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P.D and Shareware has always been a consistent source for new and innovative titles...
Of course, its also been the primary source for rehashed, half baked, badly written nonsense, but alike the Playstation owner in the face of imminent GC and X-Box launches, we'll forget about them for the moment and concentrate on our successes...
Although awareness of shareware and PD has increased at almost the same rate as the influence of the internet into our individual lives and collective consciousness, it was already developing a strong presence in the late eighties, early nineties, when the most popular ways to get PD was either through a direct dialled BBS or more commonly ordering from dodgy Ads from the back of computer mags...
One of the primary driving forces behind the increasing popularity of P.D. was games development (I even had a dabble myself, with my AMOS wonder 'Egg-Blasters') ... notably, utilities were also popular, however, since P.D utilities pre-date commercially sold software, and since this is going to be about games development, I'll leave forget about PD utilities for the moment...
Anyway... PD Games increased in popularity, and influence steadily, boosted enormously, as I’ve already said, from the Internet being accessible to the general public. Even, creating its own heroes, of sorts, of whom EPIC Mega games and of course id seem to be the most famous.
There was, I remember, much speculation at the time of computer software being sold solely over the Internet, and that software being held on a physical medium would become a thing of the past. However, since this was also the time when people speculated the internet would do away with all other form of communications, and that humans would live solitary lives sitting at the computer 24hrs a day, never to see the sun, I think that it can be chalked up as another case of the media talking rubbish and another reason never to believe anything you read, and to publicly, and vocally mock anyone in the media as loudly as frequently as possible. :)
Point is, and there kinda is one, that there were a lot of people writing their own games...
It was different to the early eighties, which is why I'm purposely missing it out and starting in the early nineties, it was possible then for one person to write a hit title, more importantly to note, it was possible for one person to write a titles that for the time, represented the state of the art. Partly because no one knew if gaming would last, partly because no one really knew what was going on, and where if anywhere, it was going. As the years passed, it seemed to die down as companies started to get formally formed, things started to get professional, and people started saying talking about the death of the bedroom programmer, and the need for teams to write a valid contemporary title.
By the time P.D. games were at their peak, many people were writing in teams... At the very least, there was a guy who just did the graphics, another composing the music and sound effects, a couple more writing the code...
Thing is stuff was actually being done, people were working together to write the code, and games were being produced, although, by this time it was more shareware than P.D.)...
We were at the beginning of the time where the popular press, and popular option started to consider games development solely to be the domain of professional developers, that games were too complex, graphics too advanced, music of too high a quality for the humble public to be able to develop titles of suitable quality without the required budget and time to back them up, an opinion which they stuck to during, despite and since the successes of Doom, Duke Nukem, etc.
Then (like in the eighties?) things moved on, the shareware/P.D. successes, including Epic and (most notably) id became 'professional' businesses, they started selling their games on CD through Activision, the worlds first third party developer (it was also at this point, that the playstation & co. became the toys that all aspiring international bright young things were required to own).
Anyway, time moved on, but things didn’t, consoles remained the dominate force in gaming entertainment, the popular press and popular opinion continued to state that games can now only be developed by companies with huge budgets, and that the humble member of the general public cant write software to compete without a huge budget and years of development time.
Although it seems, games are the ONLY form of popular entertainment were this is considered a valid point of view... every couple years, musically, cinematically, literally (okay that one doesn’t work as well, but you get the idea), there’s some home made movie, or album which was written and recorded in the basement, novel written in the spare time which is a huge success and helps propel the industry forward with new ideas, fresh momentum, and another cash cow to milk...
Its an easy excuse to allow people to have opinions and complaints about the lack of originality of games, how quality is being sacrificed for cash, how games should have been written, and what someone should write...
As a side note, to notice the popularity, of predicting the death of the PC, even the popularity of promoting its demise as a gaming machine, (within these forums!) though take note, after its demise, as you sit in front of your TV screens, with the next EA Sports franchise sitting in your console, there will be little left for the amateur developers work with.
However, back to the point... We need people to be cutting their teeth as early as possible, people who have had the freedom to try things out, take risks with new ideas, see which of them work, which fail and to have the time to understand why, without having to worry about budget constraints, release dates and potential profitability of a title. P.D and Shareware is how the vast majority of the most popular developers got going today, British developers especially, and they site it as the reason for their success.
There doesn’t seem to be the same strength in P.D. games development now as there used to be, and although there seems to be more people with options of how games should be, there are very few who are actually doing something about it, without which, the gaming industry, and the gamer will suffer sorely and be much the worse for it.
Of course, its also been the primary source for rehashed, half baked, badly written nonsense, but alike the Playstation owner in the face of imminent GC and X-Box launches, we'll forget about them for the moment and concentrate on our successes...
Although awareness of shareware and PD has increased at almost the same rate as the influence of the internet into our individual lives and collective consciousness, it was already developing a strong presence in the late eighties, early nineties, when the most popular ways to get PD was either through a direct dialled BBS or more commonly ordering from dodgy Ads from the back of computer mags...
One of the primary driving forces behind the increasing popularity of P.D. was games development (I even had a dabble myself, with my AMOS wonder 'Egg-Blasters') ... notably, utilities were also popular, however, since P.D utilities pre-date commercially sold software, and since this is going to be about games development, I'll leave forget about PD utilities for the moment...
Anyway... PD Games increased in popularity, and influence steadily, boosted enormously, as I’ve already said, from the Internet being accessible to the general public. Even, creating its own heroes, of sorts, of whom EPIC Mega games and of course id seem to be the most famous.
There was, I remember, much speculation at the time of computer software being sold solely over the Internet, and that software being held on a physical medium would become a thing of the past. However, since this was also the time when people speculated the internet would do away with all other form of communications, and that humans would live solitary lives sitting at the computer 24hrs a day, never to see the sun, I think that it can be chalked up as another case of the media talking rubbish and another reason never to believe anything you read, and to publicly, and vocally mock anyone in the media as loudly as frequently as possible. :)
Point is, and there kinda is one, that there were a lot of people writing their own games...
It was different to the early eighties, which is why I'm purposely missing it out and starting in the early nineties, it was possible then for one person to write a hit title, more importantly to note, it was possible for one person to write a titles that for the time, represented the state of the art. Partly because no one knew if gaming would last, partly because no one really knew what was going on, and where if anywhere, it was going. As the years passed, it seemed to die down as companies started to get formally formed, things started to get professional, and people started saying talking about the death of the bedroom programmer, and the need for teams to write a valid contemporary title.
By the time P.D. games were at their peak, many people were writing in teams... At the very least, there was a guy who just did the graphics, another composing the music and sound effects, a couple more writing the code...
Thing is stuff was actually being done, people were working together to write the code, and games were being produced, although, by this time it was more shareware than P.D.)...
We were at the beginning of the time where the popular press, and popular option started to consider games development solely to be the domain of professional developers, that games were too complex, graphics too advanced, music of too high a quality for the humble public to be able to develop titles of suitable quality without the required budget and time to back them up, an opinion which they stuck to during, despite and since the successes of Doom, Duke Nukem, etc.
Then (like in the eighties?) things moved on, the shareware/P.D. successes, including Epic and (most notably) id became 'professional' businesses, they started selling their games on CD through Activision, the worlds first third party developer (it was also at this point, that the playstation & co. became the toys that all aspiring international bright young things were required to own).
Anyway, time moved on, but things didn’t, consoles remained the dominate force in gaming entertainment, the popular press and popular opinion continued to state that games can now only be developed by companies with huge budgets, and that the humble member of the general public cant write software to compete without a huge budget and years of development time.
Although it seems, games are the ONLY form of popular entertainment were this is considered a valid point of view... every couple years, musically, cinematically, literally (okay that one doesn’t work as well, but you get the idea), there’s some home made movie, or album which was written and recorded in the basement, novel written in the spare time which is a huge success and helps propel the industry forward with new ideas, fresh momentum, and another cash cow to milk...
Its an easy excuse to allow people to have opinions and complaints about the lack of originality of games, how quality is being sacrificed for cash, how games should have been written, and what someone should write...
As a side note, to notice the popularity, of predicting the death of the PC, even the popularity of promoting its demise as a gaming machine, (within these forums!) though take note, after its demise, as you sit in front of your TV screens, with the next EA Sports franchise sitting in your console, there will be little left for the amateur developers work with.
However, back to the point... We need people to be cutting their teeth as early as possible, people who have had the freedom to try things out, take risks with new ideas, see which of them work, which fail and to have the time to understand why, without having to worry about budget constraints, release dates and potential profitability of a title. P.D and Shareware is how the vast majority of the most popular developers got going today, British developers especially, and they site it as the reason for their success.
There doesn’t seem to be the same strength in P.D. games development now as there used to be, and although there seems to be more people with options of how games should be, there are very few who are actually doing something about it, without which, the gaming industry, and the gamer will suffer sorely and be much the worse for it.
Page:
And P.D. stands for what?
Sorry, I read the thread, but haven't got a clue what that stands for!
Sorry, I read the thread, but haven't got a clue what that stands for!
Congrats on the win as well!
Thoroughly deserved!
Thoroughly deserved!
"no, but, you know, I'm not trying to pretend that P.D. / Open Sourse software would always be compete with professionally created stuff... "
But there's no reason why it couldn't come close.
With the use of Direct X standardising stuff like graphics, sound etc, it's easier to create a good looking and soundsing game.
Also, as faster and faster processors come along, sloppy code (which is what something like DarkBasic WOULD produce) would still run quite well.
All that's would be different would be AI routines, which would be VERY hard for one person to code. But if you bear these limitations in mind when making the game, it shouldn't cause too much of a problem.
You can tell a story without hours and hours of FMV (something that MGS2 owners may not realise... :-p), as MAx PAyne shouwed with it's storyboard style approach.
All you need is an idea and some imagination, and you should be able to create a half decent game. That's if DarkBasic allows you to realise your ideas of course. As I've said, I haven't used it yet, but I'm not expecting much. But hopefully software like this will get better and better.
You thinking of giving it a go Shanks? Going to make your own game? www.darkbasic.com where you can download a trial version...
But there's no reason why it couldn't come close.
With the use of Direct X standardising stuff like graphics, sound etc, it's easier to create a good looking and soundsing game.
Also, as faster and faster processors come along, sloppy code (which is what something like DarkBasic WOULD produce) would still run quite well.
All that's would be different would be AI routines, which would be VERY hard for one person to code. But if you bear these limitations in mind when making the game, it shouldn't cause too much of a problem.
You can tell a story without hours and hours of FMV (something that MGS2 owners may not realise... :-p), as MAx PAyne shouwed with it's storyboard style approach.
All you need is an idea and some imagination, and you should be able to create a half decent game. That's if DarkBasic allows you to realise your ideas of course. As I've said, I haven't used it yet, but I'm not expecting much. But hopefully software like this will get better and better.
You thinking of giving it a go Shanks? Going to make your own game? www.darkbasic.com where you can download a trial version...
Your Honour wrote:
Obviously with these kits you probably won't be able to create
> stunning FMV sequences etc, although you maybe able to make AVI files like Grix
> does and add them into the game at certain points?
-----------------------------------------------------------
no, but, you know, I'm not trying to pretend that P.D. / Open Sourse software would always be compete with professionally created stuff...
I just reckon it would be nice for people people to have a go at creating something themselves, getting a feel of whats works and what doesnt, and why a lot of simingly simple things are so bloody hard to do! :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
Anyway, after doing a
> little bit of research, I'm going to download the demo of DarkBasic sometime
> this week, not sure when - probably won't be 'til about wednesday, so look out
> for the next YH game - in stores soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------
lol... you never know, what with the current interest around here you may spark something off... become the UK's Linus Torvold! :)
Obviously with these kits you probably won't be able to create
> stunning FMV sequences etc, although you maybe able to make AVI files like Grix
> does and add them into the game at certain points?
-----------------------------------------------------------
no, but, you know, I'm not trying to pretend that P.D. / Open Sourse software would always be compete with professionally created stuff...
I just reckon it would be nice for people people to have a go at creating something themselves, getting a feel of whats works and what doesnt, and why a lot of simingly simple things are so bloody hard to do! :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
Anyway, after doing a
> little bit of research, I'm going to download the demo of DarkBasic sometime
> this week, not sure when - probably won't be 'til about wednesday, so look out
> for the next YH game - in stores soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------
lol... you never know, what with the current interest around here you may spark something off... become the UK's Linus Torvold! :)
I hope we end with a range of games development kits as well. That way the development of them will be quicker than if the DarkBasic people have a monopoly on the market.
Obviously with these kits you probably won't be able to create stunning FMV sequences etc, although you maybe able to make AVI files like Grix does and add them into the game at certain points?
Anyway, after doing a little bit of research, I'm going to download the demo of DarkBasic sometime this week, not sure when - probably won't be 'til about wednesday, so look out for the next YH game - in stores soon!
:-D
Obviously with these kits you probably won't be able to create stunning FMV sequences etc, although you maybe able to make AVI files like Grix does and add them into the game at certain points?
Anyway, after doing a little bit of research, I'm going to download the demo of DarkBasic sometime this week, not sure when - probably won't be 'til about wednesday, so look out for the next YH game - in stores soon!
:-D
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
> Good to have you back Shanks!
I'm wondering where you're getting this idea
> that MODs only come out for FPS games. They do come out for other games as well,
> you know.
The Sims had a HUGE online MOD community, as do games like Red
> Alert etc. Initially MODs did only come out for FPS's, but as the popularity of
> the 'net increased, developers realised that their game would have a much longer
> life if communities could be encouraged to make levels, weapons, skins etc for
> their game.
Which is why more and more games are coming with level editors
> etc built in.
-----------------------------------------------------------
yeah, I know, I know... it probably just because whenever I hear people chatting about MODS they usually seem to be chatting about FPS stuff... and what with the success of Counter Strike, its always the conclusion I jump too that FPS mods are the only ones being made...
I even thought people had pretty much completly stopped making RTS mods???
terrible prejudice :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
MY point is, at the moment programs like DarkBasic etc probably
> aren't that flaexible. You probably have to stick with some predfined structure
> (I say probably, becuase I haven't used it although I'm thinking of getting it).
> However I think we'll see better and better programs like it come out.
So in
> a couple of years a solitary programmer will be able to create a half decent
> game, using something like DarkBasic.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you completly man...
(Much to my shame, in the early ninties, I used to use the Amiga equivelent -- well, the Amiga equivelent of the ST language) ...
And it does seem to be something thats getting to be surprisingly popular, (I was reading a thread that had started in the PC forum earlier today) though I hope we end up with a range of Game Development kits, of varying complexity and sophistication... so beginners can dabble with the simplest tools, and progress (or not) as they get more drawn into development?) to more sophisticated programming languages?
Your Honour wrote:
> Good to have you back Shanks!
I'm wondering where you're getting this idea
> that MODs only come out for FPS games. They do come out for other games as well,
> you know.
The Sims had a HUGE online MOD community, as do games like Red
> Alert etc. Initially MODs did only come out for FPS's, but as the popularity of
> the 'net increased, developers realised that their game would have a much longer
> life if communities could be encouraged to make levels, weapons, skins etc for
> their game.
Which is why more and more games are coming with level editors
> etc built in.
-----------------------------------------------------------
yeah, I know, I know... it probably just because whenever I hear people chatting about MODS they usually seem to be chatting about FPS stuff... and what with the success of Counter Strike, its always the conclusion I jump too that FPS mods are the only ones being made...
I even thought people had pretty much completly stopped making RTS mods???
terrible prejudice :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
MY point is, at the moment programs like DarkBasic etc probably
> aren't that flaexible. You probably have to stick with some predfined structure
> (I say probably, becuase I haven't used it although I'm thinking of getting it).
> However I think we'll see better and better programs like it come out.
So in
> a couple of years a solitary programmer will be able to create a half decent
> game, using something like DarkBasic.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you completly man...
(Much to my shame, in the early ninties, I used to use the Amiga equivelent -- well, the Amiga equivelent of the ST language) ...
And it does seem to be something thats getting to be surprisingly popular, (I was reading a thread that had started in the PC forum earlier today) though I hope we end up with a range of Game Development kits, of varying complexity and sophistication... so beginners can dabble with the simplest tools, and progress (or not) as they get more drawn into development?) to more sophisticated programming languages?
Good to have you back Shanks!
I'm wondering where you're getting this idea that MODs only come out for FPS games. They do come out for other games as well, you know.
The Sims had a HUGE online MOD community, as do games like Red Alert etc. Initially MODs did only come out for FPS's, but as the popularity of the 'net increased, developers realised that their game would have a much longer life if communities could be encouraged to make levels, weapons, skins etc for their game.
Which is why more and more games are coming with level editors etc built in.
On a similar note, I think we will see the return of the bedroom programmer over the next couple of years. I made a few levels for the original Quake, using something called WorldCraft. At the time I thought it was a really good progam, but compared to the one that comes with UT, it was rubbish.
MY point is, at the moment programs like DarkBasic etc probably aren't that flaexible. You probably have to stick with some predfined structure (I say probably, becuase I haven't used it although I'm thinking of getting it). However I think we'll see better and better programs like it come out.
So in a couple of years a solitary programmer will be able to create a half decent game, using something like DarkBasic.
I'm wondering where you're getting this idea that MODs only come out for FPS games. They do come out for other games as well, you know.
The Sims had a HUGE online MOD community, as do games like Red Alert etc. Initially MODs did only come out for FPS's, but as the popularity of the 'net increased, developers realised that their game would have a much longer life if communities could be encouraged to make levels, weapons, skins etc for their game.
Which is why more and more games are coming with level editors etc built in.
On a similar note, I think we will see the return of the bedroom programmer over the next couple of years. I made a few levels for the original Quake, using something called WorldCraft. At the time I thought it was a really good progam, but compared to the one that comes with UT, it was rubbish.
MY point is, at the moment programs like DarkBasic etc probably aren't that flaexible. You probably have to stick with some predfined structure (I say probably, becuase I haven't used it although I'm thinking of getting it). However I think we'll see better and better programs like it come out.
So in a couple of years a solitary programmer will be able to create a half decent game, using something like DarkBasic.
Your Honour wrote:
> Shanks (sorry, I can't
> get used to your new name...).
-----------------------------------------------------------
I tried PResuming Ed. for a day, but decided to move back... scuppered!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
I think you're right. Basically, about whta
> you say in the last paragraph, "there's not enough people with the right
> skills" etc.
There may not be enough of these in the industry at the
> moment, but their are a lot of people with the skills around. Just go to
> somewhere like PlanetUnreal.com and look at how many MOD groups there are, how
> many mappers there are etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Its a shame they are just doing FPS stuff though huh (although I suppose it'll teach them how to work within a limited environment and be more innovative with limited tools???
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
I feel that over the next few years we
> will see the return of PD (or ShareWare, whatever). As more programs like
> DarkBasic come on the market, and as they become easier and easier to use, the
> bedroom programmer will be able to create titles of a higher quality.
-----------------------------------------------------------
yeah, I reckon your right man... I've noticed theres a few people on here who create their own games using these kits...
Cant be a bad thing???
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
And
> with the advent of boradband, people will be able to download games of a couple
> of hundered MB, with little problems.
-----------------------------------------------------------
lol.... a major flaw in writing 'large' PD software... Still, getting 4MB with a 14.4 bps modem is no mean feat :)
> Shanks (sorry, I can't
> get used to your new name...).
-----------------------------------------------------------
I tried PResuming Ed. for a day, but decided to move back... scuppered!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
I think you're right. Basically, about whta
> you say in the last paragraph, "there's not enough people with the right
> skills" etc.
There may not be enough of these in the industry at the
> moment, but their are a lot of people with the skills around. Just go to
> somewhere like PlanetUnreal.com and look at how many MOD groups there are, how
> many mappers there are etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Its a shame they are just doing FPS stuff though huh (although I suppose it'll teach them how to work within a limited environment and be more innovative with limited tools???
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
I feel that over the next few years we
> will see the return of PD (or ShareWare, whatever). As more programs like
> DarkBasic come on the market, and as they become easier and easier to use, the
> bedroom programmer will be able to create titles of a higher quality.
-----------------------------------------------------------
yeah, I reckon your right man... I've noticed theres a few people on here who create their own games using these kits...
Cant be a bad thing???
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
And
> with the advent of boradband, people will be able to download games of a couple
> of hundered MB, with little problems.
-----------------------------------------------------------
lol.... a major flaw in writing 'large' PD software... Still, getting 4MB with a 14.4 bps modem is no mean feat :)
It's sad to see a topic such as this get so few replies Shanks (sorry, I can't get used to your new name...).
I think you're right. Basically, about whta you say in the last paragraph, "there's not enough people with the right skills" etc.
There may not be enough of these in the industry at the moment, but their are a lot of people with the skills around. Just go to somewhere like PlanetUnreal.com and look at how many MOD groups there are, how many mappers there are etc.
There's a lot of people out there who have the skills, but they're just not working in the industry, they're (effectively) giving away what they do for free.
I feel that over the next few years we will see the return of PD (or ShareWare, whatever). As more programs like DarkBasic come on the market, and as they become easier and easier to use, the bedroom programmer will be able to create titles of a higher quality.
And with the advent of boradband, people will be able to download games of a couple of hundered MB, with little problems.
I think you're right. Basically, about whta you say in the last paragraph, "there's not enough people with the right skills" etc.
There may not be enough of these in the industry at the moment, but their are a lot of people with the skills around. Just go to somewhere like PlanetUnreal.com and look at how many MOD groups there are, how many mappers there are etc.
There's a lot of people out there who have the skills, but they're just not working in the industry, they're (effectively) giving away what they do for free.
I feel that over the next few years we will see the return of PD (or ShareWare, whatever). As more programs like DarkBasic come on the market, and as they become easier and easier to use, the bedroom programmer will be able to create titles of a higher quality.
And with the advent of boradband, people will be able to download games of a couple of hundered MB, with little problems.
Hey man, sorry there, I didnt think anyone had replied...
Anyway... You were saying...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
> To be honest, I didn't realise PD was still carrying on, to be honest.
-----------------------------------------------------------
yeah, I should have really written 'Shareware' rather than P.D...
(I should also have written 'Games Development' rather than 'Software Development', but anyway)
Its a bit of an atiquated term these days...
From what I remember P.D. became Shareware, FreeWare, CharityWare, etc... and the P.D. monniker fell into disuse...
I was just after something that covered the whole lot of them.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
Maybe
> I'm just not looking in the right places, but I'm sure it happened a lot more
> back in the days of the Amiga than it does now.
I remember get a couple of
> floppies, both stuffed full of PD games. Some of them were pretty damn good as
> well.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I mean, Id say it was still going strong, stronger than ever in fact, although it seems utilities are what its all about (things like CuteFTP come to mind???)...
It just seems to have become completly 'Shareware' ...
Although, actually thinking about it, I think 'Open Source' may currently be the best term?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
I suppose you could say that the last time something resembling PD
> turning big was the Worms games. The original (which was first released on the
> Amiga) was written by some geezer in his bedroom.
His mate ran an independant
> games shop, and the bloke asked his mate to put Worms on the Amiga in the shop,
> to get opinions from his customers.
Well, Worms turned into a huge cash cow
> that Team 17 are still milking today. In fact, Worms seem to be the only games
> they ever release...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Team 17 started getting big about the time I sold my Amiga I remember they had the top view 'Aliens' type game???
Although, Didnt Doom come out after Worms? I seem to remember reading a review for Worms in Amiga Format, before I noticed PC games?...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
Anyhoo, I don't think that PD will continue much longer
> (if it's still going) simply because of the time and effort involved in making a
> playable game these days. The simple fact is, it doesn't matter how good it
> plays - if a game looks s***e, no one will play it. Even if it's free.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I know what your saying... and to be honest, I'm often put off rubbish looking games... I'm surprised Civ still sells? Or that that internet Planet game was so popular?
But to be fair, this is excatly what people were saying around '93+ ... The Megadrive, SNES popularities were starting to die down, Origin was making games like Wing commander, and CD-ROM was becomming the standard format, and I remeber reading in computer mags, (and people I knew saying pretty much the same thing) that it was impossible for non-professional companies to create decent games... That to create something professional enough for the savvy SNES/Megadrive scale market... or to write something as sophisticated and graphically impressive as Wing Commander... was only possible using professional development teams, that games were going to be so big (640MB) with new CD-ROMS that noone at an amature status could ever write anything up to spec...
And then came Doom, which pretty much blew all professional games of the time out of the water, and generated interest in the then flagginf games market (which Sony skillful managed to maintain and increase)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Your Honour wrote:
Having
> said that, it could be argued that Mods are PD. Afterall, they're made by fans
> of the original game, and are available for free.
Does that constitue PD? Or
> does that fact that you have to buy the original game mean that it's not classed
> as PD?
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Actually, I reckon your probably right... this does seem to be were most budding games developers are going these days... although it does tend to limit their understanding of style to just FPS type games?
Even given the graphical complexities of today, it does seem a shame that with companies like id and that NOLF company (who are they?) giving away their source code for Quake2 and NOLF, (there are quite a few others, but I forget them now???) that noone has taken a look at it, modified it, and pushed out something of their own?
I know that Doom (not overusing id too much am I?) was an exception, and that most shareware at that time was of 'Commander Keen' quality, but it was still garnering an interest at the time, and still a lot of fun to play...
I reckon even if people made games that were of a MegaDrive, SNES graphical quality (given that the games graphics back them were limited more to system spec rather than skill), that a lot of people would be interested?...
Unfortunatly, it seems things are already starting to look dodgy... I was reading an article a few weeks back (just remeber this) about how the games industry, which is trying to expand still, it starting to have real problems designing, developing, even managing games development teams, because there are so few peopl around with any skill ('who arnt crap' I think was the quote?), theres a lot of people who grew up playing games (but have no idea of how to create a decent game), and theres a lot of people who have the disicpline and skill (unfortunatly only in the business field), unfortunatly theres very few people who can do both, and even fewer who can do it well...
I dunno... I'm sure something will turn up? :)
Anyway... You were saying...
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Your Honour wrote:
> To be honest, I didn't realise PD was still carrying on, to be honest.
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yeah, I should have really written 'Shareware' rather than P.D...
(I should also have written 'Games Development' rather than 'Software Development', but anyway)
Its a bit of an atiquated term these days...
From what I remember P.D. became Shareware, FreeWare, CharityWare, etc... and the P.D. monniker fell into disuse...
I was just after something that covered the whole lot of them.
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Your Honour wrote:
Maybe
> I'm just not looking in the right places, but I'm sure it happened a lot more
> back in the days of the Amiga than it does now.
I remember get a couple of
> floppies, both stuffed full of PD games. Some of them were pretty damn good as
> well.
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I mean, Id say it was still going strong, stronger than ever in fact, although it seems utilities are what its all about (things like CuteFTP come to mind???)...
It just seems to have become completly 'Shareware' ...
Although, actually thinking about it, I think 'Open Source' may currently be the best term?
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Your Honour wrote:
I suppose you could say that the last time something resembling PD
> turning big was the Worms games. The original (which was first released on the
> Amiga) was written by some geezer in his bedroom.
His mate ran an independant
> games shop, and the bloke asked his mate to put Worms on the Amiga in the shop,
> to get opinions from his customers.
Well, Worms turned into a huge cash cow
> that Team 17 are still milking today. In fact, Worms seem to be the only games
> they ever release...
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Team 17 started getting big about the time I sold my Amiga I remember they had the top view 'Aliens' type game???
Although, Didnt Doom come out after Worms? I seem to remember reading a review for Worms in Amiga Format, before I noticed PC games?...
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Your Honour wrote:
Anyhoo, I don't think that PD will continue much longer
> (if it's still going) simply because of the time and effort involved in making a
> playable game these days. The simple fact is, it doesn't matter how good it
> plays - if a game looks s***e, no one will play it. Even if it's free.
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I know what your saying... and to be honest, I'm often put off rubbish looking games... I'm surprised Civ still sells? Or that that internet Planet game was so popular?
But to be fair, this is excatly what people were saying around '93+ ... The Megadrive, SNES popularities were starting to die down, Origin was making games like Wing commander, and CD-ROM was becomming the standard format, and I remeber reading in computer mags, (and people I knew saying pretty much the same thing) that it was impossible for non-professional companies to create decent games... That to create something professional enough for the savvy SNES/Megadrive scale market... or to write something as sophisticated and graphically impressive as Wing Commander... was only possible using professional development teams, that games were going to be so big (640MB) with new CD-ROMS that noone at an amature status could ever write anything up to spec...
And then came Doom, which pretty much blew all professional games of the time out of the water, and generated interest in the then flagginf games market (which Sony skillful managed to maintain and increase)
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Your Honour wrote:
Having
> said that, it could be argued that Mods are PD. Afterall, they're made by fans
> of the original game, and are available for free.
Does that constitue PD? Or
> does that fact that you have to buy the original game mean that it's not classed
> as PD?
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Actually, I reckon your probably right... this does seem to be were most budding games developers are going these days... although it does tend to limit their understanding of style to just FPS type games?
Even given the graphical complexities of today, it does seem a shame that with companies like id and that NOLF company (who are they?) giving away their source code for Quake2 and NOLF, (there are quite a few others, but I forget them now???) that noone has taken a look at it, modified it, and pushed out something of their own?
I know that Doom (not overusing id too much am I?) was an exception, and that most shareware at that time was of 'Commander Keen' quality, but it was still garnering an interest at the time, and still a lot of fun to play...
I reckon even if people made games that were of a MegaDrive, SNES graphical quality (given that the games graphics back them were limited more to system spec rather than skill), that a lot of people would be interested?...
Unfortunatly, it seems things are already starting to look dodgy... I was reading an article a few weeks back (just remeber this) about how the games industry, which is trying to expand still, it starting to have real problems designing, developing, even managing games development teams, because there are so few peopl around with any skill ('who arnt crap' I think was the quote?), theres a lot of people who grew up playing games (but have no idea of how to create a decent game), and theres a lot of people who have the disicpline and skill (unfortunatly only in the business field), unfortunatly theres very few people who can do both, and even fewer who can do it well...
I dunno... I'm sure something will turn up? :)
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