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Discuss.
Perl offers immense power, and some really quite excellent modules. However, it's hard to use, a bit slow, and was never developed for the Internet.
PHP however was. It's also fast, very easy to learn and intergrates with Apache and HTML very well. It also boasts Internet-specific functions, such as striptags(). On the other hand, it doesn't quite have the same power as perl and it may be complex and difficult to build very powerful web apps.
It's about time we had a debate. I want at least one zealot for each side!
Perl offers immense power, and some really quite excellent modules. However, it's hard to use, a bit slow, and was never developed for the Internet.
PHP however was. It's also fast, very easy to learn and intergrates with Apache and HTML very well. It also boasts Internet-specific functions, such as striptags(). On the other hand, it doesn't quite have the same power as perl and it may be complex and difficult to build very powerful web apps.
It's about time we had a debate. I want at least one zealot for each side!
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Funky gamer.
I have sitting on my desk, 3 CDs of GNU/Linux Debian. Now, it's not Unix (GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix) but it could EASILY be used as a server. In fact, many servers run Red Hat Linux which is possibly one of the worst distributions out there. Debian is, apparently, one of the best. This CD cost me nothing, but it originally cost £5, for the actual CD + p&p. It's actually, *illegal* to sell any product that comes under the GNU liscense.
Debian is great. You want to know why it's great? APT. APT is a little program that installs programs on Debian. Literally, if I wanted an Apache server, I would type "apt-get install apache". If I wanted PHP and MySQL with it I would type "apt-get install apache php4 mysql". This would download the latest version according to your system (stable, unstable or testing) and install it all for you, absolutely free, because it is *all* opensource and a lot of it is GNU.
So, I could, extremely legally, copy these CDs, give them to Bob, and he could install them on 50 machines. From there (using his Freeola backbone) he could install every single program he could ever need to run a viable server environment and it would cost him is absolutely nothing, at all. Even if you used Red Hat it would cost very little.
I have sitting on my desk, 3 CDs of GNU/Linux Debian. Now, it's not Unix (GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix) but it could EASILY be used as a server. In fact, many servers run Red Hat Linux which is possibly one of the worst distributions out there. Debian is, apparently, one of the best. This CD cost me nothing, but it originally cost £5, for the actual CD + p&p. It's actually, *illegal* to sell any product that comes under the GNU liscense.
Debian is great. You want to know why it's great? APT. APT is a little program that installs programs on Debian. Literally, if I wanted an Apache server, I would type "apt-get install apache". If I wanted PHP and MySQL with it I would type "apt-get install apache php4 mysql". This would download the latest version according to your system (stable, unstable or testing) and install it all for you, absolutely free, because it is *all* opensource and a lot of it is GNU.
So, I could, extremely legally, copy these CDs, give them to Bob, and he could install them on 50 machines. From there (using his Freeola backbone) he could install every single program he could ever need to run a viable server environment and it would cost him is absolutely nothing, at all. Even if you used Red Hat it would cost very little.
So. You think you can gang up against ASP eh?
OK. ASP is slower then PHP / PERL - fair enough. But what about the new .NET stuff. It is compiled forchristssake.
Also. Any MS product has what you call the "Coveryourass" policy. Which basically means, most financial bosses who have hold of the purse strings in companies, do not know what Unix is. But they have heard of MS. So if MS do a server, that the boss has heard of, but they know absolutely nothing about Unix. They will go for an MS product every time. In other words, they will cover their own against something going wrong.
MS is a globally recognised corporation. Rightly or wrongly, people perceive "free" software as being inferior, they trust that if they spend enough money, problems become smaller, and with the MS model of business, this is true!
Bob. I don't for one second believe that the entire SR / freeola operation runs from a single copy of a £40 OS.
I'm talking about end-to-end integration here now... What finance system do you use? What backup systems do you use? Are these all Unix based? Proxy servers, firewalls, yadda yadda, they probably are not all MS products, but there are plenty of people out there who need the tight integration that MS offers, along with the support system the MS operates.
And I still maintain that MS servers are easier to use than *nix.
OK. ASP is slower then PHP / PERL - fair enough. But what about the new .NET stuff. It is compiled forchristssake.
Also. Any MS product has what you call the "Coveryourass" policy. Which basically means, most financial bosses who have hold of the purse strings in companies, do not know what Unix is. But they have heard of MS. So if MS do a server, that the boss has heard of, but they know absolutely nothing about Unix. They will go for an MS product every time. In other words, they will cover their own
MS is a globally recognised corporation. Rightly or wrongly, people perceive "free" software as being inferior, they trust that if they spend enough money, problems become smaller, and with the MS model of business, this is true!
Bob. I don't for one second believe that the entire SR / freeola operation runs from a single copy of a £40 OS.
I'm talking about end-to-end integration here now... What finance system do you use? What backup systems do you use? Are these all Unix based? Proxy servers, firewalls, yadda yadda, they probably are not all MS products, but there are plenty of people out there who need the tight integration that MS offers, along with the support system the MS operates.
And I still maintain that MS servers are easier to use than *nix.
I have to agree with you turbo. We use PHP for all web based systems and it can do almost anything with the right plugins but perl is better for server tasks. The problem I have found with perl and apache is the speed. It is so slow and also uses up more processor time. PHP is optimized for the web and so is quick and dosent have eronious code which perl does.
As for ASP it is useless in two ways. One it is slower then PHP with more complicated database functions and two you have to have an IIS server for it to run well. These cost money and whatever microsoft say about linux being more expensive then windows (yes they have claimed this today) I still find buying one copy of an OS for £40 a year ago and installing it on all my servers a lot cheaper then £500-600 pound a server licence for 2k plus the IIS licences and the other stuff you need.
As for ASP it is useless in two ways. One it is slower then PHP with more complicated database functions and two you have to have an IIS server for it to run well. These cost money and whatever microsoft say about linux being more expensive then windows (yes they have claimed this today) I still find buying one copy of an OS for £40 a year ago and installing it on all my servers a lot cheaper then £500-600 pound a server licence for 2k plus the IIS licences and the other stuff you need.
Perl is good for Unix adminitstration, and that's what it was built for. However, when it comes to web stuff, it's not that great.
However, I do use a perl script (that I wrote) for auto-uploading screenshots.
However, I do use a perl script (that I wrote) for auto-uploading screenshots.
Turbonutter wrote:
> Hmm, I wonder what those could be..
TCL (not even with the TK bit!) - Beats PERL & PHP & ASP !!!
Hehehe. This is like console wars n'est 'pas?
Seriously though. As I have said before, it is horses for courses.
IMHO using ASP in conjunction with an MS based web server works a treat, and using PERL (and PHP, though I ain't used PHP) on a *nix machine is good to.
> Hmm, I wonder what those could be..
TCL (not even with the TK bit!) - Beats PERL & PHP & ASP !!!
Hehehe. This is like console wars n'est 'pas?
Seriously though. As I have said before, it is horses for courses.
IMHO using ASP in conjunction with an MS based web server works a treat, and using PERL (and PHP, though I ain't used PHP) on a *nix machine is good to.
Hmm, I wonder what those could be..
PHP and Perl are both great tools.. but originally built for very different jobs.
Perl + CGI is strong for dynamic websites, but PHP is stronger. For UNIX admin where bash/tsh isn't enough, they're incomparable. Perl wins.
On the point about Perl being "slow".. for what it does, I think it's bloody good. If you want sheer speed, code in C. If you want the ease of use of regexp and a thousand built in functions, use Perl.
use Perl;
Heh.
I've more experience with Perl, so naturally I'd choose it if I had the choice. But that's just a personal opinion. I'm grateful we have the choice, and that both are available. IMHO both beat the pants off many commercial "equivalents".
Perl + CGI is strong for dynamic websites, but PHP is stronger. For UNIX admin where bash/tsh isn't enough, they're incomparable. Perl wins.
On the point about Perl being "slow".. for what it does, I think it's bloody good. If you want sheer speed, code in C. If you want the ease of use of regexp and a thousand built in functions, use Perl.
use Perl;
Heh.
I've more experience with Perl, so naturally I'd choose it if I had the choice. But that's just a personal opinion. I'm grateful we have the choice, and that both are available. IMHO both beat the pants off many commercial "equivalents".
Erm, anyone who does decide to inform Chris on ASP, can you not do it in this thread, cheers :)
Practical Extradition and Reporting Language refers to Perl's quite marvelous pattern matching, called REGEXs, functions. However, PHP copies them exactly.
I must say, Perl is quite good for *nix administration, for which it was built. All you need to do is put #!/usr/bin/perl at the start of your script and `chmod +x` it. However, I've now found out I can do it with PHP (#!/usr/lib/php -q) so I sometimes use that, just because it's much more familliar to me.
Practical Extradition and Reporting Language refers to Perl's quite marvelous pattern matching, called REGEXs, functions. However, PHP copies them exactly.
I must say, Perl is quite good for *nix administration, for which it was built. All you need to do is put #!/usr/bin/perl at the start of your script and `chmod +x` it. However, I've now found out I can do it with PHP (#!/usr/lib/php -q) so I sometimes use that, just because it's much more familliar to me.
Oh and another PHP plus ... easy mySQL coding :o)
... IF Freeola ever get around to supporting it ..... I'm getting very impatient Andrew
... IF Freeola ever get around to supporting it ..... I'm getting very impatient Andrew
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