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Been reading the statement from Lance Armstrong this morning. All seems a bit suspect to me, surely if there was any truth in this he would not slipped under the radar over such a long and extremely successful career?
Apparently he is now to be stripped of all 7 of his TDF titles and they will be handed to whoever finished behind him (providing they are proven to be clean).
If he really is innocent but just tired of trying to fight these ''nonsense'' allegations then is this not making the world of road cycling a total joke?
Shouldn't these allegations really needed to have been dealt with at the time of these events, not years later and is this now going to open the floodgates for sportsmen to now say someone who beat me years ago was a dirty cheating druggie, give me their title unless they can prove they were not?
What do you guys reckon of Mr. Armstrong, GOAT or cheat?
Apparently he is now to be stripped of all 7 of his TDF titles and they will be handed to whoever finished behind him (providing they are proven to be clean).
If he really is innocent but just tired of trying to fight these ''nonsense'' allegations then is this not making the world of road cycling a total joke?
Shouldn't these allegations really needed to have been dealt with at the time of these events, not years later and is this now going to open the floodgates for sportsmen to now say someone who beat me years ago was a dirty cheating druggie, give me their title unless they can prove they were not?
What do you guys reckon of Mr. Armstrong, GOAT or cheat?
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pb wrote:
According to the story on Yahoo! News they do have evidence in old blood tests that they can now use.
Why were these tests not flagged as positive then?, it was only 2-3 years ago, has drug testing really advanced that much in the past 2-3 years? Also if these blood tests have been in storage then could they possibly have been tampered with over this time?
The report states that Armstrong had:
"passed every drug test ever administered to him in his career - a total of 500 to 600 tests ... more drug tests than any athlete in history."
However, this was interesting:
''In the letter, which was published in the Washington Post, the agency said it also has at least 10 former team-mates and colleagues of Armstrong who will testify he used doping drugs during races from 1999 to 2005.
Former team-mate and deposed Tour de France winner Floyd Landis accused Armstrong in 2010 of not only using performance-enhancing drugs but teaching others how to avoid being caught.''
500-600 tests and he still allegedly managed to cheat?, with members of his team and team mates in on it over a multi-year period with no-one spilling the beans? When you look at the odds of all of those things happening it seems pretty implausible to me.
According to the story on Yahoo! News they do have evidence in old blood tests that they can now use.
Why were these tests not flagged as positive then?, it was only 2-3 years ago, has drug testing really advanced that much in the past 2-3 years? Also if these blood tests have been in storage then could they possibly have been tampered with over this time?
The report states that Armstrong had:
"passed every drug test ever administered to him in his career - a total of 500 to 600 tests ... more drug tests than any athlete in history."
However, this was interesting:
''In the letter, which was published in the Washington Post, the agency said it also has at least 10 former team-mates and colleagues of Armstrong who will testify he used doping drugs during races from 1999 to 2005.
Former team-mate and deposed Tour de France winner Floyd Landis accused Armstrong in 2010 of not only using performance-enhancing drugs but teaching others how to avoid being caught.''
500-600 tests and he still allegedly managed to cheat?, with members of his team and team mates in on it over a multi-year period with no-one spilling the beans? When you look at the odds of all of those things happening it seems pretty implausible to me.
pete_21 wrote:
500-600 tests and he still allegedly managed to cheat?, with members of his team and team mates in on it over a multi-year period with no-one spilling the beans? When you look at the odds of all of those things happening it seems pretty implausible to me.
When you look at the number of sports people that have got away with cheating for years, its not implausible sadly.
Its not that blood tests have advanced but if they dont know what they are looking for, he can have 10000 tests and not be caught. Its not a catchall test they are doing but rather looking for specific markers & characteristics. THG didnt get picked up for years for example because they had no clue what to look for.
That doesnt mean hes guilty of course. Hes innocent until proven otherwise and I think hes being treated pretty poorly at the moment.
500-600 tests and he still allegedly managed to cheat?, with members of his team and team mates in on it over a multi-year period with no-one spilling the beans? When you look at the odds of all of those things happening it seems pretty implausible to me.
When you look at the number of sports people that have got away with cheating for years, its not implausible sadly.
Its not that blood tests have advanced but if they dont know what they are looking for, he can have 10000 tests and not be caught. Its not a catchall test they are doing but rather looking for specific markers & characteristics. THG didnt get picked up for years for example because they had no clue what to look for.
That doesnt mean hes guilty of course. Hes innocent until proven otherwise and I think hes being treated pretty poorly at the moment.
Just an idle thought on the matter ... would he be taking any 'cancer' drugs during the time in question and would they have been accounted for?
Aren't a lot/all of the testimonies against him affidavits? Why would you risk going to prison over something like that?
He's now been officially stripped of his titles and banned for life.
More information seems to be available from the news items appearing (Reuters source).
"A statement from the USADA read: "USADA announced today that Lance Armstrong has chosen not to move forward with the independent arbitration process and as a result has received a lifetime period of ineligibility and disqualification of all competitive results from August 1, 1998 through the present, as the result of his anti-doping rule violations stemming from his involvement in the United States Postal Service (USPS) Cycling Team Doping Conspiracy (USPS Conspiracy).
"Following the dismissal of Mr. Armstrong’s lawsuit on Monday, August 20, 2012, by the federal court in Austin, Texas, Mr. Armstrong had until midnight on Thursday, August 23, to contest the evidence against him in a full evidentiary hearing with neutral arbitrators as provided by US law.
"However, when given the opportunity to challenge the evidence against him, and with full knowledge of the consequences, Mr. Armstrong chose not to contest the fact that he engaged in doping violations from at least August 1, 1998 and participated in a conspiracy to cover up his actions.
"As a result of Mr. Armstrong’s decision, USADA is required under the applicable rules, including the World Anti-Doping Code under which he is accountable, to disqualify his competitive results and suspend him from all future competition."
USADA chief executive Travis T. Tygart commented: “Nobody wins when an athlete decides to cheat with dangerous performance-enhancing drugs, but clean athletes at every level expect those of us here on their behalf, to pursue the truth to ensure the win-at-all-cost culture does not permanently overtake fair, honest competition.
“Any time we have overwhelming proof of doping, our mandate is to initiate the case through the process and see it to conclusion as was done in this case.”"
More information seems to be available from the news items appearing (Reuters source).
"A statement from the USADA read: "USADA announced today that Lance Armstrong has chosen not to move forward with the independent arbitration process and as a result has received a lifetime period of ineligibility and disqualification of all competitive results from August 1, 1998 through the present, as the result of his anti-doping rule violations stemming from his involvement in the United States Postal Service (USPS) Cycling Team Doping Conspiracy (USPS Conspiracy).
"Following the dismissal of Mr. Armstrong’s lawsuit on Monday, August 20, 2012, by the federal court in Austin, Texas, Mr. Armstrong had until midnight on Thursday, August 23, to contest the evidence against him in a full evidentiary hearing with neutral arbitrators as provided by US law.
"However, when given the opportunity to challenge the evidence against him, and with full knowledge of the consequences, Mr. Armstrong chose not to contest the fact that he engaged in doping violations from at least August 1, 1998 and participated in a conspiracy to cover up his actions.
"As a result of Mr. Armstrong’s decision, USADA is required under the applicable rules, including the World Anti-Doping Code under which he is accountable, to disqualify his competitive results and suspend him from all future competition."
USADA chief executive Travis T. Tygart commented: “Nobody wins when an athlete decides to cheat with dangerous performance-enhancing drugs, but clean athletes at every level expect those of us here on their behalf, to pursue the truth to ensure the win-at-all-cost culture does not permanently overtake fair, honest competition.
“Any time we have overwhelming proof of doping, our mandate is to initiate the case through the process and see it to conclusion as was done in this case.”"
"However, when given the opportunity to challenge the evidence against him, and with full knowledge of the consequences, Mr. Armstrong chose not to contest the fact that he engaged in doping violations from at least August 1, 1998 and participated in a conspiracy to cover up his actions.''
Be interested to learn how exactly this ''conspiracy to cover up his actions'' was carried out. If they had damning evidence that he had indeed cheated then how exactly could he cover up his actions?
As for these 10 people who have apparently testified against him, can their accounts be proven in anyway and did any of them have any vested interest in seeing Armstrong stripped of his titles?
Be interested to learn how exactly this ''conspiracy to cover up his actions'' was carried out. If they had damning evidence that he had indeed cheated then how exactly could he cover up his actions?
As for these 10 people who have apparently testified against him, can their accounts be proven in anyway and did any of them have any vested interest in seeing Armstrong stripped of his titles?
Well, I'm glad they're doing it now, and not 14 years ago when it would have been more beneficial to the sport...
I've always believed he was a cheat. You can't go through the kind of physical battery chemotherapy puts you through and then come back stronger than you were before, certainly not stronger than fully-fit healthy athletes, it simply does not happen.
DL wrote:
Just an idle thought on the matter ... would he be taking any 'cancer' drugs during the time in question and would they have been accounted for?
He would have been on a steroid treatment for the duration of his treatment and, I imagine, would have been banned from competing while it was still in his system. So about 6 months after he was cleared.
Just an idle thought on the matter ... would he be taking any 'cancer' drugs during the time in question and would they have been accounted for?
He would have been on a steroid treatment for the duration of his treatment and, I imagine, would have been banned from competing while it was still in his system. So about 6 months after he was cleared.
Warhunt wrote:
Wow, cynical much? Usain Bolt must be on drugs
Interesting. There are actually big question marks over Jamaican sprinters. Their athletics board doesn't test until the big events, which means all their athletes can build up their physiques with muscle stimulants during the quiet months when they're not being tested, which are then not used during the season so that they're undetectable. Strange how Jamaican sprinting suddenly came out of nowhere to dominate in the last 6 years, isn't it?
Wow, cynical much? Usain Bolt must be on drugs
Interesting. There are actually big question marks over Jamaican sprinters. Their athletics board doesn't test until the big events, which means all their athletes can build up their physiques with muscle stimulants during the quiet months when they're not being tested, which are then not used during the season so that they're undetectable. Strange how Jamaican sprinting suddenly came out of nowhere to dominate in the last 6 years, isn't it?
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