold bopping along towards you. The environment is, without question, excellent. The little touches like the parrot in the cage, the seagulls etc. You can shoot melons and crockery and whatnot and spend hours just wandering about admiring bits and bobs.
So why did I sit there thinking “Well this is all well and good, but something’s missing”?
Because, despite all the nice little touches of atmosphere, it’s the same thing level after level.
Run here, hide for a bit, kill this bloke and move to the next screen.
Repeat.
What is missing is the spark of ingenuity from Metal Gear Solid.
Remember that torture sequence? Where you had to mash the buttons to prevent death?
That’s back in MGS2 but last about 5 seconds.
Remember the helicopter attack, trying to shoot that down?
That’s back in MGS2 but it’s a harrier jet instead.
Remember the dude in the cell at the start that died from a “heart attack”?
That’s back in MSG2 but the name is different.
Remember guiding the missile through the labs to hit a panel?
That’s back, exactly the same as last time.
Remember hiding under the box to fool the wolves?
That’s back, except the box has no real purpose in this game.
And that’s what prevents this game from having the same impact or “Hey cool!” of the first one – that spark is missing from MGS2, what your left with is a nice looking game with little underneath to pull you in.
Metal Gear Solid was all about breaking your expectations, throwing you a curve ball and making you sit up and realise just how cool the game was.
Moments like spending an age searching for the CODEC frequency, only to discover it’s in a screenshot on the back of the box.
Moments like putting the controller in port 2 so that the boss couldn’t read your movements and predict your attack.
Moments like hiding under that box and getting it to pee on you so you could sneak past, or the little bit where the boss read your memory card and mocked you for playing other Konami titles.
Little instances that propelled MGS from “just another game”, touches that made me think “This is really cool, they’ve put some thought into this”
And all those little moments have been ignored for nice graphics in MGS2.
You don’t need to use the box for anything, I’ve never used the phone that receives email, nor the cigarettes, nor the chaff grenades. So many unnecessary items just there for show.
It’s lacking that extra little something that makes it different to any other game, something as simple as using a screenshot on the box for a clue. Kojima used genuine innovation, used every feature and sense at your disposal to push you into thinking laterally, rewarding you for bothering to think.
But not in MGS2.
Nice graphics, nice atmosphere, nice animations.
But it lacks that special something that made me think “Oh baby this is sweet!”.
“Snake/Raiden, get to this place and then I’ll phone you again and tell you to go somewhere else”, is how most the CODEC conversations should have gone.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s a bad game by any means, but it just doesn’t feel like it’s anywhere near as original as MGS.
Same situations repeated, same items given, same characters appear.
And the cut-scenes. Lengthy, cinematic but drags the game down every single time they appear. And if you think they’re “Amazing, unbelievable man”, I promise you that the 2nd time you play through, you’ll skip them.
And the CODEC.
How many times can you be contacted right in the middle of the action?
Talk about yanking you out any atmosphere created.
“Cool, I’m Snake and this is a tense moment here swimming through the flooded section. What I really need is a 3 minute chat with Rose, who will blather on about King Kong movies and love!”
Rubbish.
If you are going to create an atmosphere with excellent graphics, don’t keep shattering the momentum with pointlessly long and irrelevant CODEC chats please.
So, apart from the annoying CODEC and cut-scenes, the overly-familiar characters, the same old sections and “tricks” being used in identical situations, the lack of momentum by continual phone calls, the “This is the same as MGS” feeling, MGS2 is a good game.
It’s nowhere near brilliant, and the more I think about it, the less impressed I am by it. But it’s certainly a good game, but I don’t feel it should be called “Metal Gear Solid 2”, because for a game that came out a good few years ago, it doesn’t stand up in comparison.
And there’s no VR training, which is rubbish.
And if you start on easy, you begin as Raiden and completely miss out the tanker section with Snake.
Metal Gear Solid 2: It’s Mediocre But Fun.
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Played more today, liked more today. A bit more emotional stuff, and I noticed some more nice gameplay additions. I'm not very far into the game at all (trying to savour every bit) and I'm just trying to use the coolant on the final massive C4, at the bottom of Strut A. I'm looking forward to the rest. {:)
I've just realised this thread should have been called "MGS2: Tons of Liberties"
Damn.
Why didn't I think of this yesterday
Damn.
Why didn't I think of this yesterday
Salvatore wrote:
> MGS2 has sme amzing emotion in the characters i would give an example but i dont
> want to spoil to game for any1
Really? Cool, glad you didn't spoil it for me. {:)
Maybe'll I'll like MGS2 more than MGS yet...
> MGS2 has sme amzing emotion in the characters i would give an example but i dont
> want to spoil to game for any1
Really? Cool, glad you didn't spoil it for me. {:)
Maybe'll I'll like MGS2 more than MGS yet...
FantasyMeister wrote:
> Ant wrote:
One question: I started a new game on
> the Plant with Raiden,
> does this mean my stats at the end will not include the
> stuff I did on the
> ship with Snake?
Not necessarily. When you finish a game having started from
> the '1st Time' link, you get the option of saving your data once you've got a
> clear code. Everytime you clear a game after that, just save it over the last
> one you cleared. Then next time you play, load that old cleared data in, start
> a new game from Tanker, Plant or Tanker/Plant, and all your old dogtags and
> items will be included.
Humm, thanks. Only problem is I haven't actually completed the game, I got a fair way with Raiden only to find myself with no M9, and completely stuck at one point, so I just started again...
> Ant wrote:
One question: I started a new game on
> the Plant with Raiden,
> does this mean my stats at the end will not include the
> stuff I did on the
> ship with Snake?
Not necessarily. When you finish a game having started from
> the '1st Time' link, you get the option of saving your data once you've got a
> clear code. Everytime you clear a game after that, just save it over the last
> one you cleared. Then next time you play, load that old cleared data in, start
> a new game from Tanker, Plant or Tanker/Plant, and all your old dogtags and
> items will be included.
Humm, thanks. Only problem is I haven't actually completed the game, I got a fair way with Raiden only to find myself with no M9, and completely stuck at one point, so I just started again...
Ant wrote:
One question: I started a new game on
> the Plant with Raiden, does this mean my stats at the end will not include the
> stuff I did on the ship with Snake?
Not necessarily. When you finish a game having started from the '1st Time' link, you get the option of saving your data once you've got a clear code. Everytime you clear a game after that, just save it over the last one you cleared. Then next time you play, load that old cleared data in, start a new game from Tanker, Plant or Tanker/Plant, and all your old dogtags and items will be included.
One question: I started a new game on
> the Plant with Raiden, does this mean my stats at the end will not include the
> stuff I did on the ship with Snake?
Not necessarily. When you finish a game having started from the '1st Time' link, you get the option of saving your data once you've got a clear code. Everytime you clear a game after that, just save it over the last one you cleared. Then next time you play, load that old cleared data in, start a new game from Tanker, Plant or Tanker/Plant, and all your old dogtags and items will be included.
As FM proved there are some new touches, and others such as new gameplay options-peeking round corners to take out enemies, flipping and grabbing onto rails etc.
However, I agree. MGS was special, and what I liked most about it was the emotion and characters. So far I've not seen any emotional interaction between characters. I mean, the scene where Sniper Wolf dies and the wolves howl, the music loudens and gets higher, and Otacon cries-I've never experienced anything like that in a game. MGS was just...amazing. I also loved the bit straight after where everything was silent and as Snake walked off Otacon said, "Why are we doing this Snake?! Why am I doing this? Why are you doing this!?"
Snake turns and says something like, "Once we get out of here, maybe I'll tell ya."
As he walks off Otacon says, "Well, I'll be watching, Snake."
I mean, I've never felt anything like it in a game, and anything like Mario/Zelda could never produce something like that, which is why I think MGS is the best game ever.
No doubt that MGS2 is the best graphically and also offers the wonderful gameplay MGS has, as well as some brilliant additions and some cool plot twists. As just a video game, MGS2 is the best out there and I've played this more in one day than I have for any other PS2 game. I'm no where near the end yet and so I'm hoping for more, maybe some more character interaction, but I would say that MGS offered a more emotional and better gaming experience overall.
Do I like MGS2? Most definitely, I probably won't be on here so much for a week or so as I complete it, and then explore everything else it has to offer.
But I expect if I had to bring one game with me onto a desert island, it would be MGS. And although Nintys will laugh at me that I don't like MGS as much as MGS2, just remember that MGS was on a Sony console, and if that is better than all PS2 and GC games for me, then it shows nothing for what the GC and X-Box has to offer.
MGS2: A fantastic game, but MGS was too special to be beaten.
One question: I started a new game on the Plant with Raiden, does this mean my stats at the end will not include the stuff I did on the ship with Snake?
However, I agree. MGS was special, and what I liked most about it was the emotion and characters. So far I've not seen any emotional interaction between characters. I mean, the scene where Sniper Wolf dies and the wolves howl, the music loudens and gets higher, and Otacon cries-I've never experienced anything like that in a game. MGS was just...amazing. I also loved the bit straight after where everything was silent and as Snake walked off Otacon said, "Why are we doing this Snake?! Why am I doing this? Why are you doing this!?"
Snake turns and says something like, "Once we get out of here, maybe I'll tell ya."
As he walks off Otacon says, "Well, I'll be watching, Snake."
I mean, I've never felt anything like it in a game, and anything like Mario/Zelda could never produce something like that, which is why I think MGS is the best game ever.
No doubt that MGS2 is the best graphically and also offers the wonderful gameplay MGS has, as well as some brilliant additions and some cool plot twists. As just a video game, MGS2 is the best out there and I've played this more in one day than I have for any other PS2 game. I'm no where near the end yet and so I'm hoping for more, maybe some more character interaction, but I would say that MGS offered a more emotional and better gaming experience overall.
Do I like MGS2? Most definitely, I probably won't be on here so much for a week or so as I complete it, and then explore everything else it has to offer.
But I expect if I had to bring one game with me onto a desert island, it would be MGS. And although Nintys will laugh at me that I don't like MGS as much as MGS2, just remember that MGS was on a Sony console, and if that is better than all PS2 and GC games for me, then it shows nothing for what the GC and X-Box has to offer.
MGS2: A fantastic game, but MGS was too special to be beaten.
One question: I started a new game on the Plant with Raiden, does this mean my stats at the end will not include the stuff I did on the ship with Snake?
Craw wrote:
> As most sequels are.
Thats the problem with sequels. People buy them cos
> they're like the first game, but are gutted then when they realise they could
> have just played the first game again.
There's no real solution to this
> though.
With a sequel to a game, the engine will be improved however it will almost always be not up to the quality of the original in terms of storyline and originality.
In my view, Metal Gear Solid 2 is just another game, I have no idea why people got so hyped up about it...
> As most sequels are.
Thats the problem with sequels. People buy them cos
> they're like the first game, but are gutted then when they realise they could
> have just played the first game again.
There's no real solution to this
> though.
With a sequel to a game, the engine will be improved however it will almost always be not up to the quality of the original in terms of storyline and originality.
In my view, Metal Gear Solid 2 is just another game, I have no idea why people got so hyped up about it...
Excellent topic Goatboy. Wrapped up my opinion in my one. Yes it was a great game, but just not anything like MGS the original or even Goldeneye?!
It looked good, felt beautiful.. but where is the 'must play again factor. I have completed (did on Sunday). What the hell happened?
In the end it doesn't even matter.. I have Metroid to look forward too.
What are you PS2 gamers waiting for now? There are no other games? :D
It looked good, felt beautiful.. but where is the 'must play again factor. I have completed (did on Sunday). What the hell happened?
In the end it doesn't even matter.. I have Metroid to look forward too.
What are you PS2 gamers waiting for now? There are no other games? :D
Box stuff from Konami's website:
"You can spot a guy wearing a cardboard box on the CD connecting bridge. You must go to the CD connecting bridge within 1 minute after the Peter demo. (After 1 minute, or if you go to another location, the cardboard will no longer appear.
If you attack the cardboard box man, he will run away while leaving cardboard box debris. Even if his cardboard box is totally destroyed, he will wear another one.
If you wear a cardboard box and keep on calling Pliskin on the Codec, he will start talking about his passion for cardboard boxes.
And if you totally destroy the cardboard box of the guy on the CD connecting bridge, you can hear Pliskin's grievance."
Another thing I've found is if you go to the parcel room (with the boxes on the conveyor belts) and jump onto the conveyor loading platform at the SW end of the room, then equip Box Type 2, you'll go on the conveyor and be taken to a room with more items.
Also, each area has boxes stacked in places which give you a clue as to which type of box you can use for that particular area (wrong box and the guards suss you out).
That's just the fun stuff with boxes, there's loads of stuff you can do with Emma, Emma's parrot, the sea lice (they get into your inventory and you can finish the game with them there to get a special ranking), the C4, the Nikita missiles, the Body Armor, you name it, every item in the game seems to have some kind of unusual use as well as the obvious uses.
*FM sneaks off to unearth more secrets*
"You can spot a guy wearing a cardboard box on the CD connecting bridge. You must go to the CD connecting bridge within 1 minute after the Peter demo. (After 1 minute, or if you go to another location, the cardboard will no longer appear.
If you attack the cardboard box man, he will run away while leaving cardboard box debris. Even if his cardboard box is totally destroyed, he will wear another one.
If you wear a cardboard box and keep on calling Pliskin on the Codec, he will start talking about his passion for cardboard boxes.
And if you totally destroy the cardboard box of the guy on the CD connecting bridge, you can hear Pliskin's grievance."
Another thing I've found is if you go to the parcel room (with the boxes on the conveyor belts) and jump onto the conveyor loading platform at the SW end of the room, then equip Box Type 2, you'll go on the conveyor and be taken to a room with more items.
Also, each area has boxes stacked in places which give you a clue as to which type of box you can use for that particular area (wrong box and the guards suss you out).
That's just the fun stuff with boxes, there's loads of stuff you can do with Emma, Emma's parrot, the sea lice (they get into your inventory and you can finish the game with them there to get a special ranking), the C4, the Nikita missiles, the Body Armor, you name it, every item in the game seems to have some kind of unusual use as well as the obvious uses.
*FM sneaks off to unearth more secrets*
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