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Why is is that all the heros in games are usually big, muscular white blokes with unlimited supplies of ammo?
I have yet to play a "realistic" game where a person of minority ethnic origin is the main character. I'm not talking Mario jumping about on platforms, I'm talking those real-life type games, where you take on a role of a real person and stick to it.
There are plenty of Japanese or American characters, a few British (Lara Croft maybe), but what about African? Indian? Aboriginal? Surely we will open up new playing experiences if we start to include the character and culture of these races in our games?
I'm not saying developers are being deliberately racist, not at all, it's just playing the same stereotypes can be boring, uninspiring, and dull to be honest.
Discuss...
I have yet to play a "realistic" game where a person of minority ethnic origin is the main character. I'm not talking Mario jumping about on platforms, I'm talking those real-life type games, where you take on a role of a real person and stick to it.
There are plenty of Japanese or American characters, a few British (Lara Croft maybe), but what about African? Indian? Aboriginal? Surely we will open up new playing experiences if we start to include the character and culture of these races in our games?
I'm not saying developers are being deliberately racist, not at all, it's just playing the same stereotypes can be boring, uninspiring, and dull to be honest.
Discuss...
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Goatboy wrote:
> I thought Steven Dorff.
That's Worf from Star Trek!
> I thought Steven Dorff.
That's Worf from Star Trek!
If I ask you who played the lead role in the
>
> movie Blade, no doubt you would answer with Wesley Snipes. Did you
> remember
> that because he's black?
Actually, the first thing I thought
> was "big black guy" !
---
I thought Steven Dorff.
>
> movie Blade, no doubt you would answer with Wesley Snipes. Did you
> remember
> that because he's black?
Actually, the first thing I thought
> was "big black guy" !
---
I thought Steven Dorff.
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> Ah, right. So there are a lot of walking Egyptian platforms and
> floating platforms where you live, are there? ;-)
Hehehe, Bunny Fastard! I meant in a general way, ;)
> Exactly my point - you can't put
> "minorities" in games without someone slamming them as being
> 'stereotypical' in some way. Strangely, some black guys to still wear afros,
> and have their own way of speaking. But use such things in a game/movie and -
> usually - pay the consequences.
Good point, but I say it would be easier for a the games world to start to break out of this stereotypical stuff than, say, the movie industry.
> Okay. So take something like Soldier of Fortune. That game has been
> attacked in some quarters for portraying Arabs as terrorists in certain
> missions. However, while it certainly does not mean that all Arabs are
> terrorists, recent world events show that such groups certainly do exist - so
> why deny it in a game?
Interesting you should mention that game. Aparently, when you target an Arab civilian, your scope sight lights up red to show that person is a valid target, does the scope sight do that when you point your gun at , say, your own team mates? If not, why not?
> In general, I'd agree -
> but it's something that's never likely to happen, simply because the public
> opinion would never accept it. Although the games industry has rocketed to a
> status never before seen, the general public still don't understand the
> industry.
> The general public needs to be educated
> that games are a reflection of society, and not the cause of its
> troubles.
Thats is a great point!
The actual size
> of Lara's boobs was initially, believe it or not, an accident. A slip of the
> mouse artificially enlarged them during the design stage. So, although it was
> no doubt used as a marketing ploy, it wasn't designed that way to begin
> with.
Yeah. Right. A slip of the mouse, the first time maybe, but the rest??
> A good point. But the fact is that
> their primary aim is to make money, and so they aren't likely to do anything
> which would adversley affect the sales of their software.
Damned developers!
It could be argued
> that the games industry works differently to other industries, though. A lot of
> the time, a game will sell twice as many copies if it is believed to have
> 'dubious' content, or aspects that 'parents won't like'. However, developers
> only seem willing to play that card occasionally.
Yeh, Like GTA.
> Remembering these characters is no different to
> remembering that Lara Croft is a white female with big boobs, Sonic is a blue
> hedgehog, or that Mario is a fat Italian plumber. It's just there in my memory,
> and wasn't remembered for any particular reason - be that skin colour or whether
> they were good or bad games.
But you said you didn't car what you played as, yet you seem to take a lot of notice..
If I ask you who played the lead role in the
> movie Blade, no doubt you would answer with Wesley Snipes. Did you remember
> that because he's black?
Actually, the first thing I thought was "big black guy" !
> Ah, right. So there are a lot of walking Egyptian platforms and
> floating platforms where you live, are there? ;-)
Hehehe, Bunny Fastard! I meant in a general way, ;)
> Exactly my point - you can't put
> "minorities" in games without someone slamming them as being
> 'stereotypical' in some way. Strangely, some black guys to still wear afros,
> and have their own way of speaking. But use such things in a game/movie and -
> usually - pay the consequences.
Good point, but I say it would be easier for a the games world to start to break out of this stereotypical stuff than, say, the movie industry.
> Okay. So take something like Soldier of Fortune. That game has been
> attacked in some quarters for portraying Arabs as terrorists in certain
> missions. However, while it certainly does not mean that all Arabs are
> terrorists, recent world events show that such groups certainly do exist - so
> why deny it in a game?
Interesting you should mention that game. Aparently, when you target an Arab civilian, your scope sight lights up red to show that person is a valid target, does the scope sight do that when you point your gun at , say, your own team mates? If not, why not?
> In general, I'd agree -
> but it's something that's never likely to happen, simply because the public
> opinion would never accept it. Although the games industry has rocketed to a
> status never before seen, the general public still don't understand the
> industry.
> The general public needs to be educated
> that games are a reflection of society, and not the cause of its
> troubles.
Thats is a great point!
The actual size
> of Lara's boobs was initially, believe it or not, an accident. A slip of the
> mouse artificially enlarged them during the design stage. So, although it was
> no doubt used as a marketing ploy, it wasn't designed that way to begin
> with.
Yeah. Right. A slip of the mouse, the first time maybe, but the rest??
> A good point. But the fact is that
> their primary aim is to make money, and so they aren't likely to do anything
> which would adversley affect the sales of their software.
Damned developers!
It could be argued
> that the games industry works differently to other industries, though. A lot of
> the time, a game will sell twice as many copies if it is believed to have
> 'dubious' content, or aspects that 'parents won't like'. However, developers
> only seem willing to play that card occasionally.
Yeh, Like GTA.
> Remembering these characters is no different to
> remembering that Lara Croft is a white female with big boobs, Sonic is a blue
> hedgehog, or that Mario is a fat Italian plumber. It's just there in my memory,
> and wasn't remembered for any particular reason - be that skin colour or whether
> they were good or bad games.
But you said you didn't car what you played as, yet you seem to take a lot of notice..
If I ask you who played the lead role in the
> movie Blade, no doubt you would answer with Wesley Snipes. Did you remember
> that because he's black?
Actually, the first thing I thought was "big black guy" !
Armatige Shanks wrote:
> This discussion has been made before...
It generally
> end up with everyone agreeing that games arnt recist at all...
Just as a
> note... how many big name Aborigine actors are there? ... If computer games are
> racist then so is Hollywood, TV, NewsPapers, etc...
Hmmm, whilst Hollywood is unlikely to provide us with a big name Aboriginal actor, there is no reason why a fictitious Aboriginal person could not be invented for a game.
> This discussion has been made before...
It generally
> end up with everyone agreeing that games arnt recist at all...
Just as a
> note... how many big name Aborigine actors are there? ... If computer games are
> racist then so is Hollywood, TV, NewsPapers, etc...
Hmmm, whilst Hollywood is unlikely to provide us with a big name Aboriginal actor, there is no reason why a fictitious Aboriginal person could not be invented for a game.
funkygamer wrote:
> It is meant to represent real world dynamics and stuff...
Ah, right. So there are a lot of walking Egyptian platforms and floating platforms where you live, are there? ;-)
> What, another 2 or 3 maybe... And
> anyway, the black guys will have the old sterotypical afros in them, very
> original
Exactly my point - you can't put "minorities" in games without someone slamming them as being 'stereotypical' in some way. Strangely, some black guys to still wear afros, and have their own way of speaking. But use such things in a game/movie and - usually - pay the consequences.
> We want games to be realistic (well some games at least), many
> games or sold on the basis that they have "realistic" environments and
> scenarios, yet they do not realisticall represent the true spread of people in
> the gaming community, alright
Okay. So take something like Soldier of Fortune. That game has been attacked in some quarters for portraying Arabs as terrorists in certain missions. However, while it certainly does not mean that all Arabs are terrorists, recent world events show that such groups certainly do exist - so why deny it in a game?
I'm all for the diversity that you mention, but it's a fact that whenever it is tried, there is usually some kind of backlash against it.
> I haven't played GTA3, but I have played
> GTA, and you could select a black character if you wanted... What is the problem
> with that?
As far as I'm concerned, there is no problem with that whatsoever. As I said earlier, you know as well as I do that there would have been a backlash about portraying a 20-something black man as a violent criminal. As far as I'm concerned, all races are equally capable of committing such crimes - I don't see why it should be considered any more wrong or negative to portray a black man in such a role than a white man. You'll need to ask the PC-brigade about that one!
> would it be better if games let you build your own character, no
> matter what colour / creed / sex you wanted to be?
In some games, yes it would. In others where a story has been carefully thought out, it wouldn't necessarily benefit.
> It is about time the industry took a few stands on this kind of thing, don't you
> think?
In general, I'd agree - but it's something that's never likely to happen, simply because the public opinion would never accept it. Although the games industry has rocketed to a status never before seen, the general public still don't understand the industry.
Thanks to all the negative publicity in the media, such games are seen as negative and corrupting, and people refuse to believe that something like GTA3 can be enjoyed simply as a form of entertainment without corrupting the minds of anyone who touches them. The general public needs to be educated that games are a reflection of society, and not the cause of its troubles.
> Even Lara Croft has been attacked by womens
> groups for
> her 'full figure' etc.
> Are you saying that wasn't a fair comment? I think
> we could all agree that the major differences between the Tomb Raider games are
> the size of Ms. Crofts bosom.
The actual size of Lara's boobs was initially, believe it or not, an accident. A slip of the mouse artificially enlarged them during the design stage. So, although it was no doubt used as a marketing ploy, it wasn't designed that way to begin with.
> Should developers be sticking with the safe bets? We
> continually ask them to produce original games,
> but how can they really if they have to limit themselves like this?
A good point. But the fact is that their primary aim is to make money, and so they aren't likely to do anything which would adversley affect the sales of their software.
It could be argued that the games industry works differently to other industries, though. A lot of the time, a game will sell twice as many copies if it is believed to have 'dubious' content, or aspects that 'parents won't like'. However, developers only seem willing to play that card occasionally.
> Then you go on to name 3 games with
> minority characters, when you said it never enters your mind!
As I said, noticing and caring are two different things. I recall the games because I'm interested in videogames and pay attention to the reviews and other games-related media. Remembering these characters is no different to remembering that Lara Croft is a white female with big boobs, Sonic is a blue hedgehog, or that Mario is a fat Italian plumber. It's just there in my memory, and wasn't remembered for any particular reason - be that skin colour or whether they were good or bad games.
If I ask you who played the lead role in the movie Blade, no doubt you would answer with Wesley Snipes. Did you remember that because he's black?
Didn't think so!
> It is meant to represent real world dynamics and stuff...
Ah, right. So there are a lot of walking Egyptian platforms and floating platforms where you live, are there? ;-)
> What, another 2 or 3 maybe... And
> anyway, the black guys will have the old sterotypical afros in them, very
> original
Exactly my point - you can't put "minorities" in games without someone slamming them as being 'stereotypical' in some way. Strangely, some black guys to still wear afros, and have their own way of speaking. But use such things in a game/movie and - usually - pay the consequences.
> We want games to be realistic (well some games at least), many
> games or sold on the basis that they have "realistic" environments and
> scenarios, yet they do not realisticall represent the true spread of people in
> the gaming community, alright
Okay. So take something like Soldier of Fortune. That game has been attacked in some quarters for portraying Arabs as terrorists in certain missions. However, while it certainly does not mean that all Arabs are terrorists, recent world events show that such groups certainly do exist - so why deny it in a game?
I'm all for the diversity that you mention, but it's a fact that whenever it is tried, there is usually some kind of backlash against it.
> I haven't played GTA3, but I have played
> GTA, and you could select a black character if you wanted... What is the problem
> with that?
As far as I'm concerned, there is no problem with that whatsoever. As I said earlier, you know as well as I do that there would have been a backlash about portraying a 20-something black man as a violent criminal. As far as I'm concerned, all races are equally capable of committing such crimes - I don't see why it should be considered any more wrong or negative to portray a black man in such a role than a white man. You'll need to ask the PC-brigade about that one!
> would it be better if games let you build your own character, no
> matter what colour / creed / sex you wanted to be?
In some games, yes it would. In others where a story has been carefully thought out, it wouldn't necessarily benefit.
> It is about time the industry took a few stands on this kind of thing, don't you
> think?
In general, I'd agree - but it's something that's never likely to happen, simply because the public opinion would never accept it. Although the games industry has rocketed to a status never before seen, the general public still don't understand the industry.
Thanks to all the negative publicity in the media, such games are seen as negative and corrupting, and people refuse to believe that something like GTA3 can be enjoyed simply as a form of entertainment without corrupting the minds of anyone who touches them. The general public needs to be educated that games are a reflection of society, and not the cause of its troubles.
> Even Lara Croft has been attacked by womens
> groups for
> her 'full figure' etc.
> Are you saying that wasn't a fair comment? I think
> we could all agree that the major differences between the Tomb Raider games are
> the size of Ms. Crofts bosom.
The actual size of Lara's boobs was initially, believe it or not, an accident. A slip of the mouse artificially enlarged them during the design stage. So, although it was no doubt used as a marketing ploy, it wasn't designed that way to begin with.
> Should developers be sticking with the safe bets? We
> continually ask them to produce original games,
> but how can they really if they have to limit themselves like this?
A good point. But the fact is that their primary aim is to make money, and so they aren't likely to do anything which would adversley affect the sales of their software.
It could be argued that the games industry works differently to other industries, though. A lot of the time, a game will sell twice as many copies if it is believed to have 'dubious' content, or aspects that 'parents won't like'. However, developers only seem willing to play that card occasionally.
> Then you go on to name 3 games with
> minority characters, when you said it never enters your mind!
As I said, noticing and caring are two different things. I recall the games because I'm interested in videogames and pay attention to the reviews and other games-related media. Remembering these characters is no different to remembering that Lara Croft is a white female with big boobs, Sonic is a blue hedgehog, or that Mario is a fat Italian plumber. It's just there in my memory, and wasn't remembered for any particular reason - be that skin colour or whether they were good or bad games.
If I ask you who played the lead role in the movie Blade, no doubt you would answer with Wesley Snipes. Did you remember that because he's black?
Didn't think so!
I wouldn't call it rascism it's just that a white superhero appeals more to a wider market....oh hang isn't there a game on the Dreamcast i think where there's a black female copper, you know the game with the dodgy controls..anyway thats one example but if you think about it lil' kiddies are being brought up believing that the white man is stronger than the black man and thats not true i'd rather go into a fight against a white man than a black man!!!
Live the Dream
Live the Dream
There's no such thing as Racism in Games...
Don't be so stupid....
You think that if any game were at all racist, it'd be allowed to be sold? Hell no...
Game
Don't be so stupid....
You think that if any game were at all racist, it'd be allowed to be sold? Hell no...
Game
funkygamer wrote:
> I can't believe no-one is bothered about this subject, one way or another!
This discussion has been made before...
It generally end up with everyone agreeing that games arnt recist at all...
Just as a note... how many big name Aborigine actors are there? ... If computer games are racist then so is Hollywood, TV, NewsPapers, etc...
> I can't believe no-one is bothered about this subject, one way or another!
This discussion has been made before...
It generally end up with everyone agreeing that games arnt recist at all...
Just as a note... how many big name Aborigine actors are there? ... If computer games are racist then so is Hollywood, TV, NewsPapers, etc...
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