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With the $350m+ departure of British developers Rareware from Nintendo to Microsoft came the believe amongst almost-all X-Box and PS2 fans alike that the 3rd competitor in the console war, Nintendo's GameCube, would be on the road to nowhere, and would soon be caught sinking-fast without the support of the Brits. who saved the N64 (sort of...) with the sheer brilliance of GoldenEye, Banjo-Kazooie, and the rest. Rumours began to arise that Nintendo were to go in-search of a new replacement for Rare with all that spare-cash, while Microsoft's fans couldn't believe their luck at the thought of having Perfect Dark Zero available exclusively to their console ONLY. The GameCube's future was beginning to look very bleak indeed with only so-much little information and news we had on it's future plans...
But with the new year we've heard some great news on some fantastic new -- and exclusive -- titles for 2003/04 that would simply knock the likes of Mario SunShine, Pikmin, and Super Smash Bros. off of our game-clustered shelves.
We then came to realise that we weren't going to need Rare after all with the likes of Metroid Prime and Zelda: The Wind Waker coming-our-way VERY SOON, with sequels for unique individuals like Pikmin and the currently un-released Animal Crossing currently in development - awell as a new Mario games in the making too!
Why would we need Rare with this kind of 1st-party support for the next 12-months??!
And then there's the support of Capcom aswell....
And the list just seems to go on!
Back to Rare now then...
You can't deny the fact that they saved the N64 with some of the most enjoyable and well-designed games we have ever seen in gaming - even by today's standards with the likes of Halo and Grand Theft Auto:Vice City on-offer, on other formats.
I can still remember playing Conker's Bad Fur Day and laughing-so-hard while I realised I had simply never enjoyed playing a game like I had with this. It wasn't just all the bad language, it was everything! Right down to the little move-refferences and tie-ins that made you step-back and say "Aha!".
And then there was GoldenEye, along with Perfect Dark that followed a few years later. I can still remember enjoying all those great sniping-moments as James Bond - even if I was really no good at that game. And the array of weaponry, aswell as many of the missions, were all superb and different to the last. And I wasn't too-hot at that game either... But I still loved it!
And then I remember getting both Banjo-Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 only last-year... DK may've only dissapointed really after the `Donkey Kong Country` series on the Super Nintendo, but with Banjo the Bear and Kazooie the scouse-talking Bird, I barely missed the thrills of Super Mario 64 (my very-first N64 title) one-bit!
So many memories... So many great and unique games like Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps.... Even if the GameCube does have an impressive line-up for 2003, I still feel we will miss Rare dearly.
Thinking back to those days now, after having experienced the dissapointment of StarFox Adventures on the GameCube recently, I can't seem to think of one-good-explanation as to why Rare's games that grabbed your attention and sold the N64 (GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Banjo-Tooie, etc...)...
It's not like they were that innovative or original or anything, even if they have come a long-way in their own ways since games of a similar style 10 years ago.
Infact, their only really original and highly-unique games were Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini - and they hardly went and shot of the shelves in record numbers like what we saw in December with GTA: Vice City's PS2 release, did they...?
And it seems that the more-and-more I think about it, I can't seem to see how any other of Rare's N64 releases was anymore innovative than what Crash Bandicoot and Ty the Tazmanian Tiger are compared to Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog games....!
Let's look closely at this then, shall we?...
First of all, there were the 2 highly-popular `Banjo` games that became an instant-hit amongst Super Mario fans who were looking for something after Mario 64. Now the idea of 2 characters working-together as heroes to save the day isn't something that we haven't seen before. Ever played Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the SEGA MegaDrvie as Sonic? While the speedy, blue, "rodent" was racing around grabbing gold rings, Tails (Miles Prower) was always hovering near-by to offer Sonic a helping-hand.
Just like Tails did with Sonic, Kazooie the bird offers Banjo the bear the chance to fly across those gaping gaps in each new zone/world, while also being able to assist him in combat to save Sonic's blue-behind when he's caught in those sticky-situations.
I hardly call that feature of the game "original", would you?
Yet still it proved to be one of the greatest factors in the gameplay of both titles, and we appreciated these games more partly because of the way the team-work.
When I first played Donkey Kong 64, I have to admit that I was impressed. I'd heard so-many bad things about this game, but I failed to see them when I first got-going with it only last-year. To me, it appeared as quite-simply Banjo-Kazooie/Mario 64 with Donkey and his Kongs as the main characters. But it was only once I'd really given this game a try that I realised it was A LOT like the first Banjo game, yet far-from what I had come to know and love as a Donkey Kong game several years ago on Nintendo's previous home console.
It looked like one of the Banjo games, but in a way, it tried to be Super Mario 64. And it failed. Miserabley! Although, at times, it wasn't all that-bad a game...
But after collecting all available tokens and bananas, and defeating the boss for the umpteenth time, it became clear to me that this was just like any other 3D platfromer in its day; trying to re-create Mario.
Rare may've been good in their days, but they should've known better and just left the `good-stuff` to Nintendo and Shigeru Miyamoto; a man who NEVER dissapoints us!
Having only had this game for a few months now, Diddy Kong Racing has fast-become one of the my all-time favourite N64 titles, and definitley one of the most enjoyable Rare games I have ever experienced - especially with mates.
But even with the likes of Diddy Kong, Conker the Squirrel, and Banjo the Bear sitting in the drivers' seats you can clearly see how obviously this game resembles the supreme multi-player racer of all-time; `Super Mario Kart`.
Racing round tracks pushing for first-place... Collecting items to chuck at opponents ahead of you from boxes along the track.... Doesn't all-this sound a little TOO familliar? I'll give Rare credit for the single-player mode though, that in it's own right showed good-innituitive sticking bosses in at the end of certain races, turning the game into more of an `in-car adventure` than another `Mario Kart-clone`.
This one too may've been a great joy to play, and the single-player mode did beat Mario Kart 64 to the gold medal, but overall this deserves only 2nd place for its blatant lack of originallity in so-many places.
The same could also be said for the un-recieved Mickey's Speedway, in some cases anyway... But even there it was basically the same old Mario Kart idea, only they tried to hide it with old Disney "has-beens" that couldn't sell a game in 100 years!
Perfect Dark and GoldenEye (especially) may've blown-us-all-away back in the late 1990's for many reasons, but was there anything there that really made these games THAT-different to the likes of Doom and Quake PC gamers had already been enjoying for the few-years prior to the N64?
Revolutionising and adding new ideas to a first-person shooter may not be the easiest thing in the world to do, but somehow Bungie managed to do something that has made Halo possibly the best available to-date.
All-credit to Rare for making a highly-succesfull game out of an equally-well-recieved film from it's time, but surely even they could've done more with it?
It was taken from a film after all - that's hardly and original concept. And then came Perfect Dark - a game that acted more like a futuristic sequel in a different time and place. COME-ON!! What were we really praising them for??!!
Like I said earlier, they deserve credit for the likes of Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps in-which they exploited these un-tested genres and showed us what you can really do with ideas like these when you work hard at them...
But why couldn't they have worked harder and tried something like that in one of the Banjo games, or something that would seperate Perfecr Dark further-away from its predeccesor; GoldenEye? That would've shown they were really worth the $375m-odd Bill Gates forked-out on them.
If you ask me, Nintendo got the better deal!
All I can see now from the majority of Rare's games on the N64 is a lot of staleness, and a lack of real originallity with so-many ideas clearly stolen from the likes of Nintendo and SEGA who have shown us they know best for years.
And to think we wanted them to stay.... PAH!!
Go copy off of Microsoft, buy everything in sight!
It's clear to us after StarFox Adventures that you aren't worth the money after spending 4-years (apparently!!) on a very cheap Zelda-esque game.
Like I said before; leave the good-stuff to Nintendo!
Come to think of it, I don't like the look of that `Kameo: Elements of Power` game either...! I get the feeling that I've seen an idea like that "Poké"-ing and "Pik"-ing its way around these parts before....
Uri Geller was on about suing Nintendo a while back for making a Pokémon out of him, but nobody else really saw it, and just laughed at him.
But with Rare however... Perhaps Nintendo should go "have words" with Microsoft's new cronies before things get too out-of-hand...?
Send-in the Super Mario Bros.!
I'm glad Rare have gone! :)
But with the new year we've heard some great news on some fantastic new -- and exclusive -- titles for 2003/04 that would simply knock the likes of Mario SunShine, Pikmin, and Super Smash Bros. off of our game-clustered shelves.
We then came to realise that we weren't going to need Rare after all with the likes of Metroid Prime and Zelda: The Wind Waker coming-our-way VERY SOON, with sequels for unique individuals like Pikmin and the currently un-released Animal Crossing currently in development - awell as a new Mario games in the making too!
Why would we need Rare with this kind of 1st-party support for the next 12-months??!
And then there's the support of Capcom aswell....
And the list just seems to go on!
Back to Rare now then...
You can't deny the fact that they saved the N64 with some of the most enjoyable and well-designed games we have ever seen in gaming - even by today's standards with the likes of Halo and Grand Theft Auto:Vice City on-offer, on other formats.
I can still remember playing Conker's Bad Fur Day and laughing-so-hard while I realised I had simply never enjoyed playing a game like I had with this. It wasn't just all the bad language, it was everything! Right down to the little move-refferences and tie-ins that made you step-back and say "Aha!".
And then there was GoldenEye, along with Perfect Dark that followed a few years later. I can still remember enjoying all those great sniping-moments as James Bond - even if I was really no good at that game. And the array of weaponry, aswell as many of the missions, were all superb and different to the last. And I wasn't too-hot at that game either... But I still loved it!
And then I remember getting both Banjo-Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 only last-year... DK may've only dissapointed really after the `Donkey Kong Country` series on the Super Nintendo, but with Banjo the Bear and Kazooie the scouse-talking Bird, I barely missed the thrills of Super Mario 64 (my very-first N64 title) one-bit!
So many memories... So many great and unique games like Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps.... Even if the GameCube does have an impressive line-up for 2003, I still feel we will miss Rare dearly.
Thinking back to those days now, after having experienced the dissapointment of StarFox Adventures on the GameCube recently, I can't seem to think of one-good-explanation as to why Rare's games that grabbed your attention and sold the N64 (GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Banjo-Tooie, etc...)...
It's not like they were that innovative or original or anything, even if they have come a long-way in their own ways since games of a similar style 10 years ago.
Infact, their only really original and highly-unique games were Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini - and they hardly went and shot of the shelves in record numbers like what we saw in December with GTA: Vice City's PS2 release, did they...?
And it seems that the more-and-more I think about it, I can't seem to see how any other of Rare's N64 releases was anymore innovative than what Crash Bandicoot and Ty the Tazmanian Tiger are compared to Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog games....!
Let's look closely at this then, shall we?...
First of all, there were the 2 highly-popular `Banjo` games that became an instant-hit amongst Super Mario fans who were looking for something after Mario 64. Now the idea of 2 characters working-together as heroes to save the day isn't something that we haven't seen before. Ever played Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the SEGA MegaDrvie as Sonic? While the speedy, blue, "rodent" was racing around grabbing gold rings, Tails (Miles Prower) was always hovering near-by to offer Sonic a helping-hand.
Just like Tails did with Sonic, Kazooie the bird offers Banjo the bear the chance to fly across those gaping gaps in each new zone/world, while also being able to assist him in combat to save Sonic's blue-behind when he's caught in those sticky-situations.
I hardly call that feature of the game "original", would you?
Yet still it proved to be one of the greatest factors in the gameplay of both titles, and we appreciated these games more partly because of the way the team-work.
When I first played Donkey Kong 64, I have to admit that I was impressed. I'd heard so-many bad things about this game, but I failed to see them when I first got-going with it only last-year. To me, it appeared as quite-simply Banjo-Kazooie/Mario 64 with Donkey and his Kongs as the main characters. But it was only once I'd really given this game a try that I realised it was A LOT like the first Banjo game, yet far-from what I had come to know and love as a Donkey Kong game several years ago on Nintendo's previous home console.
It looked like one of the Banjo games, but in a way, it tried to be Super Mario 64. And it failed. Miserabley! Although, at times, it wasn't all that-bad a game...
But after collecting all available tokens and bananas, and defeating the boss for the umpteenth time, it became clear to me that this was just like any other 3D platfromer in its day; trying to re-create Mario.
Rare may've been good in their days, but they should've known better and just left the `good-stuff` to Nintendo and Shigeru Miyamoto; a man who NEVER dissapoints us!
Having only had this game for a few months now, Diddy Kong Racing has fast-become one of the my all-time favourite N64 titles, and definitley one of the most enjoyable Rare games I have ever experienced - especially with mates.
But even with the likes of Diddy Kong, Conker the Squirrel, and Banjo the Bear sitting in the drivers' seats you can clearly see how obviously this game resembles the supreme multi-player racer of all-time; `Super Mario Kart`.
Racing round tracks pushing for first-place... Collecting items to chuck at opponents ahead of you from boxes along the track.... Doesn't all-this sound a little TOO familliar? I'll give Rare credit for the single-player mode though, that in it's own right showed good-innituitive sticking bosses in at the end of certain races, turning the game into more of an `in-car adventure` than another `Mario Kart-clone`.
This one too may've been a great joy to play, and the single-player mode did beat Mario Kart 64 to the gold medal, but overall this deserves only 2nd place for its blatant lack of originallity in so-many places.
The same could also be said for the un-recieved Mickey's Speedway, in some cases anyway... But even there it was basically the same old Mario Kart idea, only they tried to hide it with old Disney "has-beens" that couldn't sell a game in 100 years!
Perfect Dark and GoldenEye (especially) may've blown-us-all-away back in the late 1990's for many reasons, but was there anything there that really made these games THAT-different to the likes of Doom and Quake PC gamers had already been enjoying for the few-years prior to the N64?
Revolutionising and adding new ideas to a first-person shooter may not be the easiest thing in the world to do, but somehow Bungie managed to do something that has made Halo possibly the best available to-date.
All-credit to Rare for making a highly-succesfull game out of an equally-well-recieved film from it's time, but surely even they could've done more with it?
It was taken from a film after all - that's hardly and original concept. And then came Perfect Dark - a game that acted more like a futuristic sequel in a different time and place. COME-ON!! What were we really praising them for??!!
Like I said earlier, they deserve credit for the likes of Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps in-which they exploited these un-tested genres and showed us what you can really do with ideas like these when you work hard at them...
But why couldn't they have worked harder and tried something like that in one of the Banjo games, or something that would seperate Perfecr Dark further-away from its predeccesor; GoldenEye? That would've shown they were really worth the $375m-odd Bill Gates forked-out on them.
If you ask me, Nintendo got the better deal!
All I can see now from the majority of Rare's games on the N64 is a lot of staleness, and a lack of real originallity with so-many ideas clearly stolen from the likes of Nintendo and SEGA who have shown us they know best for years.
And to think we wanted them to stay.... PAH!!
Go copy off of Microsoft, buy everything in sight!
It's clear to us after StarFox Adventures that you aren't worth the money after spending 4-years (apparently!!) on a very cheap Zelda-esque game.
Like I said before; leave the good-stuff to Nintendo!
Come to think of it, I don't like the look of that `Kameo: Elements of Power` game either...! I get the feeling that I've seen an idea like that "Poké"-ing and "Pik"-ing its way around these parts before....
Uri Geller was on about suing Nintendo a while back for making a Pokémon out of him, but nobody else really saw it, and just laughed at him.
But with Rare however... Perhaps Nintendo should go "have words" with Microsoft's new cronies before things get too out-of-hand...?
Send-in the Super Mario Bros.!
I'm glad Rare have gone! :)
Page:
I honestly don't think Jet Force Jemini was average. It was one of my most played games.
I played through to the section where you had to save all the bears to get the final ship part. Could get no further. Gave up.
Later started the game all over. Eventually I won it.
Later I started the game all over again. Didn't get to the end. But if you know how big the game is you'll realise me playing the game through nearly three times over would've taken a VERY long time.
I loved JFG.
Anyway. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were both very original!
Human enemies with different damage depending on where you shot them and 'realistic' reactions to getting shot, proper objectives and objective structures, Perfect Dark pioneered secondary functions on weapons, both featured the arguably the best FPS multiplay experience on a console... Both pioneered some truely ingenious gadgets and weaponary that have now been imitated many times over (remote mines anyone?) They also featured the 'earning' cheats sytem which many now use.
Rare were not unoriginal in my opinion. Nintendo were probably more 'revolutionary' in many of their ideas, but that doesn't detract from Rare's achievements. Starfox was a disappointment. Many parts of it didn't feel like a Rare game to me, it felt like a third party trying to make a cut down Zelda. But still, I am sad to see Rare go, and whatever Nintendo say about better investment opportunites, I still wish Nintendo had kept Rare. But I'm not about to start hating Rare and trashing their acheivements because of a business decision. Rare rule.
I played through to the section where you had to save all the bears to get the final ship part. Could get no further. Gave up.
Later started the game all over. Eventually I won it.
Later I started the game all over again. Didn't get to the end. But if you know how big the game is you'll realise me playing the game through nearly three times over would've taken a VERY long time.
I loved JFG.
Anyway. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were both very original!
Human enemies with different damage depending on where you shot them and 'realistic' reactions to getting shot, proper objectives and objective structures, Perfect Dark pioneered secondary functions on weapons, both featured the arguably the best FPS multiplay experience on a console... Both pioneered some truely ingenious gadgets and weaponary that have now been imitated many times over (remote mines anyone?) They also featured the 'earning' cheats sytem which many now use.
Rare were not unoriginal in my opinion. Nintendo were probably more 'revolutionary' in many of their ideas, but that doesn't detract from Rare's achievements. Starfox was a disappointment. Many parts of it didn't feel like a Rare game to me, it felt like a third party trying to make a cut down Zelda. But still, I am sad to see Rare go, and whatever Nintendo say about better investment opportunites, I still wish Nintendo had kept Rare. But I'm not about to start hating Rare and trashing their acheivements because of a business decision. Rare rule.
Perhaps no-one got Belldandy's point...
In the days of the N64, when Rare and Nintendo were in bed with each other, Ninty's loved Rare and hardly had a bad thing to say about them. An "average" game like Jet Force Gemini was taken favourably, and people went on and on about how great Goldeneye was.
When rumours began to spread about Nintendo losing Rare, Ninty's refused to believe that the two would be parted, and cited their great list of games together.
Now that the two are seperated we are suddenly getting a barrage of topics along the lines of "Oh, they weren't THAT good anyway". What a U-turn...
That's not to say that the things in this topic are untrue - just that no Ninty would have ever made such a topic a year ago... Rare have fallen from grace overnight.
Sonic
In the days of the N64, when Rare and Nintendo were in bed with each other, Ninty's loved Rare and hardly had a bad thing to say about them. An "average" game like Jet Force Gemini was taken favourably, and people went on and on about how great Goldeneye was.
When rumours began to spread about Nintendo losing Rare, Ninty's refused to believe that the two would be parted, and cited their great list of games together.
Now that the two are seperated we are suddenly getting a barrage of topics along the lines of "Oh, they weren't THAT good anyway". What a U-turn...
That's not to say that the things in this topic are untrue - just that no Ninty would have ever made such a topic a year ago... Rare have fallen from grace overnight.
Sonic
I wouldn't say that.
Rare tend to be inconsistant extremists.
Yes, some of their games are blatant copies/rip-offs, when when they are original, the games either become unique standouts (liek Blast Corps, Jet Force Gemini and Conker) or are so revolutionary that their best bits are copied and standardised (Goldeneye and Perfect Dark).
Solskjaers points on the Mario rip-offs were spot on.
But not EVERY game HAS to be original.
There are some points I'd certainly have to argue with:
Solskjćr wrote:
> Perfect Dark and GoldenEye (especially) may've blown-us-all-away back
> in the late 1990's for many reasons, but was there anything there that
> really made these games THAT-different to the likes of Doom and Quake
> PC gamers had already been enjoying for the few-years prior to the
> N64?
Well yes actually.
Goldeneye came out BEFORE Quake 2, and made the new king of PC FPS seem, putting it simply, crap.
Quake 2 was merely a standard upgrade of the classic PC FPS components.
Goldeneye was revolutionary.
Where can I start?
Convincing locations rather than the traditional dark, dreary repetitive caves. Enemies with decent AI and animation with actually reacted to being shot rather than the big bulking monsters who'd just spurt a stream of red pixels while advancing as if nothing had happened.
Headshots were introduced for the first time, meaning precise skillful aiming was encouraged, rather than just aiming the cross hair roughly in the right direction and firing as many rockets as possible.
Sniping, stealth and mission objectives were used properly for the first time (sure, other games showed mission objectives but didn't play like them - it was just getting to points of the level rather than actually doing a mission).
Reloading was done for the first time in an FPS (wheras the "state of the art" Quake 2 had you simply holding the trigger until you ran out of bullets allowing for GREAT tactical fights...).
And then there's that 4 player splitscreen which changed everything FOREVER! (incidently, Halo's best point was a similar 4 player splitscreen...)
Perfect Dark didn't revolutionise like Goldeneye did (what could?) but added plenty of new ideas of it's own.
One of Halo's strong points?
The tanks and hoverbikes you could use.
Goldeneye had the tank. Perfect Dark had a hoverbike.
Sure, they werem't implimented half as well as the Halo incarnations but we're talking innoative ideas here.
There's LOADs more I could say but I've already proved my point...
> Revolutionising and adding new ideas to a first-person shooter may not
> be the easiest thing in the world to do, but somehow Bungie managed to
> do something that has made Halo possibly the best available to-date.
Incidently, Halo's best bits were evolutions of the raw innoavtion on Goldeneye.
> All-credit to Rare for making a highly-succesfull game out of an
> equally-well-recieved film from it's time, but surely even they
> could've done more with it?
Yes. They said so themselves - there was loads more they wanted to add but didn't have enough devellopment time for, so some things had to wait for Perfect Dark.
> It was taken from a film after all - that's hardly and original
> concept.
After all, storyline is all that matters when it come originality...
I think you've sort of missed the point.
>And then came Perfect Dark - a game that acted more like a
> futuristic sequel in a different time and place. COME-ON!! What were
> we really praising them for??!!
The innovation in gameplay perhaps?
> Like I said earlier, they deserve credit for the likes of Jet Force
> Gemini and Blast Corps in-which they exploited these un-tested genres
> and showed us what you can really do with ideas like these when you
> work hard at them...
Yep.
> But why couldn't they have worked harder and tried something like that
> in one of the Banjo games, or something that would seperate Perfecr
> Dark further-away from its predeccesor; GoldenEye? That would've shown
> they were really worth the $375m-odd Bill Gates forked-out on them.
Banjo wasn't meant to be a revolution, just an enjoyable alternative to Mario.
As to Perfect Dark, people wanted more of the same to Goldeneye.
Most people thought that they'd changed it TOO MUCH.
> If you ask me, Nintendo got the better deal!
Nintendo, yes.
Nintendo fans, no.
> All I can see now from the majority of Rare's games on the N64 is a
> lot of staleness, and a lack of real originallity with so-many ideas
> clearly stolen from the likes of Nintendo and SEGA who have shown us
> they know best for years.
Sheesh!
Yes, Banjo ripped off Mario 64. IT WAS MEANT TO.
Killer Instinct ripped off Mortal Kombat. IT WAS MEANT TO.
Starfox was a Zelda wannabe. IT WAS MEANT TO.
Yes, not EVERY game they made was original, but did it really have to be? Especially when they shook up the industry with Goldeneye (sure 4 player splitscreen doesn't seem like a big deal today, BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A REVOLUTION, EVERY FPS HAS COPIED THE IDEA SINCE!) and Conker, and given clever ideas in the form of Jet Force and Blast Corps.
> And to think we wanted them to stay.... PAH!!
Well yeah, but atleast the Xbox is dropping in price...
> Go copy off of Microsoft, buy everything in sight!
> It's clear to us after StarFox Adventures that you aren't worth the
> money after spending 4-years (apparently!!) on a very cheap
> Zelda-esque game.
They messed up on Starfox, but that was probably as much Nintendo wanting them to make it kiddie-suitable as their own design flaws.
Without those design flaws, you have the most graphically beautiful game on the Gamecube with nice sound and huge potential.
> Come to think of it, I don't like the look of that `Kameo: Elements of
> Power` game either...! I get the feeling that I've seen an idea like
> that "Poké"-ing and "Pik"-ing its way
> around these parts before....
It has jack to do with Pikmin and started devellopent before Shigsy's recent masterpiece was even thought up in that garden.
As for Pokémon, yes, it does borrow the "catch and evolve the monster" theme, but puts it into real time gameplay rather than those old fasioned menu systems.
> I'm glad Rare have gone! :)
You keep telling yourself that.
Wow... I've not ranted like that in a long time...
Rare tend to be inconsistant extremists.
Yes, some of their games are blatant copies/rip-offs, when when they are original, the games either become unique standouts (liek Blast Corps, Jet Force Gemini and Conker) or are so revolutionary that their best bits are copied and standardised (Goldeneye and Perfect Dark).
Solskjaers points on the Mario rip-offs were spot on.
But not EVERY game HAS to be original.
There are some points I'd certainly have to argue with:
Solskjćr wrote:
> Perfect Dark and GoldenEye (especially) may've blown-us-all-away back
> in the late 1990's for many reasons, but was there anything there that
> really made these games THAT-different to the likes of Doom and Quake
> PC gamers had already been enjoying for the few-years prior to the
> N64?
Well yes actually.
Goldeneye came out BEFORE Quake 2, and made the new king of PC FPS seem, putting it simply, crap.
Quake 2 was merely a standard upgrade of the classic PC FPS components.
Goldeneye was revolutionary.
Where can I start?
Convincing locations rather than the traditional dark, dreary repetitive caves. Enemies with decent AI and animation with actually reacted to being shot rather than the big bulking monsters who'd just spurt a stream of red pixels while advancing as if nothing had happened.
Headshots were introduced for the first time, meaning precise skillful aiming was encouraged, rather than just aiming the cross hair roughly in the right direction and firing as many rockets as possible.
Sniping, stealth and mission objectives were used properly for the first time (sure, other games showed mission objectives but didn't play like them - it was just getting to points of the level rather than actually doing a mission).
Reloading was done for the first time in an FPS (wheras the "state of the art" Quake 2 had you simply holding the trigger until you ran out of bullets allowing for GREAT tactical fights...).
And then there's that 4 player splitscreen which changed everything FOREVER! (incidently, Halo's best point was a similar 4 player splitscreen...)
Perfect Dark didn't revolutionise like Goldeneye did (what could?) but added plenty of new ideas of it's own.
One of Halo's strong points?
The tanks and hoverbikes you could use.
Goldeneye had the tank. Perfect Dark had a hoverbike.
Sure, they werem't implimented half as well as the Halo incarnations but we're talking innoative ideas here.
There's LOADs more I could say but I've already proved my point...
> Revolutionising and adding new ideas to a first-person shooter may not
> be the easiest thing in the world to do, but somehow Bungie managed to
> do something that has made Halo possibly the best available to-date.
Incidently, Halo's best bits were evolutions of the raw innoavtion on Goldeneye.
> All-credit to Rare for making a highly-succesfull game out of an
> equally-well-recieved film from it's time, but surely even they
> could've done more with it?
Yes. They said so themselves - there was loads more they wanted to add but didn't have enough devellopment time for, so some things had to wait for Perfect Dark.
> It was taken from a film after all - that's hardly and original
> concept.
After all, storyline is all that matters when it come originality...
I think you've sort of missed the point.
>And then came Perfect Dark - a game that acted more like a
> futuristic sequel in a different time and place. COME-ON!! What were
> we really praising them for??!!
The innovation in gameplay perhaps?
> Like I said earlier, they deserve credit for the likes of Jet Force
> Gemini and Blast Corps in-which they exploited these un-tested genres
> and showed us what you can really do with ideas like these when you
> work hard at them...
Yep.
> But why couldn't they have worked harder and tried something like that
> in one of the Banjo games, or something that would seperate Perfecr
> Dark further-away from its predeccesor; GoldenEye? That would've shown
> they were really worth the $375m-odd Bill Gates forked-out on them.
Banjo wasn't meant to be a revolution, just an enjoyable alternative to Mario.
As to Perfect Dark, people wanted more of the same to Goldeneye.
Most people thought that they'd changed it TOO MUCH.
> If you ask me, Nintendo got the better deal!
Nintendo, yes.
Nintendo fans, no.
> All I can see now from the majority of Rare's games on the N64 is a
> lot of staleness, and a lack of real originallity with so-many ideas
> clearly stolen from the likes of Nintendo and SEGA who have shown us
> they know best for years.
Sheesh!
Yes, Banjo ripped off Mario 64. IT WAS MEANT TO.
Killer Instinct ripped off Mortal Kombat. IT WAS MEANT TO.
Starfox was a Zelda wannabe. IT WAS MEANT TO.
Yes, not EVERY game they made was original, but did it really have to be? Especially when they shook up the industry with Goldeneye (sure 4 player splitscreen doesn't seem like a big deal today, BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A REVOLUTION, EVERY FPS HAS COPIED THE IDEA SINCE!) and Conker, and given clever ideas in the form of Jet Force and Blast Corps.
> And to think we wanted them to stay.... PAH!!
Well yeah, but atleast the Xbox is dropping in price...
> Go copy off of Microsoft, buy everything in sight!
> It's clear to us after StarFox Adventures that you aren't worth the
> money after spending 4-years (apparently!!) on a very cheap
> Zelda-esque game.
They messed up on Starfox, but that was probably as much Nintendo wanting them to make it kiddie-suitable as their own design flaws.
Without those design flaws, you have the most graphically beautiful game on the Gamecube with nice sound and huge potential.
> Come to think of it, I don't like the look of that `Kameo: Elements of
> Power` game either...! I get the feeling that I've seen an idea like
> that "Poké"-ing and "Pik"-ing its way
> around these parts before....
It has jack to do with Pikmin and started devellopent before Shigsy's recent masterpiece was even thought up in that garden.
As for Pokémon, yes, it does borrow the "catch and evolve the monster" theme, but puts it into real time gameplay rather than those old fasioned menu systems.
> I'm glad Rare have gone! :)
You keep telling yourself that.
Wow... I've not ranted like that in a long time...
Belldandy wrote:
> Short version;
>
> Rare + being Nintendo exclusive = good games.
> Rare + not being Nintendo exclusive = crap games.
Oh shutup Belldandy.
If you've played Starfox, DK64, banjo Tooie then you'll know what he's talking about.
They still make good game there's no doubt about it (well maybe not Starfox) but the fact is when they where making games for the N64 they where always in Nintendo's shadow.
Sure they have made a few original games, but they're more than happy to churn out rehash after rehash of the same game. They may play well but there was no originality in the majority of the games Rare made for the N64. The Donkey Kong games on the SNES are another example, they found a winning forumla with the first game and where more than happy to make sequels with very little difference to them.
Don't get me wrong they make good games and if they came on Gamecube then i'd buy them. But originality is not one of their strong points.
> Short version;
>
> Rare + being Nintendo exclusive = good games.
> Rare + not being Nintendo exclusive = crap games.
Oh shutup Belldandy.
If you've played Starfox, DK64, banjo Tooie then you'll know what he's talking about.
They still make good game there's no doubt about it (well maybe not Starfox) but the fact is when they where making games for the N64 they where always in Nintendo's shadow.
Sure they have made a few original games, but they're more than happy to churn out rehash after rehash of the same game. They may play well but there was no originality in the majority of the games Rare made for the N64. The Donkey Kong games on the SNES are another example, they found a winning forumla with the first game and where more than happy to make sequels with very little difference to them.
Don't get me wrong they make good games and if they came on Gamecube then i'd buy them. But originality is not one of their strong points.
It's not that the games are crap, but they do tend to take their fair share of inspiration from Nintendo's games.
Mario 64 ~ Banjo Kazooie ~ Donkey Kong
Mario Kart ~ Diddy Kong Racing
Zelda ~ Starfox Adventures
Pokemon ~ Kameo
The only games they made that weren't in the same vein as Nintendo's were Blast Corps, Conker's and Goldeneye (ledaing to PD, obviously).
Mario 64 ~ Banjo Kazooie ~ Donkey Kong
Mario Kart ~ Diddy Kong Racing
Zelda ~ Starfox Adventures
Pokemon ~ Kameo
The only games they made that weren't in the same vein as Nintendo's were Blast Corps, Conker's and Goldeneye (ledaing to PD, obviously).
Short version;
Rare + being Nintendo exclusive = good games.
Rare + not being Nintendo exclusive = crap games.
Strange that, one month Rare was important to Nintendo, then it's not... the usual Nintendo tragic comedy eh ?
BTW, rented Mario Part 4 and Medal Of Honour today with those vouchers from NOM, both suck big time.
~~Belldandy~~
Rare + being Nintendo exclusive = good games.
Rare + not being Nintendo exclusive = crap games.
Strange that, one month Rare was important to Nintendo, then it's not... the usual Nintendo tragic comedy eh ?
BTW, rented Mario Part 4 and Medal Of Honour today with those vouchers from NOM, both suck big time.
~~Belldandy~~
With the $350m+ departure of British developers Rareware from Nintendo to Microsoft came the believe amongst almost-all X-Box and PS2 fans alike that the 3rd competitor in the console war, Nintendo's GameCube, would be on the road to nowhere, and would soon be caught sinking-fast without the support of the Brits. who saved the N64 (sort of...) with the sheer brilliance of GoldenEye, Banjo-Kazooie, and the rest. Rumours began to arise that Nintendo were to go in-search of a new replacement for Rare with all that spare-cash, while Microsoft's fans couldn't believe their luck at the thought of having Perfect Dark Zero available exclusively to their console ONLY. The GameCube's future was beginning to look very bleak indeed with only so-much little information and news we had on it's future plans...
But with the new year we've heard some great news on some fantastic new -- and exclusive -- titles for 2003/04 that would simply knock the likes of Mario SunShine, Pikmin, and Super Smash Bros. off of our game-clustered shelves.
We then came to realise that we weren't going to need Rare after all with the likes of Metroid Prime and Zelda: The Wind Waker coming-our-way VERY SOON, with sequels for unique individuals like Pikmin and the currently un-released Animal Crossing currently in development - awell as a new Mario games in the making too!
Why would we need Rare with this kind of 1st-party support for the next 12-months??!
And then there's the support of Capcom aswell....
And the list just seems to go on!
Back to Rare now then...
You can't deny the fact that they saved the N64 with some of the most enjoyable and well-designed games we have ever seen in gaming - even by today's standards with the likes of Halo and Grand Theft Auto:Vice City on-offer, on other formats.
I can still remember playing Conker's Bad Fur Day and laughing-so-hard while I realised I had simply never enjoyed playing a game like I had with this. It wasn't just all the bad language, it was everything! Right down to the little move-refferences and tie-ins that made you step-back and say "Aha!".
And then there was GoldenEye, along with Perfect Dark that followed a few years later. I can still remember enjoying all those great sniping-moments as James Bond - even if I was really no good at that game. And the array of weaponry, aswell as many of the missions, were all superb and different to the last. And I wasn't too-hot at that game either... But I still loved it!
And then I remember getting both Banjo-Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 only last-year... DK may've only dissapointed really after the `Donkey Kong Country` series on the Super Nintendo, but with Banjo the Bear and Kazooie the scouse-talking Bird, I barely missed the thrills of Super Mario 64 (my very-first N64 title) one-bit!
So many memories... So many great and unique games like Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps.... Even if the GameCube does have an impressive line-up for 2003, I still feel we will miss Rare dearly.
Thinking back to those days now, after having experienced the dissapointment of StarFox Adventures on the GameCube recently, I can't seem to think of one-good-explanation as to why Rare's games that grabbed your attention and sold the N64 (GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Banjo-Tooie, etc...)...
It's not like they were that innovative or original or anything, even if they have come a long-way in their own ways since games of a similar style 10 years ago.
Infact, their only really original and highly-unique games were Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini - and they hardly went and shot of the shelves in record numbers like what we saw in December with GTA: Vice City's PS2 release, did they...?
And it seems that the more-and-more I think about it, I can't seem to see how any other of Rare's N64 releases was anymore innovative than what Crash Bandicoot and Ty the Tazmanian Tiger are compared to Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog games....!
Let's look closely at this then, shall we?...
First of all, there were the 2 highly-popular `Banjo` games that became an instant-hit amongst Super Mario fans who were looking for something after Mario 64. Now the idea of 2 characters working-together as heroes to save the day isn't something that we haven't seen before. Ever played Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the SEGA MegaDrvie as Sonic? While the speedy, blue, "rodent" was racing around grabbing gold rings, Tails (Miles Prower) was always hovering near-by to offer Sonic a helping-hand.
Just like Tails did with Sonic, Kazooie the bird offers Banjo the bear the chance to fly across those gaping gaps in each new zone/world, while also being able to assist him in combat to save Sonic's blue-behind when he's caught in those sticky-situations.
I hardly call that feature of the game "original", would you?
Yet still it proved to be one of the greatest factors in the gameplay of both titles, and we appreciated these games more partly because of the way the team-work.
When I first played Donkey Kong 64, I have to admit that I was impressed. I'd heard so-many bad things about this game, but I failed to see them when I first got-going with it only last-year. To me, it appeared as quite-simply Banjo-Kazooie/Mario 64 with Donkey and his Kongs as the main characters. But it was only once I'd really given this game a try that I realised it was A LOT like the first Banjo game, yet far-from what I had come to know and love as a Donkey Kong game several years ago on Nintendo's previous home console.
It looked like one of the Banjo games, but in a way, it tried to be Super Mario 64. And it failed. Miserabley! Although, at times, it wasn't all that-bad a game...
But after collecting all available tokens and bananas, and defeating the boss for the umpteenth time, it became clear to me that this was just like any other 3D platfromer in its day; trying to re-create Mario.
Rare may've been good in their days, but they should've known better and just left the `good-stuff` to Nintendo and Shigeru Miyamoto; a man who NEVER dissapoints us!
Having only had this game for a few months now, Diddy Kong Racing has fast-become one of the my all-time favourite N64 titles, and definitley one of the most enjoyable Rare games I have ever experienced - especially with mates.
But even with the likes of Diddy Kong, Conker the Squirrel, and Banjo the Bear sitting in the drivers' seats you can clearly see how obviously this game resembles the supreme multi-player racer of all-time; `Super Mario Kart`.
Racing round tracks pushing for first-place... Collecting items to chuck at opponents ahead of you from boxes along the track.... Doesn't all-this sound a little TOO familliar? I'll give Rare credit for the single-player mode though, that in it's own right showed good-innituitive sticking bosses in at the end of certain races, turning the game into more of an `in-car adventure` than another `Mario Kart-clone`.
This one too may've been a great joy to play, and the single-player mode did beat Mario Kart 64 to the gold medal, but overall this deserves only 2nd place for its blatant lack of originallity in so-many places.
The same could also be said for the un-recieved Mickey's Speedway, in some cases anyway... But even there it was basically the same old Mario Kart idea, only they tried to hide it with old Disney "has-beens" that couldn't sell a game in 100 years!
Perfect Dark and GoldenEye (especially) may've blown-us-all-away back in the late 1990's for many reasons, but was there anything there that really made these games THAT-different to the likes of Doom and Quake PC gamers had already been enjoying for the few-years prior to the N64?
Revolutionising and adding new ideas to a first-person shooter may not be the easiest thing in the world to do, but somehow Bungie managed to do something that has made Halo possibly the best available to-date.
All-credit to Rare for making a highly-succesfull game out of an equally-well-recieved film from it's time, but surely even they could've done more with it?
It was taken from a film after all - that's hardly and original concept. And then came Perfect Dark - a game that acted more like a futuristic sequel in a different time and place. COME-ON!! What were we really praising them for??!!
Like I said earlier, they deserve credit for the likes of Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps in-which they exploited these un-tested genres and showed us what you can really do with ideas like these when you work hard at them...
But why couldn't they have worked harder and tried something like that in one of the Banjo games, or something that would seperate Perfecr Dark further-away from its predeccesor; GoldenEye? That would've shown they were really worth the $375m-odd Bill Gates forked-out on them.
If you ask me, Nintendo got the better deal!
All I can see now from the majority of Rare's games on the N64 is a lot of staleness, and a lack of real originallity with so-many ideas clearly stolen from the likes of Nintendo and SEGA who have shown us they know best for years.
And to think we wanted them to stay.... PAH!!
Go copy off of Microsoft, buy everything in sight!
It's clear to us after StarFox Adventures that you aren't worth the money after spending 4-years (apparently!!) on a very cheap Zelda-esque game.
Like I said before; leave the good-stuff to Nintendo!
Come to think of it, I don't like the look of that `Kameo: Elements of Power` game either...! I get the feeling that I've seen an idea like that "Poké"-ing and "Pik"-ing its way around these parts before....
Uri Geller was on about suing Nintendo a while back for making a Pokémon out of him, but nobody else really saw it, and just laughed at him.
But with Rare however... Perhaps Nintendo should go "have words" with Microsoft's new cronies before things get too out-of-hand...?
Send-in the Super Mario Bros.!
I'm glad Rare have gone! :)
But with the new year we've heard some great news on some fantastic new -- and exclusive -- titles for 2003/04 that would simply knock the likes of Mario SunShine, Pikmin, and Super Smash Bros. off of our game-clustered shelves.
We then came to realise that we weren't going to need Rare after all with the likes of Metroid Prime and Zelda: The Wind Waker coming-our-way VERY SOON, with sequels for unique individuals like Pikmin and the currently un-released Animal Crossing currently in development - awell as a new Mario games in the making too!
Why would we need Rare with this kind of 1st-party support for the next 12-months??!
And then there's the support of Capcom aswell....
And the list just seems to go on!
Back to Rare now then...
You can't deny the fact that they saved the N64 with some of the most enjoyable and well-designed games we have ever seen in gaming - even by today's standards with the likes of Halo and Grand Theft Auto:Vice City on-offer, on other formats.
I can still remember playing Conker's Bad Fur Day and laughing-so-hard while I realised I had simply never enjoyed playing a game like I had with this. It wasn't just all the bad language, it was everything! Right down to the little move-refferences and tie-ins that made you step-back and say "Aha!".
And then there was GoldenEye, along with Perfect Dark that followed a few years later. I can still remember enjoying all those great sniping-moments as James Bond - even if I was really no good at that game. And the array of weaponry, aswell as many of the missions, were all superb and different to the last. And I wasn't too-hot at that game either... But I still loved it!
And then I remember getting both Banjo-Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 only last-year... DK may've only dissapointed really after the `Donkey Kong Country` series on the Super Nintendo, but with Banjo the Bear and Kazooie the scouse-talking Bird, I barely missed the thrills of Super Mario 64 (my very-first N64 title) one-bit!
So many memories... So many great and unique games like Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps.... Even if the GameCube does have an impressive line-up for 2003, I still feel we will miss Rare dearly.
Thinking back to those days now, after having experienced the dissapointment of StarFox Adventures on the GameCube recently, I can't seem to think of one-good-explanation as to why Rare's games that grabbed your attention and sold the N64 (GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Banjo-Tooie, etc...)...
It's not like they were that innovative or original or anything, even if they have come a long-way in their own ways since games of a similar style 10 years ago.
Infact, their only really original and highly-unique games were Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini - and they hardly went and shot of the shelves in record numbers like what we saw in December with GTA: Vice City's PS2 release, did they...?
And it seems that the more-and-more I think about it, I can't seem to see how any other of Rare's N64 releases was anymore innovative than what Crash Bandicoot and Ty the Tazmanian Tiger are compared to Super Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog games....!
Let's look closely at this then, shall we?...
First of all, there were the 2 highly-popular `Banjo` games that became an instant-hit amongst Super Mario fans who were looking for something after Mario 64. Now the idea of 2 characters working-together as heroes to save the day isn't something that we haven't seen before. Ever played Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the SEGA MegaDrvie as Sonic? While the speedy, blue, "rodent" was racing around grabbing gold rings, Tails (Miles Prower) was always hovering near-by to offer Sonic a helping-hand.
Just like Tails did with Sonic, Kazooie the bird offers Banjo the bear the chance to fly across those gaping gaps in each new zone/world, while also being able to assist him in combat to save Sonic's blue-behind when he's caught in those sticky-situations.
I hardly call that feature of the game "original", would you?
Yet still it proved to be one of the greatest factors in the gameplay of both titles, and we appreciated these games more partly because of the way the team-work.
When I first played Donkey Kong 64, I have to admit that I was impressed. I'd heard so-many bad things about this game, but I failed to see them when I first got-going with it only last-year. To me, it appeared as quite-simply Banjo-Kazooie/Mario 64 with Donkey and his Kongs as the main characters. But it was only once I'd really given this game a try that I realised it was A LOT like the first Banjo game, yet far-from what I had come to know and love as a Donkey Kong game several years ago on Nintendo's previous home console.
It looked like one of the Banjo games, but in a way, it tried to be Super Mario 64. And it failed. Miserabley! Although, at times, it wasn't all that-bad a game...
But after collecting all available tokens and bananas, and defeating the boss for the umpteenth time, it became clear to me that this was just like any other 3D platfromer in its day; trying to re-create Mario.
Rare may've been good in their days, but they should've known better and just left the `good-stuff` to Nintendo and Shigeru Miyamoto; a man who NEVER dissapoints us!
Having only had this game for a few months now, Diddy Kong Racing has fast-become one of the my all-time favourite N64 titles, and definitley one of the most enjoyable Rare games I have ever experienced - especially with mates.
But even with the likes of Diddy Kong, Conker the Squirrel, and Banjo the Bear sitting in the drivers' seats you can clearly see how obviously this game resembles the supreme multi-player racer of all-time; `Super Mario Kart`.
Racing round tracks pushing for first-place... Collecting items to chuck at opponents ahead of you from boxes along the track.... Doesn't all-this sound a little TOO familliar? I'll give Rare credit for the single-player mode though, that in it's own right showed good-innituitive sticking bosses in at the end of certain races, turning the game into more of an `in-car adventure` than another `Mario Kart-clone`.
This one too may've been a great joy to play, and the single-player mode did beat Mario Kart 64 to the gold medal, but overall this deserves only 2nd place for its blatant lack of originallity in so-many places.
The same could also be said for the un-recieved Mickey's Speedway, in some cases anyway... But even there it was basically the same old Mario Kart idea, only they tried to hide it with old Disney "has-beens" that couldn't sell a game in 100 years!
Perfect Dark and GoldenEye (especially) may've blown-us-all-away back in the late 1990's for many reasons, but was there anything there that really made these games THAT-different to the likes of Doom and Quake PC gamers had already been enjoying for the few-years prior to the N64?
Revolutionising and adding new ideas to a first-person shooter may not be the easiest thing in the world to do, but somehow Bungie managed to do something that has made Halo possibly the best available to-date.
All-credit to Rare for making a highly-succesfull game out of an equally-well-recieved film from it's time, but surely even they could've done more with it?
It was taken from a film after all - that's hardly and original concept. And then came Perfect Dark - a game that acted more like a futuristic sequel in a different time and place. COME-ON!! What were we really praising them for??!!
Like I said earlier, they deserve credit for the likes of Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps in-which they exploited these un-tested genres and showed us what you can really do with ideas like these when you work hard at them...
But why couldn't they have worked harder and tried something like that in one of the Banjo games, or something that would seperate Perfecr Dark further-away from its predeccesor; GoldenEye? That would've shown they were really worth the $375m-odd Bill Gates forked-out on them.
If you ask me, Nintendo got the better deal!
All I can see now from the majority of Rare's games on the N64 is a lot of staleness, and a lack of real originallity with so-many ideas clearly stolen from the likes of Nintendo and SEGA who have shown us they know best for years.
And to think we wanted them to stay.... PAH!!
Go copy off of Microsoft, buy everything in sight!
It's clear to us after StarFox Adventures that you aren't worth the money after spending 4-years (apparently!!) on a very cheap Zelda-esque game.
Like I said before; leave the good-stuff to Nintendo!
Come to think of it, I don't like the look of that `Kameo: Elements of Power` game either...! I get the feeling that I've seen an idea like that "Poké"-ing and "Pik"-ing its way around these parts before....
Uri Geller was on about suing Nintendo a while back for making a Pokémon out of him, but nobody else really saw it, and just laughed at him.
But with Rare however... Perhaps Nintendo should go "have words" with Microsoft's new cronies before things get too out-of-hand...?
Send-in the Super Mario Bros.!
I'm glad Rare have gone! :)
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