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I am trying to make an online shop site. It should include the regulars like a homepage etc. but also a stock page.
But unlike any other shopping site, this one sells personalised number plates. So I think that I might need a part where you type in your personalised number plate, words/numbers etc.
How would I make this work, and how should I go about making the site?
Are there any programs I could use?
Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real help!
But unlike any other shopping site, this one sells personalised number plates. So I think that I might need a part where you type in your personalised number plate, words/numbers etc.
How would I make this work, and how should I go about making the site?
Are there any programs I could use?
Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real help!
Page:
funkygamer wrote:
Yes, I dont doubt it. But then, how much do you earn?
> (That was a rhetorical question, but I'm sure you get my drift). Also, is the
> site updateable by the customer rather than relying upon you for changes, what
> security does the site have and what happens to the site if the server goes
> down?
How much do I earn? Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make them bad? But to answer your question, yes the products database would be fully updateable online by the customer, yes there is as much security on them as the majority of sites, ie password protected areas and databases, secure connections where appropriate etc. etc..
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
Would be a bit stupid eh? I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
> So I don't believe you can make generalisations like
> cheap =
> rubbish.
> OK. But if you are as good as you think you are, you are the
> exception, rather than the rule. Generally, you get what you pay for with web
> design.
I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish, theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was the message that people were putting across about the more you pay the better you get isn't true. Web design is no different to any other industry in that you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
-G
Yes, I dont doubt it. But then, how much do you earn?
> (That was a rhetorical question, but I'm sure you get my drift). Also, is the
> site updateable by the customer rather than relying upon you for changes, what
> security does the site have and what happens to the site if the server goes
> down?
How much do I earn? Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make them bad? But to answer your question, yes the products database would be fully updateable online by the customer, yes there is as much security on them as the majority of sites, ie password protected areas and databases, secure connections where appropriate etc. etc..
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
Would be a bit stupid eh? I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
> So I don't believe you can make generalisations like
> cheap =
> rubbish.
> OK. But if you are as good as you think you are, you are the
> exception, rather than the rule. Generally, you get what you pay for with web
> design.
I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish, theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was the message that people were putting across about the more you pay the better you get isn't true. Web design is no different to any other industry in that you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
-G
People will charge what they'll get away with. If they're good they can get away with more. Simple.
Garin wrote:
> Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make
> them bad?
Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that was it.
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
> Would be a bit stupid eh?
> I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd
> still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my
> work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your design or coding skills. Honest.
> I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish,
> theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was > the message that people were putting across about the
> more you pay the better you get isn't true.
I would disagree. Yes, There are companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay for the privelege.
> Web design is no different to any other industry in that
> you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some
> expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
True. Like you said before, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring, or they just don't take e-commerce seriously enough to justify spending a lot of money, so they hire the managing director's 14 year old son, who just did a site on Geocities about Pokemon or something!
> Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make
> them bad?
Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that was it.
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
> Would be a bit stupid eh?
> I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd
> still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my
> work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your design or coding skills. Honest.
> I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish,
> theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was > the message that people were putting across about the
> more you pay the better you get isn't true.
I would disagree. Yes, There are companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay for the privelege.
> Web design is no different to any other industry in that
> you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some
> expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
True. Like you said before, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring, or they just don't take e-commerce seriously enough to justify spending a lot of money, so they hire the managing director's 14 year old son, who just did a site on Geocities about Pokemon or something!
> funkygamer wrote:
> Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old
> Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice
> sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around
> £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was
> not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that
> was it.
Fortunately we're well provided for in terms of hardware. The company I work is fortunate in that it has several long term contracts, ie its much more secure than most small businesses and can afford to invest.
> Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I
> want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a
> site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so
> that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your
> design or coding skills. Honest.
Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
> I would disagree. Yes, There are
> companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the
> last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of
> moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a
> well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay
> for the privelege.
Well, like we agreed, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring or even on what they want and/or can have. I think on that basis theres quite the potential for ripping off people? But even forgetting the cowboys out there, profit margins vary from company to company, larger companies usually have bigger profit margins, they can afford to. People do like to have the feeling they are getting good service and/or value for money. One way for them to evaluate this is price, especially true when they don't know much about it. But to say that because they are paying more they are going to get a better service is silly I think. I could draw many parallels here but I guess it would be overkill on the point.
Hm, I missed my calling, should have been in marketing. :)
-G
> Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old
> Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice
> sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around
> £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was
> not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that
> was it.
Fortunately we're well provided for in terms of hardware. The company I work is fortunate in that it has several long term contracts, ie its much more secure than most small businesses and can afford to invest.
> Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I
> want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a
> site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so
> that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your
> design or coding skills. Honest.
Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
> I would disagree. Yes, There are
> companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the
> last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of
> moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a
> well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay
> for the privelege.
Well, like we agreed, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring or even on what they want and/or can have. I think on that basis theres quite the potential for ripping off people? But even forgetting the cowboys out there, profit margins vary from company to company, larger companies usually have bigger profit margins, they can afford to. People do like to have the feeling they are getting good service and/or value for money. One way for them to evaluate this is price, especially true when they don't know much about it. But to say that because they are paying more they are going to get a better service is silly I think. I could draw many parallels here but I guess it would be overkill on the point.
Hm, I missed my calling, should have been in marketing. :)
-G
Garin wrote:
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Now it's arrived.. off to look at the site!!
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Now it's arrived.. off to look at the site!!
Tyla wrote:
> Garin wrote:
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres
> nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks.
> :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe
> and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Try a traceroute to the site then, just tried external isdn and it was fine.
And as I pointed out, wasn't posting the site for a critique. :)
-G
> Garin wrote:
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres
> nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks.
> :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe
> and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Try a traceroute to the site then, just tried external isdn and it was fine.
And as I pointed out, wasn't posting the site for a critique. :)
-G
Nice... Love the Bear site:-) I also like the fact your regional, you don't see that often. Theres a lot of market out there for those who don't require a large global .com site and not many companies who cater and I can see from this how your over heads and costs are lower.. (As well as being in an area where companies don't have the same budgets as multi national firms)
Some really nice work in there and you say your cheap too!!
THough I really would scream at your designers... the page times are just toooooooo slow!! I'd get shot if I produced anything that took that long to appear!!
Anyway
Back to cheap...
We produce ecommerce site, all in house, and all fairly cheaply. Most of our expensive stuff comes from subscriptions and delivery of online content in the form of journals and books, and for this we charge heaps which isn;r bad concidering that our market is one for being renowened for being tight (Academia)!!
As Rob said, it's down to what you can get away with, but there is also that level of quality and reliability.. One of our biggest selling points is our infrastructure, we can gurantee 99.99999999% up time, and the client will pay for that as down time = loss in money and revenue.
Over heads are another, and the market is starting to reflect this. Gon are the days of 3 designers, 7 coders, 8 testers, project manager etc, people now play mulitple roles in site creation... I'm a true designer, but to progress I've had to learn the backend and how to consult with clients and help them realise their vision at a minimal cost...
Cost is a hard one to determine... there are models, and there is history... the boom caused problems, especially with firms charging the earth for their sites...
Client are more aware of shopping around and getting value for money, but there are firms out there who are only interested in making shed loads... these are the ones who are loosing out!!
Some really nice work in there and you say your cheap too!!
THough I really would scream at your designers... the page times are just toooooooo slow!! I'd get shot if I produced anything that took that long to appear!!
Anyway
Back to cheap...
We produce ecommerce site, all in house, and all fairly cheaply. Most of our expensive stuff comes from subscriptions and delivery of online content in the form of journals and books, and for this we charge heaps which isn;r bad concidering that our market is one for being renowened for being tight (Academia)!!
As Rob said, it's down to what you can get away with, but there is also that level of quality and reliability.. One of our biggest selling points is our infrastructure, we can gurantee 99.99999999% up time, and the client will pay for that as down time = loss in money and revenue.
Over heads are another, and the market is starting to reflect this. Gon are the days of 3 designers, 7 coders, 8 testers, project manager etc, people now play mulitple roles in site creation... I'm a true designer, but to progress I've had to learn the backend and how to consult with clients and help them realise their vision at a minimal cost...
Cost is a hard one to determine... there are models, and there is history... the boom caused problems, especially with firms charging the earth for their sites...
Client are more aware of shopping around and getting value for money, but there are firms out there who are only interested in making shed loads... these are the ones who are loosing out!!
Garin wrote:
> Try a traceroute to the site then, just tried external isdn and it was fine.
>And as I pointed out, wasn't posting the site for a critique. :)
I know... just could resist... I'm a pain for speed, especicially as this is probably one of the most important issues with website creation!!
> Try a traceroute to the site then, just tried external isdn and it was fine.
>And as I pointed out, wasn't posting the site for a critique. :)
I know... just could resist... I'm a pain for speed, especicially as this is probably one of the most important issues with website creation!!
Tyla wrote:
> Nice... Love the Bear site:-) I also like the fact your regional, you don't see
> that often. Theres a lot of market out there for those who don't require a large
> global .com site and not many companies who cater and I can see from this how
> your over heads and costs are lower.. (As well as being in an area where
> companies don't have the same budgets as multi national firms)
> Some really nice work in there and you say your cheap too!!
Well, I don't wanna get into this but that bear site, they got charged <200.
> Though I really would scream
> at your designers... the page times are just toooooooo slow!! I'd get shot if I
> produced anything that took that long to appear!!
Actually, I should defend the designers there, the speed issue is down to the netfeed I believe (seems to having issues today). All images are optimized and effort is made to avoid image intensive sites.
But anyway back to the subject in hand...
To get a real idea of the quality/price thats around, a visit to approvedinternet.com and browsing through the members is quite useful I think. Its quite surprising how varied it is, both in quality and price.
-G
> Nice... Love the Bear site:-) I also like the fact your regional, you don't see
> that often. Theres a lot of market out there for those who don't require a large
> global .com site and not many companies who cater and I can see from this how
> your over heads and costs are lower.. (As well as being in an area where
> companies don't have the same budgets as multi national firms)
> Some really nice work in there and you say your cheap too!!
Well, I don't wanna get into this but that bear site, they got charged <200.
> Though I really would scream
> at your designers... the page times are just toooooooo slow!! I'd get shot if I
> produced anything that took that long to appear!!
Actually, I should defend the designers there, the speed issue is down to the netfeed I believe (seems to having issues today). All images are optimized and effort is made to avoid image intensive sites.
But anyway back to the subject in hand...
To get a real idea of the quality/price thats around, a visit to approvedinternet.com and browsing through the members is quite useful I think. Its quite surprising how varied it is, both in quality and price.
-G
Tyla wrote:
> Gon are the days of 3 designers, 7 coders, 8 testers,
> project manager etc, people now play mulitple roles in
> site creation... I'm a true designer, but to progress
> I've had to learn the backend and how to consult with
> clients and help them realise their vision at a minimal
> cost...
What you say about multiple roles is so right. I started off as a "true" tech head, but because I spent just over 3 years with 2 different design firms, I learnt some design as well. Photoshop & Flash, but also just what makes a site look and work nice, typefaces, white space and stuff like that. I think this gives me a slight advantage when it comes to getting a job, I can do front and backend stuff... As I am proving with my current project... Which I'll tell you guys more about soon as it is launched.
> Cost is a hard one to determine... there are models, and
> there is history... the boom caused problems, especially > with firms charging the earth for their sites...
Also true. But I think there are lots of companies out there not charging enough and then not being able to afford to grow as a company, or afford enough staff / hardware to support their growing client base.
> there are firms out there who are only interested in
> making shed loads... these are the ones who are loosing
> out!!
Yes, I think there have been some big casualties... anyone remember port80? Or flg21? Both had amazing client lists, but were either charging too much, taking too long on projects, or just not re-visiting clients to see if thier needs had changed or if they wanted an update to their site or whatever.
Too many "suits" jumped onto the bandwagon in the middle of the boom. They didn't understand the technology or the process of making web sites, but they thought they would give it a go anyway.... ooerrr... I'm ranting now aren't I?
> Gon are the days of 3 designers, 7 coders, 8 testers,
> project manager etc, people now play mulitple roles in
> site creation... I'm a true designer, but to progress
> I've had to learn the backend and how to consult with
> clients and help them realise their vision at a minimal
> cost...
What you say about multiple roles is so right. I started off as a "true" tech head, but because I spent just over 3 years with 2 different design firms, I learnt some design as well. Photoshop & Flash, but also just what makes a site look and work nice, typefaces, white space and stuff like that. I think this gives me a slight advantage when it comes to getting a job, I can do front and backend stuff... As I am proving with my current project... Which I'll tell you guys more about soon as it is launched.
> Cost is a hard one to determine... there are models, and
> there is history... the boom caused problems, especially > with firms charging the earth for their sites...
Also true. But I think there are lots of companies out there not charging enough and then not being able to afford to grow as a company, or afford enough staff / hardware to support their growing client base.
> there are firms out there who are only interested in
> making shed loads... these are the ones who are loosing
> out!!
Yes, I think there have been some big casualties... anyone remember port80? Or flg21? Both had amazing client lists, but were either charging too much, taking too long on projects, or just not re-visiting clients to see if thier needs had changed or if they wanted an update to their site or whatever.
Too many "suits" jumped onto the bandwagon in the middle of the boom. They didn't understand the technology or the process of making web sites, but they thought they would give it a go anyway.... ooerrr... I'm ranting now aren't I?
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