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Now there’s a provocative title to catch your attention!
Does anyone remember those great Nintendo flops of old? The Virtual Boy- supposedly bringing 3D headsets home for the first time. Instead it was a headache inducing, monochromic, fuzzy system that needed to be re-tuned every half an hour and sported no more than half a dozen games.
Then there was the gallant 64DD- an add-on to the N64 that promised so much. It would let you go online, get extras for games and even make your own characters. Instead it was a one-trick-pony that supported a lacklustre list of games, had a very muted Japan-only launch and was only online-enabled for a short few months.
Finally, Project Reality- the CD based games system to replace the SNES. Before the unit was even finished Nintendo’s partners, Sony, quit, the company that was to make the chips for the consoles was changed, and Nintendo had to go back to the drawing board with a cart based console.
See the pattern? Every time Nintendo have tried to release a piece of kit that is ahead of its time (in this case VR headsets and online consoles), it tends to be poorly realised, and as a result the unit flops.
So, it comes as no surprise that Nintendo’s current approach to future gaming trends is very apprehensive…
The Gamecube is the only of the current generation of console not to have online plans firmly set. Meanwhile the opposition have modems, online games and gaming network plans almost ready to be implemented.
I doubt that this will be a huge problem for the console- it has the support to succeed in gaining back ground lost to Sony 6 years ago. However, it does worry you about the Nintendo’s future commitments. Will they continue to stay one step behind the pack when it comes to gaming advances- perpetually releasing their consoles last and with less “extras” than the rest?
Worryingly, my gut feeling to that is “yes”. At the moment this isn’t a big problem- the GC undercuts the price of the competition and aims at a different audience- young gamers and hardcore fans. But what happens if, in 5 years time, Sony too begin to market young gamers? What happens if the Nintendo console comes out so late that the price of the other consoles has dropped enough to cast doubt on which box to buy the kids? Then Nintendo would certainly be in trouble.
Ok, so maybe I’m being a bit melodramatic. Nintendo certainly aren’t going out of business any time soon. However, to realise its potential the company really must learn that the “wait and see” approach doesn’t always work- fate favours the bold.
Sonic
Does anyone remember those great Nintendo flops of old? The Virtual Boy- supposedly bringing 3D headsets home for the first time. Instead it was a headache inducing, monochromic, fuzzy system that needed to be re-tuned every half an hour and sported no more than half a dozen games.
Then there was the gallant 64DD- an add-on to the N64 that promised so much. It would let you go online, get extras for games and even make your own characters. Instead it was a one-trick-pony that supported a lacklustre list of games, had a very muted Japan-only launch and was only online-enabled for a short few months.
Finally, Project Reality- the CD based games system to replace the SNES. Before the unit was even finished Nintendo’s partners, Sony, quit, the company that was to make the chips for the consoles was changed, and Nintendo had to go back to the drawing board with a cart based console.
See the pattern? Every time Nintendo have tried to release a piece of kit that is ahead of its time (in this case VR headsets and online consoles), it tends to be poorly realised, and as a result the unit flops.
So, it comes as no surprise that Nintendo’s current approach to future gaming trends is very apprehensive…
The Gamecube is the only of the current generation of console not to have online plans firmly set. Meanwhile the opposition have modems, online games and gaming network plans almost ready to be implemented.
I doubt that this will be a huge problem for the console- it has the support to succeed in gaining back ground lost to Sony 6 years ago. However, it does worry you about the Nintendo’s future commitments. Will they continue to stay one step behind the pack when it comes to gaming advances- perpetually releasing their consoles last and with less “extras” than the rest?
Worryingly, my gut feeling to that is “yes”. At the moment this isn’t a big problem- the GC undercuts the price of the competition and aims at a different audience- young gamers and hardcore fans. But what happens if, in 5 years time, Sony too begin to market young gamers? What happens if the Nintendo console comes out so late that the price of the other consoles has dropped enough to cast doubt on which box to buy the kids? Then Nintendo would certainly be in trouble.
Ok, so maybe I’m being a bit melodramatic. Nintendo certainly aren’t going out of business any time soon. However, to realise its potential the company really must learn that the “wait and see” approach doesn’t always work- fate favours the bold.
Sonic
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Sorry Davey, I meant to say "you forget one point" not "you remember one point"... now it makes sense!
Sonic
Sonic
Davey, stop talking spin. Yes the GC loads data from the optical disc faster than the other two consoles, but you remmeber one important point.
The Xbox will stream games through the HDD- so the disc data will be put onto the HDD well before it is needed, and then taken from there. Loading times from the Hard Drive are hundreds of times faster than from an optical disc, so the Xbox potentially has far less loading times.
So stop quoting all this jargon!
Strafex, I don't think you get my point.
Nintendo's 2 biggest markets are hardore gamers, who are few in number but buy loads of games, and "family gamers" (as Miyamoto calls them) who are basically all ages, but generally younger than the demographics of other consoles. You need only read insustry mags and reports to see this. Oh, and Miyamoto hgas also sighten female gamers as a new market too.
Anyway, although the Nintendo market is young, it doesn't mean Nintendo games are "kiddy". If anything, they're the oposite- thy're made to be universally playable by anyone.
Sonic
The Xbox will stream games through the HDD- so the disc data will be put onto the HDD well before it is needed, and then taken from there. Loading times from the Hard Drive are hundreds of times faster than from an optical disc, so the Xbox potentially has far less loading times.
So stop quoting all this jargon!
Strafex, I don't think you get my point.
Nintendo's 2 biggest markets are hardore gamers, who are few in number but buy loads of games, and "family gamers" (as Miyamoto calls them) who are basically all ages, but generally younger than the demographics of other consoles. You need only read insustry mags and reports to see this. Oh, and Miyamoto hgas also sighten female gamers as a new market too.
Anyway, although the Nintendo market is young, it doesn't mean Nintendo games are "kiddy". If anything, they're the oposite- thy're made to be universally playable by anyone.
Sonic
Great post... er, posts, Strafex
the cube has extremely fast loading times in comparison to the other two consoles , now thats not an opinion thats solid fact.
i will clarify that when i say fasting loading times i dont mean greater access times because it actually has a slower access rate than the other two but what it does it does faster. This is likely due to the small size of the disk
and the laser having to travel less far in order to access different tracks. i for one am happy that they didnt make it a full size dvd disk because, the load times are reminiscent of the days of console gaming and load times has been my pet peeve of every disk based console to date...
but not anymore
p.s i have a dvd player so im sorted
maybe this thread should have been calles "cowardly approach in japan" in light of certain issues raised hear about the japs and dvd!
i will clarify that when i say fasting loading times i dont mean greater access times because it actually has a slower access rate than the other two but what it does it does faster. This is likely due to the small size of the disk
and the laser having to travel less far in order to access different tracks. i for one am happy that they didnt make it a full size dvd disk because, the load times are reminiscent of the days of console gaming and load times has been my pet peeve of every disk based console to date...
but not anymore
p.s i have a dvd player so im sorted
maybe this thread should have been calles "cowardly approach in japan" in light of certain issues raised hear about the japs and dvd!
And more to the subject, Nintendo specialise in games design and software. They get their hardware through business deals.
Like you said, most attempts to do something new in the past have messed up, so now they're waiting for others to make the first move.
They don't want to spend a fortune pioneering into online gaming - alien territory, and make a mess of it.
Let MS (who have been working online gaming (msn gaming zone) for a long time now) pioneer and get a working model, so Nintendo get the best idea how to do it.
Also, because they expect relatively low sales compared to the other giants, it's even more important that they go easy when risking big projects in area's they've not been before.
I think that if they were market leaders then they'd be more inclined to take risks of this sort, but they're obviously not in the right position at this moment in time.
Like you said, most attempts to do something new in the past have messed up, so now they're waiting for others to make the first move.
They don't want to spend a fortune pioneering into online gaming - alien territory, and make a mess of it.
Let MS (who have been working online gaming (msn gaming zone) for a long time now) pioneer and get a working model, so Nintendo get the best idea how to do it.
Also, because they expect relatively low sales compared to the other giants, it's even more important that they go easy when risking big projects in area's they've not been before.
I think that if they were market leaders then they'd be more inclined to take risks of this sort, but they're obviously not in the right position at this moment in time.
Nintendo aren't aimed at kids.
They simply aim at gamers without excluding kids with red certificates while Sony and Microsoft go for the "we're too mature for cute graphics" image.
If Nintendo were aimed at kids, their games would be easier and more simplistic. As it is, Nintendo's games often have more depth and challenge than the "adult" selection of MGS2 and DMC.
Like you say, the DVD was an important part in Japan, but wasn't it better of Nintendo to give the gamers a choice rather than FORCE them to pay the extra £100?
I also think that you over estimate Sony's grip on the market.
They wouldn't simply go:
"That's a nice kiddies market. We'll take that!"
They'd have to take it through marketing with adverts and promotions for games that aren't adult exclusive.
That is what Nintendo did with Zelda and Mario and because these games weren't red certificate "adults only" games, Nintendo looked kiddie compared to the more violent likes of Resident Evil, and serious games like Tekken and Ridge Racer.
I think that Sony do have a lot more on the kids market than people tend to think (more kids own Playstations than N64's and these kids buy the hype more easily).
Loads of Sony's "mature" audience also own Nintendo consoles.
All this stereotyping about Nintendo aiming a kids came straight from Mario and Pokémon's cutesy graphics.
Infact, it's more often the kiddies who go for the red certificate games to feel "all grown up"...
They simply aim at gamers without excluding kids with red certificates while Sony and Microsoft go for the "we're too mature for cute graphics" image.
If Nintendo were aimed at kids, their games would be easier and more simplistic. As it is, Nintendo's games often have more depth and challenge than the "adult" selection of MGS2 and DMC.
Like you say, the DVD was an important part in Japan, but wasn't it better of Nintendo to give the gamers a choice rather than FORCE them to pay the extra £100?
I also think that you over estimate Sony's grip on the market.
They wouldn't simply go:
"That's a nice kiddies market. We'll take that!"
They'd have to take it through marketing with adverts and promotions for games that aren't adult exclusive.
That is what Nintendo did with Zelda and Mario and because these games weren't red certificate "adults only" games, Nintendo looked kiddie compared to the more violent likes of Resident Evil, and serious games like Tekken and Ridge Racer.
I think that Sony do have a lot more on the kids market than people tend to think (more kids own Playstations than N64's and these kids buy the hype more easily).
Loads of Sony's "mature" audience also own Nintendo consoles.
All this stereotyping about Nintendo aiming a kids came straight from Mario and Pokémon's cutesy graphics.
Infact, it's more often the kiddies who go for the red certificate games to feel "all grown up"...
DrDragon, if I ever implied that I thought DVD extra on consoles were a waste of money then I'nm sorry... because I don't. Let me give you examples of why:
* The GC's Japanese launch was pretty disappointing. But when the Qcube was launched a month or 2 later it sold out. The reason? Well, most Japanese people DO NOT have DVDs because they are still hugely expensive!
* Months after the PS2 launched, games sales were BELOW console sales. Reason: DVD players were v.v.v. high in price so people bough the console a a DVD player. In the short term Sony lost money, but in the long run they have a bigger user base.
Why else do you think consoles would have DVDs in.
Of course, it's not such a bad thing that Ninty don't have the DVD player as standard. Their market tend to be younger gamers, and by lowering the price of the console it really opens it to the young market far more.
Sonic
* The GC's Japanese launch was pretty disappointing. But when the Qcube was launched a month or 2 later it sold out. The reason? Well, most Japanese people DO NOT have DVDs because they are still hugely expensive!
* Months after the PS2 launched, games sales were BELOW console sales. Reason: DVD players were v.v.v. high in price so people bough the console a a DVD player. In the short term Sony lost money, but in the long run they have a bigger user base.
Why else do you think consoles would have DVDs in.
Of course, it's not such a bad thing that Ninty don't have the DVD player as standard. Their market tend to be younger gamers, and by lowering the price of the console it really opens it to the young market far more.
Sonic
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Indian guy hasn't got to this one yet i see...
wow !! people notice when i dont post ..... it makes me feel special ;-)
also drdragon , you wanted me to post on your views , and i totally agree with you .. well said. apart from the fact that people who buy an xbox are going to already own a dvd player and other stuff , because , a few of my friends are buying an xbox and they dont have the dvd and other stuff , and also , i was in toys r us , and there was a little girl in front of me playing the xbox , and the salesman , was talking a load of bollokcs about how good it was , etc , so he could sell one , this is an 8 year old girl were talking about here ! why would she want a xbox ???
i think ive gone a bit off the subject here so i'll stop ......... now.
> Indian guy hasn't got to this one yet i see...
wow !! people notice when i dont post ..... it makes me feel special ;-)
also drdragon , you wanted me to post on your views , and i totally agree with you .. well said. apart from the fact that people who buy an xbox are going to already own a dvd player and other stuff , because , a few of my friends are buying an xbox and they dont have the dvd and other stuff , and also , i was in toys r us , and there was a little girl in front of me playing the xbox , and the salesman , was talking a load of bollokcs about how good it was , etc , so he could sell one , this is an 8 year old girl were talking about here ! why would she want a xbox ???
i think ive gone a bit off the subject here so i'll stop ......... now.
1. Extras - DVD for a start...
2.
> Hardrive eh? well saves on memory cards... allows "game glitches" to
> be sorted out - patches, want a third reason? games like CHAMPIONSHIP MANAGER -
> best PC game ever gets a console release...
3. Internet? a HELL OF A LOT of
> gamers are interested... most FPS are very fun online, what about a 10 player
> Perfect Dark Zero deathmatch, fun eh?
4. DVD - wrong again, a lot of people i
> know who have PS2 also use it as a DVD player - not everyone is made of money,
> if you dont have a DVD already and a PS2 gives you goods from both worlds, it is
> an incentive... Further more, standard DVDs hold a hell of a lot more
> information than these mini-style-DVDs, more info = better graphics and/or
> longer game...
i too would be interested if YOU had anymore rubbish to
> spout...
My turn...
1: DVDs, d'uh.
2. Saves on memory cards yes, but means you cannot transport your saves to somebody else's XBox, which is one of the good things about them.
It does not sort out glitches, the HDD has nothing to do with it.
Games like CM you may as well play on a PC if you have one, so saying its good the XBox is going to get PC ports is invalid as the PC has better controls for that sort of game anyway.
3. The internet, at least in the UK, is subject to TONNES of lagging, at per minute fees? Go away. BTW the GC internet is being developed and will be out soon, so you can't really get it for that.
4. Sonicrav is right, the sort of people who spend £300 are also likely to be those already with PS2/ DVD PC/ Evternal DVD/Q etc, so the DVD option is just a waste of money for those already with DVD players. Also, mini DVDs contain very, very comforytably enough space for even the very largest XBox game, so space is not an issue.
Don't accuse people of speaking rubbish when thy're not, OK?
2.
> Hardrive eh? well saves on memory cards... allows "game glitches" to
> be sorted out - patches, want a third reason? games like CHAMPIONSHIP MANAGER -
> best PC game ever gets a console release...
3. Internet? a HELL OF A LOT of
> gamers are interested... most FPS are very fun online, what about a 10 player
> Perfect Dark Zero deathmatch, fun eh?
4. DVD - wrong again, a lot of people i
> know who have PS2 also use it as a DVD player - not everyone is made of money,
> if you dont have a DVD already and a PS2 gives you goods from both worlds, it is
> an incentive... Further more, standard DVDs hold a hell of a lot more
> information than these mini-style-DVDs, more info = better graphics and/or
> longer game...
i too would be interested if YOU had anymore rubbish to
> spout...
My turn...
1: DVDs, d'uh.
2. Saves on memory cards yes, but means you cannot transport your saves to somebody else's XBox, which is one of the good things about them.
It does not sort out glitches, the HDD has nothing to do with it.
Games like CM you may as well play on a PC if you have one, so saying its good the XBox is going to get PC ports is invalid as the PC has better controls for that sort of game anyway.
3. The internet, at least in the UK, is subject to TONNES of lagging, at per minute fees? Go away. BTW the GC internet is being developed and will be out soon, so you can't really get it for that.
4. Sonicrav is right, the sort of people who spend £300 are also likely to be those already with PS2/ DVD PC/ Evternal DVD/Q etc, so the DVD option is just a waste of money for those already with DVD players. Also, mini DVDs contain very, very comforytably enough space for even the very largest XBox game, so space is not an issue.
Don't accuse people of speaking rubbish when thy're not, OK?
Cel shaded Zelda - that is definetly VERY brave!
The argument over 'kiddie' games was started by PS owners who had nothing better to do than try to degrade the N64s superior games. There are thousands (literaly) of 'kiddie' games on the PSX. Marios a cartoon? So what is Spyro? A lame wannabe platformer yep, but also a 'cartoon'!
The argument over 'kiddie' games was started by PS owners who had nothing better to do than try to degrade the N64s superior games. There are thousands (literaly) of 'kiddie' games on the PSX. Marios a cartoon? So what is Spyro? A lame wannabe platformer yep, but also a 'cartoon'!
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