The "Sony Games" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
As mentioned in another thread, I mailed Sony with a few questions about the PS2 pre-order scheme. I've had a reply, and the answers are here for all to see...
Q1. When a shop takes a pre-order, are they required to forward completed forms to you immediately, or do they do so when it is convenient to them?
A. We have requested that shops should forward their forms as soon as possible. The forms have to go via their head office before they reach our database handling agency, so the sooner the better really. However, as the queing system is fair, if one branch is later than another the people who ordered first do not have to go to the back of the queue - they are inserted into the correct position.
Q2. I read in one magazine that there were only enough pre-order forms to cover the number of UK machines available. If true, this would imply that a pre-order guarantees a PS2. In addition, when my local Game store contacted me to notify me of the start of the pre-order scheme, they told me in no uncertain terms that once my name was on an official form, I was guaranteed a machine on launch day. I believe this is not the case; could you please confirm?
A. Unfortunately completing an order form does not guarantee you a PS2 on day one. There is only one form per one unit available so completing the form does guarantee you the console, but we are unable to say when.
Q3. I know stock will be extremely short, but are shops guaranteed a minimum number of units per branch, or will they be allocated X units and left to distribute as they see fit?
A. As I mentioned there is only one form per unit. Once the shop has their allocation of units they distribute them on a first come - first served basis. We felt ths was the fairest mannor in which to distribute the available stock.
I also asked about anti-aliasing, and I have to eat my words; PS2 does *not* have hardware anti-aliasing. There are two reasons why I was convinced that it did:
(a) I read in a third-party magazine that a Sony official had produced a technical manual to show his interviewer that PS2 *did* have hardware anti-aliasing.
(b) There was an article on the Daily Radar site some months ago which also claimed anti-aliasing, and gave a graphic example of how it worked.
Slapped wrists all round, methinks!
So, many apologies to Tigerblade. I'm now full up on Humble Pie, so I'll let the nice Sony person explain why PS2 does not anti-alias:
"The PS2 does not have anti-aliasing. This is simply because it is not required. As it is designed for use on a television it is not necessary as it is built in to most televisions."
So there you have it, people - official replies from Simon at PSUK Customer Service, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe.
Q1. When a shop takes a pre-order, are they required to forward completed forms to you immediately, or do they do so when it is convenient to them?
A. We have requested that shops should forward their forms as soon as possible. The forms have to go via their head office before they reach our database handling agency, so the sooner the better really. However, as the queing system is fair, if one branch is later than another the people who ordered first do not have to go to the back of the queue - they are inserted into the correct position.
Q2. I read in one magazine that there were only enough pre-order forms to cover the number of UK machines available. If true, this would imply that a pre-order guarantees a PS2. In addition, when my local Game store contacted me to notify me of the start of the pre-order scheme, they told me in no uncertain terms that once my name was on an official form, I was guaranteed a machine on launch day. I believe this is not the case; could you please confirm?
A. Unfortunately completing an order form does not guarantee you a PS2 on day one. There is only one form per one unit available so completing the form does guarantee you the console, but we are unable to say when.
Q3. I know stock will be extremely short, but are shops guaranteed a minimum number of units per branch, or will they be allocated X units and left to distribute as they see fit?
A. As I mentioned there is only one form per unit. Once the shop has their allocation of units they distribute them on a first come - first served basis. We felt ths was the fairest mannor in which to distribute the available stock.
I also asked about anti-aliasing, and I have to eat my words; PS2 does *not* have hardware anti-aliasing. There are two reasons why I was convinced that it did:
(a) I read in a third-party magazine that a Sony official had produced a technical manual to show his interviewer that PS2 *did* have hardware anti-aliasing.
(b) There was an article on the Daily Radar site some months ago which also claimed anti-aliasing, and gave a graphic example of how it worked.
Slapped wrists all round, methinks!
So, many apologies to Tigerblade. I'm now full up on Humble Pie, so I'll let the nice Sony person explain why PS2 does not anti-alias:
"The PS2 does not have anti-aliasing. This is simply because it is not required. As it is designed for use on a television it is not necessary as it is built in to most televisions."
So there you have it, people - official replies from Simon at PSUK Customer Service, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe.
Page:
Babylonian. Thanks for the reply. I appreciate that this is a very major undertaking on Sony's part but you presume that if they wanted a pre-order system then they should ensure that they have the resources to pull it off well without alienating there customers. I am supposed to be getting my reply by email so I thought that it would be fairly easy to input the info into the computer and then immediately send an email saying 'your order has been processed we will contact you again as soon as we have a date for you to collect your system'. At least then my mind would be set at rest. At the moment how do I know that a catastrophe has not occured and my form has been lost?
I know I am overreacting but I really want to get my hands on the PS2 and I have been desperate too ever since I started following the PS2 story last January.
I am sick of my PC, for similar reasons to you. Unstable games, games that dont want to run at all and generally just more hassle than it is worth. Also I miss lazing on my couch whilst playing games as I have to sit at a desk to use my PC.
I know I am overreacting but I really want to get my hands on the PS2 and I have been desperate too ever since I started following the PS2 story last January.
I am sick of my PC, for similar reasons to you. Unstable games, games that dont want to run at all and generally just more hassle than it is worth. Also I miss lazing on my couch whilst playing games as I have to sit at a desk to use my PC.
> Also I take offence to the 'you may have to wait
> "slightly" longer than 14 days from the date you
> ordered' for your confirmation. So far I have waited an extra 8
> days and counting.
No-one likes to be kept waiting, Matt! Can I just say, though, that I work for a Direct Marketing company as an Analyst/Programmer, and there is a *hell* of a lot of work involved in producing a mailing of the size we're talking about here. Trust me, you'd never believe it unless you were involved.
The letters are highly unlikely to be coming from Sony themselves; although it's an offical letter, they won't be printing them. My company does some work for Sony, but we're not handling the pre-orders.
I agree with your comments and feelings about the 'real fans' though - those names and addresses that match on Sony's database as registered PS1 owners should - in an ideal world - have been given priority. Though this would have added to the delay between registering and receiving your letter.
> "slightly" longer than 14 days from the date you
> ordered' for your confirmation. So far I have waited an extra 8
> days and counting.
No-one likes to be kept waiting, Matt! Can I just say, though, that I work for a Direct Marketing company as an Analyst/Programmer, and there is a *hell* of a lot of work involved in producing a mailing of the size we're talking about here. Trust me, you'd never believe it unless you were involved.
The letters are highly unlikely to be coming from Sony themselves; although it's an offical letter, they won't be printing them. My company does some work for Sony, but we're not handling the pre-orders.
I agree with your comments and feelings about the 'real fans' though - those names and addresses that match on Sony's database as registered PS1 owners should - in an ideal world - have been given priority. Though this would have added to the delay between registering and receiving your letter.
> What utter s h i t e the guy from Sony is talking. Full scene
> hardware antialiasing is something only seen on high end grahics
> processors. Television do NOT have it.... read the spec of any TV
> and it will not say FSAA is a feature.
Well, I thought it was strange as I'd never heard of it. And - like you - I wondered why companies would have spent so much money developing a technology that already existed!
> Ok then consider this. Why oh why does the PSX look so utterly bad
> on even the best of TV's?
I wouldn't say it was terrible, but definitely noticeable. I don't tend to notice when I'm blasting round the tracks on GT2. I think jaggies are definitely more noticeable when watching a game than when playing it.
> My conclusion: The best graphics will, and do, appear on the PC.
> With high resolutions and FSAA enabled there is nothing to touch
> them.
Definitely. I've recently completed Deus Ex and it looks gorgeous all the way through.
> Granted they may be a bit more expensive but then they can
> be upgraded to keep in line with the latest gaming tecnology.
The reason I prefer consoles to my PC is stability. In the five years I've had my PlayStation, it's crashed two - maybe three - times. Any extended playing session on my PC will see at least that many crashes in a day! Particularly frustrating if it happens just as you've successfully negotioated a tricky part of the game for the first time in 30 attempts!
Hopefully, as developers get more and more used to the machine, they'll manage at least lessen the jaggies using software methods, without too much affect on the game's performance. Remember how great Colony Wars looked! And if the published screenshots of The Getaway are genuine, it seems possible. Of course, no one has seen it moving yet!
> hardware antialiasing is something only seen on high end grahics
> processors. Television do NOT have it.... read the spec of any TV
> and it will not say FSAA is a feature.
Well, I thought it was strange as I'd never heard of it. And - like you - I wondered why companies would have spent so much money developing a technology that already existed!
> Ok then consider this. Why oh why does the PSX look so utterly bad
> on even the best of TV's?
I wouldn't say it was terrible, but definitely noticeable. I don't tend to notice when I'm blasting round the tracks on GT2. I think jaggies are definitely more noticeable when watching a game than when playing it.
> My conclusion: The best graphics will, and do, appear on the PC.
> With high resolutions and FSAA enabled there is nothing to touch
> them.
Definitely. I've recently completed Deus Ex and it looks gorgeous all the way through.
> Granted they may be a bit more expensive but then they can
> be upgraded to keep in line with the latest gaming tecnology.
The reason I prefer consoles to my PC is stability. In the five years I've had my PlayStation, it's crashed two - maybe three - times. Any extended playing session on my PC will see at least that many crashes in a day! Particularly frustrating if it happens just as you've successfully negotioated a tricky part of the game for the first time in 30 attempts!
Hopefully, as developers get more and more used to the machine, they'll manage at least lessen the jaggies using software methods, without too much affect on the game's performance. Remember how great Colony Wars looked! And if the published screenshots of The Getaway are genuine, it seems possible. Of course, no one has seen it moving yet!
Ok. For gods sake can we get of this FSAA / EBAA question. It does not matter to me how the jaggies are removed as long as they are!! TTT now has the jaggies removed and the latest screens of the majority of PS2 games are looking jaggie free. Anyway it has to be said that at the end of the day if the game plays well then some jagged edges should not really bother anyone. So lets stop trying to wield the AA issue as a weapon against the PS2.
In regards to the whole pre-order fiasco (which is why I started this discussion) this is the latest I have heard from Sony:
************************
Please note that the order form does state that you will receive confirmation of your order withiun 14 days once your order has been validated. Validation occurs after your order form has been sent to the retailers head office then on to our database management agency who then
have to upload your details.
Once this has occured you will receive confirmation within 14 days. Therefore it may be slightly longer than 14 days from the date you ordered. I hope you can appreciate that you are not the only one keen to get your
unit as close to launch as possible so therefore there are many forms to process. We ask that you please bear with us and await your confirmation letter.
************************
I personally think that they should have arranged it so that there were only enough forms to cover the units available on the day of launch. These could have had the number 1 on them. Then they could have had forms that promised a PS2 after the first week, second week etc.
If this had happened then the real fans who turned up on the first day would at least be guaranteed a PS2 on the day of release rather than the lottery that has occured. I just hope that I am not going to have to wait too long for my PS2!!!
Also I take offence to the 'you may have to wait "slightly" longer than 14 days from the date you ordered' for your confirmation. So far I have waited an extra 8 days and counting.
In regards to the whole pre-order fiasco (which is why I started this discussion) this is the latest I have heard from Sony:
************************
Please note that the order form does state that you will receive confirmation of your order withiun 14 days once your order has been validated. Validation occurs after your order form has been sent to the retailers head office then on to our database management agency who then
have to upload your details.
Once this has occured you will receive confirmation within 14 days. Therefore it may be slightly longer than 14 days from the date you ordered. I hope you can appreciate that you are not the only one keen to get your
unit as close to launch as possible so therefore there are many forms to process. We ask that you please bear with us and await your confirmation letter.
************************
I personally think that they should have arranged it so that there were only enough forms to cover the units available on the day of launch. These could have had the number 1 on them. Then they could have had forms that promised a PS2 after the first week, second week etc.
If this had happened then the real fans who turned up on the first day would at least be guaranteed a PS2 on the day of release rather than the lottery that has occured. I just hope that I am not going to have to wait too long for my PS2!!!
Also I take offence to the 'you may have to wait "slightly" longer than 14 days from the date you ordered' for your confirmation. So far I have waited an extra 8 days and counting.
What utter s h i t e the guy from Sony is talking. Full scene hardware antialiasing is something only seen on high end grahics processors. Television do NOT have it.... read the spec of any TV and it will not say FSAA is a feature.
My reasoning is simple..... WHY would a tv need it??? There is no reason but for computer games, which is not much of a consideration to the likes of Hitachi, Toshiba etc.
Companies like ATI, Nvidia and 3DFX have spent millions on developing graphics cards with these features. These cards
have fast dedicated graphics processors with shed loads of high speed ram. Is the idiot at Sony trying to make us believe that my TV has a GPU and 64 MB of DDR ram???
Ok then consider this. Why oh why does the PSX look so utterly bad on even the best of TV's? Surely if FSAA is implemented then the nasty jagged edges you can see would be less obvious.
The only problems with most of the current machines and the PS2 is that the jagged edges are far too apparent on the screen of the tv. The only two ways to stop this are too either increase the resolution of new tv's or include features like FSAA on the console. Unfortunately you cannot increase the resolution of any current tv as it is will only take a max of 800x600, which both the DC an PS2 run at. You could always run the games on 14 inch tv's where the pixels are less obvious but you wont.
The only consoles which will have FSAA are the Cube thingy and the X-Box as they have PC related components from REAL
graphics chip manufacturers.
I also think the DC also has Hardware anti aliasing but it is not FSAA.
My conclusion: The best graphics will, and do, appear on the PC. With high resolutions and FSAA enabled there is nothing to touch them. Granted they may be a bit more expensive but then they can be upgraded to keep in line with the latest gaming tecnology.
My reasoning is simple..... WHY would a tv need it??? There is no reason but for computer games, which is not much of a consideration to the likes of Hitachi, Toshiba etc.
Companies like ATI, Nvidia and 3DFX have spent millions on developing graphics cards with these features. These cards
have fast dedicated graphics processors with shed loads of high speed ram. Is the idiot at Sony trying to make us believe that my TV has a GPU and 64 MB of DDR ram???
Ok then consider this. Why oh why does the PSX look so utterly bad on even the best of TV's? Surely if FSAA is implemented then the nasty jagged edges you can see would be less obvious.
The only problems with most of the current machines and the PS2 is that the jagged edges are far too apparent on the screen of the tv. The only two ways to stop this are too either increase the resolution of new tv's or include features like FSAA on the console. Unfortunately you cannot increase the resolution of any current tv as it is will only take a max of 800x600, which both the DC an PS2 run at. You could always run the games on 14 inch tv's where the pixels are less obvious but you wont.
The only consoles which will have FSAA are the Cube thingy and the X-Box as they have PC related components from REAL
graphics chip manufacturers.
I also think the DC also has Hardware anti aliasing but it is not FSAA.
My conclusion: The best graphics will, and do, appear on the PC. With high resolutions and FSAA enabled there is nothing to touch them. Granted they may be a bit more expensive but then they can be upgraded to keep in line with the latest gaming tecnology.
As mentioned in another thread, I mailed Sony with a few questions about the PS2 pre-order scheme. I've had a reply, and the answers are here for all to see...
Q1. When a shop takes a pre-order, are they required to forward completed forms to you immediately, or do they do so when it is convenient to them?
A. We have requested that shops should forward their forms as soon as possible. The forms have to go via their head office before they reach our database handling agency, so the sooner the better really. However, as the queing system is fair, if one branch is later than another the people who ordered first do not have to go to the back of the queue - they are inserted into the correct position.
Q2. I read in one magazine that there were only enough pre-order forms to cover the number of UK machines available. If true, this would imply that a pre-order guarantees a PS2. In addition, when my local Game store contacted me to notify me of the start of the pre-order scheme, they told me in no uncertain terms that once my name was on an official form, I was guaranteed a machine on launch day. I believe this is not the case; could you please confirm?
A. Unfortunately completing an order form does not guarantee you a PS2 on day one. There is only one form per one unit available so completing the form does guarantee you the console, but we are unable to say when.
Q3. I know stock will be extremely short, but are shops guaranteed a minimum number of units per branch, or will they be allocated X units and left to distribute as they see fit?
A. As I mentioned there is only one form per unit. Once the shop has their allocation of units they distribute them on a first come - first served basis. We felt ths was the fairest mannor in which to distribute the available stock.
I also asked about anti-aliasing, and I have to eat my words; PS2 does *not* have hardware anti-aliasing. There are two reasons why I was convinced that it did:
(a) I read in a third-party magazine that a Sony official had produced a technical manual to show his interviewer that PS2 *did* have hardware anti-aliasing.
(b) There was an article on the Daily Radar site some months ago which also claimed anti-aliasing, and gave a graphic example of how it worked.
Slapped wrists all round, methinks!
So, many apologies to Tigerblade. I'm now full up on Humble Pie, so I'll let the nice Sony person explain why PS2 does not anti-alias:
"The PS2 does not have anti-aliasing. This is simply because it is not required. As it is designed for use on a television it is not necessary as it is built in to most televisions."
So there you have it, people - official replies from Simon at PSUK Customer Service, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe.
Q1. When a shop takes a pre-order, are they required to forward completed forms to you immediately, or do they do so when it is convenient to them?
A. We have requested that shops should forward their forms as soon as possible. The forms have to go via their head office before they reach our database handling agency, so the sooner the better really. However, as the queing system is fair, if one branch is later than another the people who ordered first do not have to go to the back of the queue - they are inserted into the correct position.
Q2. I read in one magazine that there were only enough pre-order forms to cover the number of UK machines available. If true, this would imply that a pre-order guarantees a PS2. In addition, when my local Game store contacted me to notify me of the start of the pre-order scheme, they told me in no uncertain terms that once my name was on an official form, I was guaranteed a machine on launch day. I believe this is not the case; could you please confirm?
A. Unfortunately completing an order form does not guarantee you a PS2 on day one. There is only one form per one unit available so completing the form does guarantee you the console, but we are unable to say when.
Q3. I know stock will be extremely short, but are shops guaranteed a minimum number of units per branch, or will they be allocated X units and left to distribute as they see fit?
A. As I mentioned there is only one form per unit. Once the shop has their allocation of units they distribute them on a first come - first served basis. We felt ths was the fairest mannor in which to distribute the available stock.
I also asked about anti-aliasing, and I have to eat my words; PS2 does *not* have hardware anti-aliasing. There are two reasons why I was convinced that it did:
(a) I read in a third-party magazine that a Sony official had produced a technical manual to show his interviewer that PS2 *did* have hardware anti-aliasing.
(b) There was an article on the Daily Radar site some months ago which also claimed anti-aliasing, and gave a graphic example of how it worked.
Slapped wrists all round, methinks!
So, many apologies to Tigerblade. I'm now full up on Humble Pie, so I'll let the nice Sony person explain why PS2 does not anti-alias:
"The PS2 does not have anti-aliasing. This is simply because it is not required. As it is designed for use on a television it is not necessary as it is built in to most televisions."
So there you have it, people - official replies from Simon at PSUK Customer Service, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe.
Page: