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Remember when the Gamecube's spec.s were announced?
The 12 million poly's compared to the PS2's 70 million?
This was followed with a quick note that the PS2's count was technical stats, while the Gamecube's 6-12 mil was based around estimated games performance.
So why wasn't the PS2's stats based around games performance?
And why wasn't the Gamecube's reading the technical stats?
That's because these values were impossible to judge.
The systems has been designed in completely different ways.
The Gamecube's stats were clearly of better use to the devellopers as it gave them a better performance estimation.
I.E.
In usual conditions (relatively basic AI, special effects, etc), it would throw around 12 million polygons.
If you put the AI, special technique, etc on full, then it went down to 6 million per second.
These calculations were vital as it made it easier for the develloper to know how much they could cram into a game before the performance suffers (I.E. no more slowdown! Wehey!).
Such calculations are much, much more complex on the PS2 and Xbox and involve a lot of guesswork.
The Gamecube's different hardware sections were designed to work together making it easier to calculate how much one factor affects another.
This is partly why for most devellopers, the Gamecube is a dream to work with.
It also means they can toy with it, knowing how far they can go in certain directions, and knowing what sacrifices they need to make as a result.
On other systems this takes complex caculations with a lot of trial and error.
Look at Perfect Dark on the N64.
Even the programming masters at Rare failed to optimise the multiplayer so that polygon+AI simulants could work through 4 player split screen.
With the Gamecube, they'll find it a piece of cake, dumbing down the visuals enough to keep things running at a smooth 60FPS.
And you can see that devellopers are enjoying pushing their games in certain directions.
Take Rogue Leader and Resident Evil.
Notice how these two are the best looking games on the cube right now?
Is it a coincidence that they're very cinematic?
These games focus on the sound and graphics to produce an effective atmosphere, trying to be as much like a film as possible.
The Gameplay hasn't suffered as a result, but you can tell that other area's of the processing has been dumbed down in favour of the graphics and lighting effects.
Pikmin on the other hand is based around AI, with 100 individual Pikmin to control and lots of enemies, hazards, operating at once.
The graphics are still very nice, but you can tell that this game is geared towards AI while Rogue Leader is based towards media.
There's Sega's Monkey Ball.
They used the Gamecube's maths capabilties for physics.
Smash Brothers Melee has clearly used most of the power for character.
The gameplay is 2D, the backgrounds are relatively sparse, the but the characters and moves are as detailed and well animated as anything.
This suits a game based on Nintendo characters.
Luigi's Mansion also put a lot into character as well.
What will be interesting is when a develloper uses all aspects to the best the Gamecube can manage.
Slick graphics with strong character, complex AI and anything else the little box can do.
Who knows what Shigsy has in mind with Mario and Zelda...
The 12 million poly's compared to the PS2's 70 million?
This was followed with a quick note that the PS2's count was technical stats, while the Gamecube's 6-12 mil was based around estimated games performance.
So why wasn't the PS2's stats based around games performance?
And why wasn't the Gamecube's reading the technical stats?
That's because these values were impossible to judge.
The systems has been designed in completely different ways.
The Gamecube's stats were clearly of better use to the devellopers as it gave them a better performance estimation.
I.E.
In usual conditions (relatively basic AI, special effects, etc), it would throw around 12 million polygons.
If you put the AI, special technique, etc on full, then it went down to 6 million per second.
These calculations were vital as it made it easier for the develloper to know how much they could cram into a game before the performance suffers (I.E. no more slowdown! Wehey!).
Such calculations are much, much more complex on the PS2 and Xbox and involve a lot of guesswork.
The Gamecube's different hardware sections were designed to work together making it easier to calculate how much one factor affects another.
This is partly why for most devellopers, the Gamecube is a dream to work with.
It also means they can toy with it, knowing how far they can go in certain directions, and knowing what sacrifices they need to make as a result.
On other systems this takes complex caculations with a lot of trial and error.
Look at Perfect Dark on the N64.
Even the programming masters at Rare failed to optimise the multiplayer so that polygon+AI simulants could work through 4 player split screen.
With the Gamecube, they'll find it a piece of cake, dumbing down the visuals enough to keep things running at a smooth 60FPS.
And you can see that devellopers are enjoying pushing their games in certain directions.
Take Rogue Leader and Resident Evil.
Notice how these two are the best looking games on the cube right now?
Is it a coincidence that they're very cinematic?
These games focus on the sound and graphics to produce an effective atmosphere, trying to be as much like a film as possible.
The Gameplay hasn't suffered as a result, but you can tell that other area's of the processing has been dumbed down in favour of the graphics and lighting effects.
Pikmin on the other hand is based around AI, with 100 individual Pikmin to control and lots of enemies, hazards, operating at once.
The graphics are still very nice, but you can tell that this game is geared towards AI while Rogue Leader is based towards media.
There's Sega's Monkey Ball.
They used the Gamecube's maths capabilties for physics.
Smash Brothers Melee has clearly used most of the power for character.
The gameplay is 2D, the backgrounds are relatively sparse, the but the characters and moves are as detailed and well animated as anything.
This suits a game based on Nintendo characters.
Luigi's Mansion also put a lot into character as well.
What will be interesting is when a develloper uses all aspects to the best the Gamecube can manage.
Slick graphics with strong character, complex AI and anything else the little box can do.
Who knows what Shigsy has in mind with Mario and Zelda...
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Reading a bit about Capcom and Mikami today.
Interesting to read that he believes the PS2's dominance will not last, and that he also dislikes the actual PS2 hardware. Fuelling rumours that capcom will completly jump ship to Nintendo.
Interesting to read that he believes the PS2's dominance will not last, and that he also dislikes the actual PS2 hardware. Fuelling rumours that capcom will completly jump ship to Nintendo.
Tony_Blair wrote:
> hate the idea that they are going to make the games easier for the bad gamers
Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion are supposed to be very short and easy. Their next games are Mario and Zelda. I'm worried about Zelda's length.
In reply to the topic:
Great post. The cloudchaser website said that was one of Nintendo's main flaws being too truthful about their specs. It makes it a lot easier for developers to know what they can actually do before making it and have to take out bits of the game.
I haven't seen much realism done yet, not the resident evil type but the GTA 3 or Shemnue kind.
> hate the idea that they are going to make the games easier for the bad gamers
Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion are supposed to be very short and easy. Their next games are Mario and Zelda. I'm worried about Zelda's length.
In reply to the topic:
Great post. The cloudchaser website said that was one of Nintendo's main flaws being too truthful about their specs. It makes it a lot easier for developers to know what they can actually do before making it and have to take out bits of the game.
I haven't seen much realism done yet, not the resident evil type but the GTA 3 or Shemnue kind.
Absolutely nothing to do with the topic, but I still agree with you.
Having said that, it's only Nintendo who's going soft.
There's plenty of second and third party devellopers to dish out the seriously challenging games.
Rare (Perfect Dark was solid), Factor 5 (Rogue Leader), Sega (Monkey Ball is meant to be REALLY difficult), etc.
And because it's so easy for these devellopers to lay down the graphics and game engine (thanks to the develloper friendly Gamecube hardware), they have less to worry about coding and can spend more time develloping the game in terms of level design and secrets and extra's.
That also means that the cube is unlikely to suffer from the same delays that plagued the "not-so-develloper-friendly" N64.
Having said that, it's only Nintendo who's going soft.
There's plenty of second and third party devellopers to dish out the seriously challenging games.
Rare (Perfect Dark was solid), Factor 5 (Rogue Leader), Sega (Monkey Ball is meant to be REALLY difficult), etc.
And because it's so easy for these devellopers to lay down the graphics and game engine (thanks to the develloper friendly Gamecube hardware), they have less to worry about coding and can spend more time develloping the game in terms of level design and secrets and extra's.
That also means that the cube is unlikely to suffer from the same delays that plagued the "not-so-develloper-friendly" N64.
hate the idea that they are going to make the games easier for the bad gamers
It will be interesting to see what will happen with the games. As Nintendo have made it easy to develop for, not just their machine but also other consoles (to persuade more companies to make games for Nintendo's console). Because of this we may see more games going to all the consoles as well as Nintendo's, but how well will they convert because of the way the Gamecube hardware and stat’s are laid out! Will games that run great on the Gamecube look bad on the PS2 because it can't handle all of the aspects at once as well as Gamecube?
I can't chose intil the Gamecube games are in the SR catalogue, but when they are, it'll either be Pikmin or Rogue Leader.
Hopefully that'll come before 3 months (90 days) are up...
With a bit of luck, I'll have enough GAD wins for both by then! :-)
So, does anyone want to discuss the topic?
Hopefully that'll come before 3 months (90 days) are up...
With a bit of luck, I'll have enough GAD wins for both by then! :-)
So, does anyone want to discuss the topic?
cool, dont see many winners come out of the Nintendo forum!
well done, if you get 1 more you'll be in the GAD hall of fame (just) so waht prize are you goona chose /have chosen?
slik ~_~
slik ~_~
Wehey!
Now this post has won a game, everyone else will read it.
POP!
Now this post has won a game, everyone else will read it.
POP!
Yeah. It would be good.
If N64 games had been looking like, and stuffed with as many ideas as Conker and Banjo Tooie from day one, then the console war with the PS might've been a whole different story.
This time round, devellopers will be almost pushing the limits on the Gamecube after the second year, rather than the fourth.
By then, they'll be so accustomed the easy to use GC hardware that they'll be finding first class games with completely new concepts easier to make on the Gamecube, than a sub standard generic clone on the PS2.
Yuji Naka, Yu Suzuki, hundreds of other top designers, all seem to agree.
But will their superiors let them design for a system that won't make them money?
Come on you damn dirty consumers!
Buy the GAMECUBE!
Do it for the poor designers who slave over making our games!
Make their life a more enjoyable one!
:-)
If N64 games had been looking like, and stuffed with as many ideas as Conker and Banjo Tooie from day one, then the console war with the PS might've been a whole different story.
This time round, devellopers will be almost pushing the limits on the Gamecube after the second year, rather than the fourth.
By then, they'll be so accustomed the easy to use GC hardware that they'll be finding first class games with completely new concepts easier to make on the Gamecube, than a sub standard generic clone on the PS2.
Yuji Naka, Yu Suzuki, hundreds of other top designers, all seem to agree.
But will their superiors let them design for a system that won't make them money?
Come on you damn dirty consumers!
Buy the GAMECUBE!
Do it for the poor designers who slave over making our games!
Make their life a more enjoyable one!
:-)
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