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Fri 27/12/02 at 18:31
Regular
Posts: 787
So you’re sat there watching Hound of the Baskervilles on BBC1, very merry and full of sherry, and Holmes is just about to explain it all whilst pacing around the villainous murderer. So, you sit back, relax, and…what’s this? You hear a beep, and up on your TV comes the message: LOCKED! Then, undeterred, you pop American Pie into the DVD player, and naturally go to scene selection. However, when you try and play the bit where Shannon Elizabeth gets nekkid, you are informed that you can only watch this scene after you watch the others in ‘widescreen’ mode. Disgusted, you storm out and go to the cinema, and buy two tickets to Lord of the Rings…then, just before the battle at Helms Deep, a steward tells you that you can’t see the end until you’ve bought all the members of the audience some popcorn in under two minutes. Naturally, and quite rightly, you’d be outraged! You’ve paid your TV license fee, you bought the DVD, you bought the ticket…so why would you be deprived of getting some of what you’ve paid for?

Fast forward to about a week ago. A mate came round my house and we were on the PS2. I popped in TimeSplitters 2, and as I set up the game my friend as ‘Monkey Assist’. As you may or may not know, this mode sees each player have a little monkey helper by their side at all times, a team-mate if you will, ready to pop a cap in anyone’s skull. Of course it looked like fun, so he asked me to pick it…alas, I haven’t beheaded the undead enough, or thrown enough bricks through windows to unlock this snazzy feature. Then at the character select screen, there’s a huge black space where there are hidden characters, tonnes of them. Now look at the past few months, eh? GTA: Vice City, Smackdown 4, Tony Hawk’s 4 and The Getaway to name but a few titles released and snapped up by me. I don’t have time to complete every tiny section of the extra bonus magical challenges to unlock something. I’m the customer, I’ve paid my money and I want to play the game: not an unreasonable request, surely. So why hide half of it away?!

I’m no gaming god. I’d be hard pushed to qualify as a gaming choir-boy. So when I got GTA3, I was slightly miffed when I got stuck on a mission, the last I believe, on the second island. I just couldn’t do it. It took me about a week to manage to beat the time limit to get to some boat, and then the dreadful handling meant I couldn’t get from A to B fast enough. Disgusted, frustrated, dishevelled and tired I left the game alone. I’ve never been on the third island in GTA3, despite having given Rockstar about £40 of my own hard earned dosh. Luckily I’m faring better on Vice City, I’m up to Death Row…but there’s still lots to do in the game. And here’s where it gets complicated.

I dislike the notion of being forced to do something in order to get something unrelated. For instance, challenges in TS2 and a multiplayer mode, or missions in GTA3 and a new island to walk around in. Vice City was originally going to have everything unlocked at the start, and I think it would have been much more welcoming. Even without the missions you’d have a huge world to potter about in…but then there are the side-missions. Subquests, if you will. Be a pizza boy, a police officer, a taxi driver. There’s the numerous stunt jumps to find and perform, rampages, hidden extras to unlock like extra health, infinite sprint or the ‘crazy jump’. These aren’t really that important, whereas having a whole extra mode in multiplayer, or whole new environment, is. There are other things in Vice City, little easter eggs, hidden messages (remember 3’s “You weren’t supposed to be able to get here you know”?) that are nice to find, rewarding to come across, but not infuriating. They’re not there to tick off on a checklist, they’re not holding you back from something you should have been able to see or do or use or play from the start,

The cheats in TimeSplitters 2 I have no problem with. Look at GoldenEye, and Halo: they gave you everything you’d ever NEED from the start…and quite right too. You’ve bought the game, you shouldn’t have to give blood sweat and tears to unlock everything to get the ‘full version’. I’d be miffed if when I got The Office: Series 1 it only had some of the episodes there – I wanted to have all of it. It’s a challenge sometimes, a bit of an incentive, but when it’s something as unrealistic as completing everything with everyone, like in Tony Hawk’s 3, do you really see someone buying the game and doing one thing over again a dozen times with different skaters when they can just as easily tap in a cheat?

This could be my subconscious whining because it’s rubbish at games, but then it could be that more people feel this way. Do you? Were you miffed when you got a game and couldn’t play everything on it? Do you relish the challenge? Did you click on this topic by mistake? Well please, reply.

Thanks for reading.

-El Blokey
Sat 28/12/02 at 19:36
Regular
Posts: 11,875
I don't like modes being locked, it's rubbish.

I hate the challenges in Timesplitters 2 and frankly have no desire to ever play them again, which means I will never get some of the multi-player modes.

Cheats, new levels, new characters and new weapons are the only things that should be locked.
Sat 28/12/02 at 19:00
Regular
"+34 Intellect"
Posts: 21,334
El Blokey wrote:
> No, sorry but that last bit is wrong. If you DO want monkey assist,
> what if you don't have enough time to do all those challenges? What if
> you have to wait till the weekend to complete maybe two? It would take
> ages. And anyway, when you have something as cool as Monkey Assist,
> why deprive the player where you think nothing of leaving in
> deathmatch and capture the flag...heck, why not lock away the whole
> multiplayer option!

If you do not have the time to unlock monkey assist then find some. Monkey assist is not a traditional multiplayer option, and should therefore be locked to encourage play.

Deathmatch and capture the flag are standard multiplayer modes, virus, monkey assist and assault are all fresher modes of play. When i first seen that they were locked away i thought nothing of it. I just dived straight into the game to unlock them.
Sat 28/12/02 at 10:51
Regular
"no longer El Blokey"
Posts: 4,471
½pint wrote:
> Challenges are good, because if there was no challenge or no
> incentive, what would be the point in actually completing a game after
> it gets boring.

In my view, if a game is boring enough no incentive will make you play it.

> Use cheats to unlock the special modes, but don't let
> it ruin the game for everybody else.

The point is, paying even more for an action replay when you've already shelled out for a game which restricts you to what you can and can't do out of the box is ridiculous.
Sat 28/12/02 at 10:50
Regular
"no longer El Blokey"
Posts: 4,471
cookie monster wrote:
> If I had the ability to see all of the games content before even
> pressing the fire button I would be overwhelmingly disappointed. What
> would be the real point in playing the game, what would that
> achieve?

I'm not saying have the whole game unlocked. I'm saying have the important things ready so you don't have to trudge through things. GoldenEye gave you all the multiplayer options, and had cheats to unlock. That's the way it should be, with the extras BEING extras, not things that everyone should have from the off.

> Verily it can become tiresome to take the time to unlock all features
> of a game, particularly in games such as Timesplitters 2. Where the
> unlockable extras are many, and the challenge level is high. But it
> gives a feeling of accomplishment to know you have unlocked more
> characters, or have more cheats available than your friend or
> cousin.

Yes, as does completing a particularly tricky mission. But when you have reached a point where you are tired of the game or when you find another title to play, if and when you return wanting to play on this level in multiplayer or be that character you will be dissapointed.

> Goldeneye was no exception to this rule. Perhaps it had slipped your
> mind, but there is only one playable level for multiplayer when you
> start a fresh game file. And the cheats system was very intelligent,
> it encourages gamers to become masters of the game, how many people
> unlocked the invincibility cheat? Exactly, it was rock hard. But when
> I got that cheat I felt like the greatest gamer in the world. How many
> other games have made me feel like that? It is an engine that drives
> you to play the game to its fullest, it should be revered, not
> scorned.

The whole point is I am celebrating GoldenEye as a shining example, one which has challenging yet realistic goals set (unlike Tony Hawk's).

> All to often I have seen posts on these forums slating a games quality
> because it only lasted the best part of 10 hours. And rightly so,
> anything that costs £40 should be a source of entertainment for
> many nights. There are only 3 ways to really add longevity to a game:
> Make it massive, Make it hard or introduce unlockable extras.

There is a line I have tried to draw in the topic that you seem to have missed between locking extras, and locking bits of the game. For example, in Vice City getting armour at your hideout for getting x amount of hidden packages is an extra. The second island is part of the game.

> Since the industry seems to be aiming titles at the casual gamer the
> difficulty level is out of the question, gamers will be frustrated if
> they cant see the end sequence because the end boss seems
> invincible.

True, but there are invariably difficulty levels for the more seasoned gamer, and every once in a while something like Maximo pops up.

> The size of the game is also questionable as gamers have varying
> amounts of time to which they can dedicate to games. Whilst some may
> have no problems slogging through a 60 hour Zelda game, it may be too
> tiring for the gamer on the casual scale.

Again, there are still many lengthy titles, such as Final Fantasy.

> Therefore unlockables are an invaluable aid. They will not inhibit the
> enjoyment of the main game, but will instead add to the entertainment
> when the main quest is finished. Unlockables are not an integral part
> of the experience, and can be unlocked at leisure, which suits the
> gamer regardless of how much time he has available.

No, sorry but that last bit is wrong. If you DO want monkey assist, what if you don't have enough time to do all those challenges? What if you have to wait till the weekend to complete maybe two? It would take ages. And anyway, when you have something as cool as Monkey Assist, why deprive the player where you think nothing of leaving in deathmatch and capture the flag...heck, why not lock away the whole multiplayer option!
Fri 27/12/02 at 21:42
Regular
"¬_¬"
Posts: 3,110
Buy an action replay if you can't play games; its what many others do. Challenges are good, because if there was no challenge or no incentive, what would be the point in actually completing a game after it gets boring. Use cheats to unlock the special modes, but don't let it ruin the game for everybody else.
Fri 27/12/02 at 20:32
Regular
"+34 Intellect"
Posts: 21,334
If this is indeed your true opinion then I think you should give up gaming and watch films, or get better at the games. The fact that the game hides away some of its content to be unlocked as an accomplishment is to be celebrated, not criticised.

If I had the ability to see all of the games content before even pressing the fire button I would be overwhelmingly disappointed. What would be the real point in playing the game, what would that achieve?

Verily it can become tiresome to take the time to unlock all features of a game, particularly in games such as Timesplitters 2. Where the unlockable extras are many, and the challenge level is high. But it gives a feeling of accomplishment to know you have unlocked more characters, or have more cheats available than your friend or cousin.

Goldeneye was no exception to this rule. Perhaps it had slipped your mind, but there is only one playable level for multiplayer when you start a fresh game file. And the cheats system was very intelligent, it encourages gamers to become masters of the game, how many people unlocked the invincibility cheat? Exactly, it was rock hard. But when I got that cheat I felt like the greatest gamer in the world. How many other games have made me feel like that? It is an engine that drives you to play the game to its fullest, it should be revered, not scorned.

All to often I have seen posts on these forums slating a games quality because it only lasted the best part of 10 hours. And rightly so, anything that costs £40 should be a source of entertainment for many nights. There are only 3 ways to really add longevity to a game: Make it massive, Make it hard or introduce unlockable extras.

Since the industry seems to be aiming titles at the casual gamer the difficulty level is out of the question, gamers will be frustrated if they cant see the end sequence because the end boss seems invincible.

The size of the game is also questionable as gamers have varying amounts of time to which they can dedicate to games. Whilst some may have no problems slogging through a 60 hour Zelda game, it may be too tiring for the gamer on the casual scale.

Therefore unlockables are an invaluable aid. They will not inhibit the enjoyment of the main game, but will instead add to the entertainment when the main quest is finished. Unlockables are not an integral part of the experience, and can be unlocked at leisure, which suits the gamer regardless of how much time he has available.

I think anything that adds a bit of longevity but doesnt draw out the game until it is wraith-like is an invaluable asset, especially since the market seems to be saturated with games that offer little challenge or excitement.

Oh, and why exactly would you buy two tickets when you only need one?
Fri 27/12/02 at 19:11
"period drama"
Posts: 19,792
Its a bit of an issue, this.
On the one hand you want to experience the game to the full straight away but on the other secrets and unlokcables givce the game a longer life for the determined punter.

'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to games. 100% is always my target which means I WILL do any challenge that stands in my way however long it takes. But, then again, if I do give up I'll still want to get the whole experience out of the game - not have things shut off to me becasue if a redculously impossible task i know I'll never do.

So, a fully open game from the start with a lot of challenges to keep it going would be good for me. Maybe some rewards for the perfectionist like me, like opening cheats which won't take the experience away from those who won't do it.
Like Vice City, it's free and accesable, but rewards come to the more persisten gamer for completing the extra challenges like extra vehicles, weapons, money and when the 100% comes a lot more health and armour.

Finding the balance is the key, to appeal to every kind of gamer.
Its hard to get right - like getting all the dog tags on European Extream (MGS2) which is rediculasly impossible with little rewards. Or you could get it so anyone can complete 100% without any skill, or effort which would really annoy me. I like to be 'the one' who got 100%.
Fri 27/12/02 at 18:31
Regular
"no longer El Blokey"
Posts: 4,471
So you’re sat there watching Hound of the Baskervilles on BBC1, very merry and full of sherry, and Holmes is just about to explain it all whilst pacing around the villainous murderer. So, you sit back, relax, and…what’s this? You hear a beep, and up on your TV comes the message: LOCKED! Then, undeterred, you pop American Pie into the DVD player, and naturally go to scene selection. However, when you try and play the bit where Shannon Elizabeth gets nekkid, you are informed that you can only watch this scene after you watch the others in ‘widescreen’ mode. Disgusted, you storm out and go to the cinema, and buy two tickets to Lord of the Rings…then, just before the battle at Helms Deep, a steward tells you that you can’t see the end until you’ve bought all the members of the audience some popcorn in under two minutes. Naturally, and quite rightly, you’d be outraged! You’ve paid your TV license fee, you bought the DVD, you bought the ticket…so why would you be deprived of getting some of what you’ve paid for?

Fast forward to about a week ago. A mate came round my house and we were on the PS2. I popped in TimeSplitters 2, and as I set up the game my friend as ‘Monkey Assist’. As you may or may not know, this mode sees each player have a little monkey helper by their side at all times, a team-mate if you will, ready to pop a cap in anyone’s skull. Of course it looked like fun, so he asked me to pick it…alas, I haven’t beheaded the undead enough, or thrown enough bricks through windows to unlock this snazzy feature. Then at the character select screen, there’s a huge black space where there are hidden characters, tonnes of them. Now look at the past few months, eh? GTA: Vice City, Smackdown 4, Tony Hawk’s 4 and The Getaway to name but a few titles released and snapped up by me. I don’t have time to complete every tiny section of the extra bonus magical challenges to unlock something. I’m the customer, I’ve paid my money and I want to play the game: not an unreasonable request, surely. So why hide half of it away?!

I’m no gaming god. I’d be hard pushed to qualify as a gaming choir-boy. So when I got GTA3, I was slightly miffed when I got stuck on a mission, the last I believe, on the second island. I just couldn’t do it. It took me about a week to manage to beat the time limit to get to some boat, and then the dreadful handling meant I couldn’t get from A to B fast enough. Disgusted, frustrated, dishevelled and tired I left the game alone. I’ve never been on the third island in GTA3, despite having given Rockstar about £40 of my own hard earned dosh. Luckily I’m faring better on Vice City, I’m up to Death Row…but there’s still lots to do in the game. And here’s where it gets complicated.

I dislike the notion of being forced to do something in order to get something unrelated. For instance, challenges in TS2 and a multiplayer mode, or missions in GTA3 and a new island to walk around in. Vice City was originally going to have everything unlocked at the start, and I think it would have been much more welcoming. Even without the missions you’d have a huge world to potter about in…but then there are the side-missions. Subquests, if you will. Be a pizza boy, a police officer, a taxi driver. There’s the numerous stunt jumps to find and perform, rampages, hidden extras to unlock like extra health, infinite sprint or the ‘crazy jump’. These aren’t really that important, whereas having a whole extra mode in multiplayer, or whole new environment, is. There are other things in Vice City, little easter eggs, hidden messages (remember 3’s “You weren’t supposed to be able to get here you know”?) that are nice to find, rewarding to come across, but not infuriating. They’re not there to tick off on a checklist, they’re not holding you back from something you should have been able to see or do or use or play from the start,

The cheats in TimeSplitters 2 I have no problem with. Look at GoldenEye, and Halo: they gave you everything you’d ever NEED from the start…and quite right too. You’ve bought the game, you shouldn’t have to give blood sweat and tears to unlock everything to get the ‘full version’. I’d be miffed if when I got The Office: Series 1 it only had some of the episodes there – I wanted to have all of it. It’s a challenge sometimes, a bit of an incentive, but when it’s something as unrealistic as completing everything with everyone, like in Tony Hawk’s 3, do you really see someone buying the game and doing one thing over again a dozen times with different skaters when they can just as easily tap in a cheat?

This could be my subconscious whining because it’s rubbish at games, but then it could be that more people feel this way. Do you? Were you miffed when you got a game and couldn’t play everything on it? Do you relish the challenge? Did you click on this topic by mistake? Well please, reply.

Thanks for reading.

-El Blokey

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