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After playing the MGS2 demo yesterday, and the Rez demo repeatedly yesterday and today (see a post in Sony forum), I realised something terrible.
MGS2 will go down as being a classic. And in my view, it's not. Rez is a far superior game, but the casual gamer, the mass market, won't see it that way.
They'll see MGS2 on the shelf, and buy it and buy it until it's the worlds best selling game. Or something like that. Then someone will say, "Well, it must be a classic."
So what *makes* a classic? Some definitions of the word for you:
An artist, author, or work generally considered to be of the highest rank or excellence, especially one of enduring significance.
A work recognized as definitive in its field.
Belonging to the highest rank or class. Serving as the established model or standard.
Having lasting significance or worth; enduring.
So what does that mean then? What should a game rely on to become a proper classic?
Graphics? Nope. They get better with every new generation console, so if you go by that reasoning then all the early games are rubbish and todays are all classics.
Originality? Well, yes. To an extent. A lot of people will rate the original higher than the sequels. Be it in games or films. The original is always regarded as the best.
But then you could say that Quake wasn't original, Doom and Wolfenstein were both around before. Yet Quake is regarded as a genre defining title. The first to use 3D engine etc.
Sounds? Same as graphics really. You can't compare the beeps that came out of your telly when playing Mario 1 with the 3D surround sound we have now. Which is better? Does it matter? The sound was good enough for you back then, so why worry about it.
Maybe a "classic" is just a trend setting title? A title that takes that extra step in an existing genre? Like Quake, or Half Life.
Or maybe it's a title that succesfully manages to mix two existing genres, Deus Ex anyone?
Or is it just a game that you can keep coming back to, time and time again. In which case it's different for everyone, so is there much point in reading a review? Afterall, the reviewer will have different opinions to you.
Or, finally, maybe a classic is a game that will still be talked about fondly years after release. Mario Kart? Mario? Sonic? Tetris? Pong? Space Invaders? Asteroids?
All games that have been around for AGES, yet all games that are still mentioned on these very forums.
Or would your list be different? What makes a classic for you? Or is it just a word that's being used so much today that it has just become meaningless?
Thoughts?
MGS2 will go down as being a classic. And in my view, it's not. Rez is a far superior game, but the casual gamer, the mass market, won't see it that way.
They'll see MGS2 on the shelf, and buy it and buy it until it's the worlds best selling game. Or something like that. Then someone will say, "Well, it must be a classic."
So what *makes* a classic? Some definitions of the word for you:
An artist, author, or work generally considered to be of the highest rank or excellence, especially one of enduring significance.
A work recognized as definitive in its field.
Belonging to the highest rank or class. Serving as the established model or standard.
Having lasting significance or worth; enduring.
So what does that mean then? What should a game rely on to become a proper classic?
Graphics? Nope. They get better with every new generation console, so if you go by that reasoning then all the early games are rubbish and todays are all classics.
Originality? Well, yes. To an extent. A lot of people will rate the original higher than the sequels. Be it in games or films. The original is always regarded as the best.
But then you could say that Quake wasn't original, Doom and Wolfenstein were both around before. Yet Quake is regarded as a genre defining title. The first to use 3D engine etc.
Sounds? Same as graphics really. You can't compare the beeps that came out of your telly when playing Mario 1 with the 3D surround sound we have now. Which is better? Does it matter? The sound was good enough for you back then, so why worry about it.
Maybe a "classic" is just a trend setting title? A title that takes that extra step in an existing genre? Like Quake, or Half Life.
Or maybe it's a title that succesfully manages to mix two existing genres, Deus Ex anyone?
Or is it just a game that you can keep coming back to, time and time again. In which case it's different for everyone, so is there much point in reading a review? Afterall, the reviewer will have different opinions to you.
Or, finally, maybe a classic is a game that will still be talked about fondly years after release. Mario Kart? Mario? Sonic? Tetris? Pong? Space Invaders? Asteroids?
All games that have been around for AGES, yet all games that are still mentioned on these very forums.
Or would your list be different? What makes a classic for you? Or is it just a word that's being used so much today that it has just become meaningless?
Thoughts?
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Your Honour wrote:
>I'm the other way around. There's no way I'd spend £40 on
> MGS2, but I would spend it on Rez.
Have you seen the discussion between myself and meka dragon over in the PS2 forum, under the P2 demo topic name. We had a little talk about this very thing, and it mostly revolves around the depth of the two titles, feel free to add your point of view to it.
Also, well done on the GAD, and it doesn`t matter if you choose THPS3 or Rez because you are going to get some GADs for the GTA3 review in the PS2 forum.
However, in the unlikely event that *our* :-) GTA3 review doesn`t win, I`d go for THPS3, because its the kind of game you`ll still be playing in next week. :-)
>I'm the other way around. There's no way I'd spend £40 on
> MGS2, but I would spend it on Rez.
Have you seen the discussion between myself and meka dragon over in the PS2 forum, under the P2 demo topic name. We had a little talk about this very thing, and it mostly revolves around the depth of the two titles, feel free to add your point of view to it.
Also, well done on the GAD, and it doesn`t matter if you choose THPS3 or Rez because you are going to get some GADs for the GTA3 review in the PS2 forum.
However, in the unlikely event that *our* :-) GTA3 review doesn`t win, I`d go for THPS3, because its the kind of game you`ll still be playing in next week. :-)
It's going to be either Rez or Tonty Hawks 3.
Your Honour wrote:
> Cheers boys!
Now, what to choose....?
Baldurs Gate would be a good choice.
> Cheers boys!
Now, what to choose....?
Baldurs Gate would be a good choice.
Cheers boys!
Now, what to choose....?
Now, what to choose....?
Congrats on the win man!
I had a feeling you would win! :D
I had a feeling you would win! :D
Congratulations on the GAD win
YH, this didn't have anything to do with my little post in the Sony room on you your Rez topic did it? ;)
The only problem is that the reason I brought up classics is because I already wrote a topic on what makes classis in this very forum a week back... I'll pull it out for you.
It's called "What makes games good". It doesn't deal with the range of subjects you have (like graphics, sound, gameplay etc), instead it just focuses on 2 things I find more important- originality and simplicity. Take a look and tell me what you think!
Sonic
The only problem is that the reason I brought up classics is because I already wrote a topic on what makes classis in this very forum a week back... I'll pull it out for you.
It's called "What makes games good". It doesn't deal with the range of subjects you have (like graphics, sound, gameplay etc), instead it just focuses on 2 things I find more important- originality and simplicity. Take a look and tell me what you think!
Sonic
Resi, that's a very narrow-minded and uninformed opinion. Rez is an absolutely class game, and if it was a choice between MGS2 and Rez, Rez would win every time. The shooting is about 5% of what Rez is all about. You really, *really* have to play it to appreciate. I had read all the reviews, watched all the videos, but nothing prepared me for what it was really like.
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