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At present all 'offenders' have their human rights protected by European and UK law.
For those who have taken away other people's human rights in abuse, murder or other serious offences, is this right?
There are several arguements for and against which constantly crop up in these sort of discussions:
FOR Human Rights
If we act as the offender has acted then we are as bad as the offender. Likewise, a death penalty would condone killing for a murderer.
It doesn't matter if the offence is serious or not, all prisoners should be treated the same and there is always the chance that they have been wrongly convicted.
AGAINST Human Rights
If prison is not harsh enough then offenders will not have a reason to stop offending, they know that they are going to somewhere that will be comfortable and guarantee a hot meal. In fact, some may offend just to get in to prison and provide a better life.
The grey area:
The biggest grey area here is probably the mental, and to some extents the physical status of the offender. Should we look closer at where they are 'in their right mind' and then what should happen to those serious offenders who are a danger or (even more of a grey area) may later provide a danger to the public.
For those who have taken away other people's human rights in abuse, murder or other serious offences, is this right?
There are several arguements for and against which constantly crop up in these sort of discussions:
FOR Human Rights
If we act as the offender has acted then we are as bad as the offender. Likewise, a death penalty would condone killing for a murderer.
It doesn't matter if the offence is serious or not, all prisoners should be treated the same and there is always the chance that they have been wrongly convicted.
AGAINST Human Rights
If prison is not harsh enough then offenders will not have a reason to stop offending, they know that they are going to somewhere that will be comfortable and guarantee a hot meal. In fact, some may offend just to get in to prison and provide a better life.
The grey area:
The biggest grey area here is probably the mental, and to some extents the physical status of the offender. Should we look closer at where they are 'in their right mind' and then what should happen to those serious offenders who are a danger or (even more of a grey area) may later provide a danger to the public.
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C'mon pb - you posed the questions but didn't give your views!
Little more clarification. Although I believe criminals should lose their human rights I do believe that we still have a duty of care for them. I think that education and community services are a good thing. However I do believe that prison these days can seem to be a soft option to some, especially when you consider that you are allowed to take certain personal items inside with you.
I would be horrified and terrified if I did something stupid and ended up in prison. I would miss my freedom and all the little luxuries in life that I take for granted. There are people who have so little that a roof over their head, food, water, clean clothes and being taken care of are luxuries but that is a reflection on our society not our prisons.
I admit to being quite uneducated when it comes to our prisons and laws. My views are formed from hearing snippets of news and my personal reactions to some of the things I hear.
You get money when you leave prison?
Little more clarification. Although I believe criminals should lose their human rights I do believe that we still have a duty of care for them. I think that education and community services are a good thing. However I do believe that prison these days can seem to be a soft option to some, especially when you consider that you are allowed to take certain personal items inside with you.
I would be horrified and terrified if I did something stupid and ended up in prison. I would miss my freedom and all the little luxuries in life that I take for granted. There are people who have so little that a roof over their head, food, water, clean clothes and being taken care of are luxuries but that is a reflection on our society not our prisons.
I admit to being quite uneducated when it comes to our prisons and laws. My views are formed from hearing snippets of news and my personal reactions to some of the things I hear.
You get money when you leave prison?
I agree with most of it, but disagree with the Death Penalty.
If it's purely for keeping people from committing crime it doesn't work. Look at the US and other countries that still have it.
And what happens with those cases where a seemingly open and shut case has turned out that the prisoner wasn't actually the right person in the end, how do you then bring them back from the dead?
With cases where we are almost certain or 100% sure (if that's ever possible) that the person is guilty then I think prison should mean prison, a strictly controlled place of solitary confinement where resources are limited to basics (food, bedding etc) for serious offences. THAT would be more likely to discourage people.
If it's purely for keeping people from committing crime it doesn't work. Look at the US and other countries that still have it.
And what happens with those cases where a seemingly open and shut case has turned out that the prisoner wasn't actually the right person in the end, how do you then bring them back from the dead?
With cases where we are almost certain or 100% sure (if that's ever possible) that the person is guilty then I think prison should mean prison, a strictly controlled place of solitary confinement where resources are limited to basics (food, bedding etc) for serious offences. THAT would be more likely to discourage people.
After forming my own views in this during a debate at work (and becoming Mr Unpopular for a good day or so) I was going to be very careful how I posted.
However, after reading Ineedsleep's post...I can't say I disagree with anything he has posted. Summed up pretty much all I needed to say!
However, after reading Ineedsleep's post...I can't say I disagree with anything he has posted. Summed up pretty much all I needed to say!
I say they shouldn't have human rights. I watched a programme recently about women in jail and they mostly go in so they get the cash when they come out. It's a disgrace.
Besides the offenders have damaged other peoples' lives so why should they get to have their human rights.
Besides the offenders have damaged other peoples' lives so why should they get to have their human rights.
That's a good point - very few people have a choice in where they live.
However, if they want rights, they must respect the rights of others.
If the point about wanting to live in our society has anything to do with immigration then I would suggest that's another topic for debate...
However, if they want rights, they must respect the rights of others.
If the point about wanting to live in our society has anything to do with immigration then I would suggest that's another topic for debate...
Sonic Chris wrote:
> But by agreeing to live in our society, you must obey the rules.
Be real, what are people gonna do? Live in international waters?
> But by agreeing to live in our society, you must obey the rules.
Be real, what are people gonna do? Live in international waters?
In the natural scheme of things, nobody has a right to judge anybody else.
But by agreeing to live in our society, you must obey the rules. As pointed out already, you forfeit your own rights when you get involved with somebody elses.
But by agreeing to live in our society, you must obey the rules. As pointed out already, you forfeit your own rights when you get involved with somebody elses.
>Ineedsleep wrote stuff.
At this point, I don't disagree with anything you've said!
At this point, I don't disagree with anything you've said!
pb wrote:
> For those who have taken away other people's human rights in
> abuse, murder or other serious offences, is this right?
It’s subjective to your own personal views. Mine err on the side of the victims not the offenders. People who commit serious offences should lose all human rights. The grey area then becomes what do you class as a serious offence? Where do you draw the line?
Also I am for the death penalty. That’s not to say that 24 hours after being found guilty you are shot but I feel my taxes could be put to better use then keeping a murderer imprisoned for life. Already that comment makes me wince as I remember a case several years ago of a man eventually being released after being wrongly convicted and spending many years in prison.
Human rights have gone the same way as Political Correctness and Health and Safety though – from the sublime to the ridiculous.
This inspired by the latest Ian Huntley episode? Now my comments over his recent compensation claims are not postable on here. There is no grey area here. He is guilty of murdering 2 innocents and therefore, in my opinion, deserves no human rights at all. He is trying to claim 80K in compensation? From our taxes? And just who the *%$^&*£” hell is going to pay his legal fees? Why does he need money anyway? He got a life imprisonment sentence handed to him by our legal system^^ Oh, aye, forgot for a moment that life isn’t life anymore - I just answered my own question which is a whole different kettle of fish.
See he is a perfect example of someone who deserves the death penalty. Either that or they need to move him to a prison where someone can do a better job of ridding society of him than his last two prisons.
> For those who have taken away other people's human rights in
> abuse, murder or other serious offences, is this right?
It’s subjective to your own personal views. Mine err on the side of the victims not the offenders. People who commit serious offences should lose all human rights. The grey area then becomes what do you class as a serious offence? Where do you draw the line?
Also I am for the death penalty. That’s not to say that 24 hours after being found guilty you are shot but I feel my taxes could be put to better use then keeping a murderer imprisoned for life. Already that comment makes me wince as I remember a case several years ago of a man eventually being released after being wrongly convicted and spending many years in prison.
Human rights have gone the same way as Political Correctness and Health and Safety though – from the sublime to the ridiculous.
This inspired by the latest Ian Huntley episode? Now my comments over his recent compensation claims are not postable on here. There is no grey area here. He is guilty of murdering 2 innocents and therefore, in my opinion, deserves no human rights at all. He is trying to claim 80K in compensation? From our taxes? And just who the *%$^&*£” hell is going to pay his legal fees? Why does he need money anyway? He got a life imprisonment sentence handed to him by our legal system^^ Oh, aye, forgot for a moment that life isn’t life anymore - I just answered my own question which is a whole different kettle of fish.
See he is a perfect example of someone who deserves the death penalty. Either that or they need to move him to a prison where someone can do a better job of ridding society of him than his last two prisons.
The same laws that apply outside of prison should also apply in prison.
However, why should someone who has taken life, raped, stole, attacked, etc, have any human rights? Surely, by taking the human rights of others (of safety, etc) they have forfeited their own?
A grey area for me would be when considering those who are later found to have been wrongly convicted - they shouldn't be in prison in the first place - but until innocence is proven, if they appear to be the guilty party, then the justice system are playing their part to try and protect the public. That's when the human rights arguments become more difficult...
However, why should someone who has taken life, raped, stole, attacked, etc, have any human rights? Surely, by taking the human rights of others (of safety, etc) they have forfeited their own?
A grey area for me would be when considering those who are later found to have been wrongly convicted - they shouldn't be in prison in the first place - but until innocence is proven, if they appear to be the guilty party, then the justice system are playing their part to try and protect the public. That's when the human rights arguments become more difficult...
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