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"A reality shock for us all"

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Wed 22/08/07 at 23:20
Regular
"Mooching around"
Posts: 4,248
from the tiresome debates over what to do with the forum.

Boy, 11, Dies After Pub Shooting

The incident happened shortly after 1930 BST in the car park of the Fir Tree public house on Fir Tree Drive.

A witness said the victim was with two other boys when someone rode past on a bicycle and fired three shots, one of which hit the boy.

He was rushed to Alder Hey Hospital but police later confirmed that he had died from his injuries.
Read more...

This is just awful, only a few days ago I was reading about another boy of 16 who died in Manchester from stab wounds. 11 years old though, it's just not right; he must've been starting secondary school this year, right?

I hate it, being 17 myself, it doesn't exactly make me feel safe when I'm out with my mates.

I know a lot of you here are older than me, how does this, quite recent and very much more publicised "gang killings" feel?
Thu 23/08/07 at 13:01
Regular
"Hellfire Stoker"
Posts: 10,534
I'm quite simply shocked at this; kids with guns, and really quite young kids. I'm not sure what the best solution would be, but a serious crackdown on the illegal arms trade, serious punishments for anyone involved and some proper community support initiatives would probably be worth considering...
Thu 23/08/07 at 11:32
Regular
"Picking a winner!"
Posts: 8,502
Was rather shocked to hear this on the news last night. Just something you wouldn't expect to happen.

Did anyone see the talk of making punishments tougher on these kids?
It was a joke - let judges prevent them from getting a driving licence when they reach 17. That'll be the same kind of 'kids' that are stealing cars and joyriding well before they reach the age of 17.
They do need to get tougher on them, but a lot tougher than just taking away their right to drive legally.
Thu 23/08/07 at 10:00
Moderator
"possibly impossible"
Posts: 24,985
FantasyMeister wrote:
> Alternatively, didn't Crimewatch show a reconstrution the other
> night of exactly the same type of shooting? (Except it was a
> guy in a car with a shotgun driving by).

That's the answer! Crimewatch causes crimes. Ban it now!
Thu 23/08/07 at 09:58
Regular
"Copyright: FM Inc."
Posts: 10,338
Alternatively, didn't Crimewatch show a reconstrution the other night of exactly the same type of shooting? (Except it was a guy in a car with a shotgun driving by).
Thu 23/08/07 at 09:57
Regular
"Copyright: FM Inc."
Posts: 10,338
Chaos wrote:
> A witness said the victim was with two other boys when someone
> rode past on a bicycle and fired three shots, one of which hit
> the boy.


Straight out of GTA: San Andreas, I bet the shooter played it.
Thu 23/08/07 at 09:23
Moderator
"possibly impossible"
Posts: 24,985
spoonbeast wrote:
> Something has gone horribly wrong here. Kids didn't use to do
> this. At least not so frequently. Damn it, maybe the police
> should be more heavy handed on these gangs. Maybe even declaring
> gang war on them and putting a harsh end to all of this.

It's partly the media covering these stories more frequently, there have always been incidents but the frequency and accuracy of the reporting has made the rise feel greater.

So, yes, there does seem to be a rise in violent crime among minors, but there are probably many causes. It certainly has nothing to do with the 'immigrants' and none of these child related killings have links to minority groups.

There are issues with illegal gangs which are related to people from other religions or countries, but these seem to be fewer than those at home and certainly only among the adults.

You can blame the rise in violent media, the dissolving of our country's moral backbone or the effect that the government enforces mothers going out to work and leaving strangers to look after their children, then having the cheek to complain about childhood crime.

This is one area where lack of religion was the cause for the violence. It's not the religion itself that is important though, but the fact that countries unified under one religion, however practiced, usually provide a better moral society as they have something to base their morals on. In the UK now morals have slipped further back. With nothing to set them in a framework, its hard to uphold them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should all suddenly turn religious, but in a secular society you need to find an alternative to religion which will bolster the messages taught by those religions. That obviously comes from parents, but the government has virtually made it impossible for parents to be at home with the children. Single mothers, too, are hit harder these days in a bid to send them out to work. Children will just not have the same level of respect for their grandparents, carers or creche than they will for their parents (even if it is sometimes a grudging respect) and that will normally lead to a lack of instilled virtues and respect for other authority figures later on.

Anyway, I guess we're quite lucky here in the west county. We still get the odd case of violent attacks, more often than not from people who were supposed to be in care, but I feel generally safe here. However, that said, I'd feel much safer in Spain.
Thu 23/08/07 at 08:58
Regular
"you've got a beard"
Posts: 7,442
11 though.

what can you even have done by 11 to warrant being killed?

it`s crazy and very sad :(
Thu 23/08/07 at 08:17
Regular
"eat toast!"
Posts: 1,466
Something has gone horribly wrong here. Kids didn't use to do this. At least not so frequently. Damn it, maybe the police should be more heavy handed on these gangs. Maybe even declaring gang war on them and putting a harsh end to all of this.
Thu 23/08/07 at 01:37
Regular
Posts: 23,216
Yeah, you can't help but be subjective really. But at least accepting some from of danger is surely better than accepting none at all.

But as that wonderful song says to words of some effect - "The real troubles in life are apt to be things that never crossed your worried mind, the kind that blindsides you on 4pm on some idle Tuesday"
Thu 23/08/07 at 01:29
Regular
"Mooching around"
Posts: 4,248
Well all I know of is what the news tells me, and you said that all it writes about is the bad... But then that would be a biased choice.

On what I know of the people I know, the good does outweigh the bad... But then I might have different values to good and bad comparred to others, so I'm back at square one.

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