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We'll take your average RPG game, Phantasy Star Online I and II as an example for this.
Using XBox Live, you pay £40 a year for the service plus £5.99 a month to play PSO. That's £111.88 a year just to play one game.
Using Gamecube, it's just £5.99 a month. That's £71.88 a year just to play one game.
It's not being released for the PS2 but the same would apply as Sony don't have a standing charge for their Networking service.
For your extra £40 a year on XBox live you do get some extras, like a consistent Gamer Tag and the ability to page others over the network no matter what game they're in (not sure if this will apply to PSO though because I think payments are made direct to Sega for the gametime). Is that £40 a year worth it when you consider that Sony and Nintendo still offer free online gaming for most of their titles?
Microsoft also take a large cut from game developers for allowing them to run games on their Live network, whereas the Sony and Nintendo network models give developers the choice of whether or not to support online service themselves.
In short, did Microsoft make a huge error on their choice of financial model for supporting their network?
Using XBox Live, you pay £40 a year for the service plus £5.99 a month to play PSO. That's £111.88 a year just to play one game.
Using Gamecube, it's just £5.99 a month. That's £71.88 a year just to play one game.
It's not being released for the PS2 but the same would apply as Sony don't have a standing charge for their Networking service.
For your extra £40 a year on XBox live you do get some extras, like a consistent Gamer Tag and the ability to page others over the network no matter what game they're in (not sure if this will apply to PSO though because I think payments are made direct to Sega for the gametime). Is that £40 a year worth it when you consider that Sony and Nintendo still offer free online gaming for most of their titles?
Microsoft also take a large cut from game developers for allowing them to run games on their Live network, whereas the Sony and Nintendo network models give developers the choice of whether or not to support online service themselves.
In short, did Microsoft make a huge error on their choice of financial model for supporting their network?
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Do MS not host games? Why not? That gives much better speeds doesn't it? My Online gaming knowledge is limited, I played Quake 3 online on my Dreamcast alot, and a bit round my friends, but thats it.
Slightly related- does anyone remember Deathrow? The futuristic violent team sports game released a while back. I really quite enjoyed the demo, so I bought the game and the carear mode was better than I expected. Anyway, SouthEnd, the developer behind the game are working on a new Xbox Live title, and rumer has it Deathrow 2 will be unvieled at E3. A perfect online game IMO.
Slightly related- does anyone remember Deathrow? The futuristic violent team sports game released a while back. I really quite enjoyed the demo, so I bought the game and the carear mode was better than I expected. Anyway, SouthEnd, the developer behind the game are working on a new Xbox Live title, and rumer has it Deathrow 2 will be unvieled at E3. A perfect online game IMO.
What I think Microsoft should do is run more dedicated servers for games. Also make servers which are for different languages and areas. In some 16 player games on Unreal I have seen lag. As this was still in the test Drive period I can put this to the servers being in America.
I tried XBox Live out on Sunday just gone to have a few games and to see who was online. When you use the network status screen and press Y you get the download rate and upload rate. My ping is always around 170ms. Now with Broadband this is very slow as going from me to the IP I connect to at my ISP it is 15ms. Can get 18ms to some Uk sites and around sub 20ms to Jolt which is a major online games server in the UK. Can get 100ms to US sites like Yahoo.
So 170ms must mean that its somewhere in the US. So for use European gamers they should think about setting up a UK site which offers good pings. They may already have UK or European servers if so how come the ping is so high.
I dont play online games on my PC but my friend got ADSL a few months ago so I normally spend a Saturday afternoon playing Raven Shield at his. Doing this I have come to realise how much better PC gaming is in terms of options and good fast servers. Ok so you don't have in game voice. But voice control isnt everything as I use to mute my mic alot as most people werent talking. Also you would get the person who would have the sound turned up to high so you could hear the echos of the game in your head set. Or you get lots of rubbish down the mic.
I really do hope Microsoft can upgrade XBox Live to a much better package. It is a good package when you first look at it as the voice option does work well in some situations. Gamertag, friends list and invite system is brilliant. Its just lower pings should be achieved on Broadband if the servers are in Europe. And Microsoft should provide a lot of dedicated servers for all XBox Live games which deal in all types of modes for each game. I think you still should be able to host games but Microsoft do need to host fast games themselves as not everyone can host 16 player games.
I tried XBox Live out on Sunday just gone to have a few games and to see who was online. When you use the network status screen and press Y you get the download rate and upload rate. My ping is always around 170ms. Now with Broadband this is very slow as going from me to the IP I connect to at my ISP it is 15ms. Can get 18ms to some Uk sites and around sub 20ms to Jolt which is a major online games server in the UK. Can get 100ms to US sites like Yahoo.
So 170ms must mean that its somewhere in the US. So for use European gamers they should think about setting up a UK site which offers good pings. They may already have UK or European servers if so how come the ping is so high.
I dont play online games on my PC but my friend got ADSL a few months ago so I normally spend a Saturday afternoon playing Raven Shield at his. Doing this I have come to realise how much better PC gaming is in terms of options and good fast servers. Ok so you don't have in game voice. But voice control isnt everything as I use to mute my mic alot as most people werent talking. Also you would get the person who would have the sound turned up to high so you could hear the echos of the game in your head set. Or you get lots of rubbish down the mic.
I really do hope Microsoft can upgrade XBox Live to a much better package. It is a good package when you first look at it as the voice option does work well in some situations. Gamertag, friends list and invite system is brilliant. Its just lower pings should be achieved on Broadband if the servers are in Europe. And Microsoft should provide a lot of dedicated servers for all XBox Live games which deal in all types of modes for each game. I think you still should be able to host games but Microsoft do need to host fast games themselves as not everyone can host 16 player games.
I was wondering myself what we're actually paying Microsoft money for, apart from the headset and demo disc, because as someone pointed out nearly every game is hosted on someone's console and not MS's servers.
Another MAJOR problem is that there are far too many kids on. Parents are buying it for them and then letting them loose on it. There was a reason why MS made it so you have to have a credit card to join up - age verification ( and online billing and chargeable content in the future ;) ).
I am totally sick of whiny kids on the network who around and generally wreck the whole experience far too often.
Another big problem, not so much for us, but for foreign players from Europe. Much to MS's probably surprise not everyone in Europe speaks English leading to a fair few games being played where not everyone on the game speaks the same language. This alienates people. There should be a way to chose to play against gamers in your own country - I've played a number of Ghost Recon games with German gamers who have bemoaned, in halting english, that they cannot just play German people.
Another problem, as Sav pointed out, drop outs. Ghost Recon and Mech Assault are prime offenders for this, time after time games crash out for no reason or on Ghost Recon they lock up.
Microsoft looked like they had 2nd place in the console competition sown up but with the Gamecube's recent antics I think they need to look again at Xbox Live and get it sorted, and convinve us all why we should pay a subscription fee next year.....
Another MAJOR problem is that there are far too many kids on. Parents are buying it for them and then letting them loose on it. There was a reason why MS made it so you have to have a credit card to join up - age verification ( and online billing and chargeable content in the future ;) ).
I am totally sick of whiny kids on the network who around and generally wreck the whole experience far too often.
Another big problem, not so much for us, but for foreign players from Europe. Much to MS's probably surprise not everyone in Europe speaks English leading to a fair few games being played where not everyone on the game speaks the same language. This alienates people. There should be a way to chose to play against gamers in your own country - I've played a number of Ghost Recon games with German gamers who have bemoaned, in halting english, that they cannot just play German people.
Another problem, as Sav pointed out, drop outs. Ghost Recon and Mech Assault are prime offenders for this, time after time games crash out for no reason or on Ghost Recon they lock up.
Microsoft looked like they had 2nd place in the console competition sown up but with the Gamecube's recent antics I think they need to look again at Xbox Live and get it sorted, and convinve us all why we should pay a subscription fee next year.....
beanz wrote:
> what's your gamertag adrian?
<--------- My gamertag is in my tag :)
> what's your gamertag adrian?
<--------- My gamertag is in my tag :)
what's your gamertag adrian?
Mantis wrote:
> I always said Return to Castle Wolfenstine rules online on PC, and it
> will on Xbox. Read this cool preview
>
> http://www.gamespy.com/previews/april03/wolfmulti/
>
> I could have stuck this anywhere, but seeing as you guys are loking
> for a reason to subscribe again next year, this could be it.
Looks good. I do want this game and have done now for ages. I think the trouble with XBox Live is that the majority of compatable games came out in November. After spending 3 hours a night on Unreal for a few weeks I began to tire of it a bit. Havent hardly played Ghost Recon online. I really do want to play online again but for some reason I dont.
Maybe if everyone organized a big tournament one Sunday night/afternoon we could all meet, play MechAssault, Unreal and Ghost Recon. Get me back into XBox Live gamming. What do you all say ??
> I always said Return to Castle Wolfenstine rules online on PC, and it
> will on Xbox. Read this cool preview
>
> http://www.gamespy.com/previews/april03/wolfmulti/
>
> I could have stuck this anywhere, but seeing as you guys are loking
> for a reason to subscribe again next year, this could be it.
Looks good. I do want this game and have done now for ages. I think the trouble with XBox Live is that the majority of compatable games came out in November. After spending 3 hours a night on Unreal for a few weeks I began to tire of it a bit. Havent hardly played Ghost Recon online. I really do want to play online again but for some reason I dont.
Maybe if everyone organized a big tournament one Sunday night/afternoon we could all meet, play MechAssault, Unreal and Ghost Recon. Get me back into XBox Live gamming. What do you all say ??
Mantis wrote:
> Why don't you add people to you friends lists who arn't nobs so plaing
> online is fun?
>
> And won't you stick around for Halo 2 online+ others?
Playing Online is fun, and my friends list isnt full of nobs as you put it. I think once Halo 2 is out I will be want to play it more. Its jut I have tons of Single player games I havent hardly played. I have 11 that are uncompleted. Like Final Fantasy 10 which I am about 7 hours through, and loads of other games where I am just still in the early stages.
> Why don't you add people to you friends lists who arn't nobs so plaing
> online is fun?
>
> And won't you stick around for Halo 2 online+ others?
Playing Online is fun, and my friends list isnt full of nobs as you put it. I think once Halo 2 is out I will be want to play it more. Its jut I have tons of Single player games I havent hardly played. I have 11 that are uncompleted. Like Final Fantasy 10 which I am about 7 hours through, and loads of other games where I am just still in the early stages.
I always said Return to Castle Wolfenstine rules online on PC, and it will on Xbox. Read this cool preview
http://www.gamespy.com/previews/april03/wolfmulti/
I could have stuck this anywhere, but seeing as you guys are loking for a reason to subscribe again next year, this could be it.
http://www.gamespy.com/previews/april03/wolfmulti/
I could have stuck this anywhere, but seeing as you guys are loking for a reason to subscribe again next year, this could be it.
Why don't you add people to you friends lists who arn't nobs so plaing online is fun?
And won't you stick around for Halo 2 online+ others?
And won't you stick around for Halo 2 online+ others?
FantasyMeister wrote:
> adrian wrote:
> I havent played XBox Live since Christmas. Basically because
> I just could'nt be bothered to set it up all the time.
>
> I see this said alot about XBox. Not having one myself I'm not sure
> what you mean though. Isn't your XBox permanently wired up to
> Broadband, or a router, or internet connection sharing with your PC,
> and then when you play a game you can either play offline or just
> select a menu option to play online?
Well I use ICS so I have to plug a cable in. Takes 2 seconds but I cant be bothered. I cant leave the cable in as the XBox is in another room.
As you have your PS2 online it is probably the same as that, but actually easier as XBox has the adaptor built in. If my XBox was in the same room then I would have it connected permantly but as it isnt I cant, unless I want to get my dad to run the cable throught the roof. If it was connected all the time then I maybe would use it more, even though it takes 2 seconds to set up the way I have it.
To be honest I dont play on many games now any way. Still only got about 40 mins into Resident Evil 0, around 7 hours into Metroid Prime. Level 3 of Splinter Cell and another 3 or 4 that havent been properly done yet. Also use my internet for downloading alot and sharing alot of stuff. I was on IRC in channels that you needed to serve for 96 hours per week to get FTP access. So of course with me being at Uni and not leaving my comp on while I was a sleep or at Uni meant every waking hour I was online and sharing. So I didnt really have any free upload to spare.
Maybe for me the novelty of XBox Live and online games has worn off. When I first got it I had the 2 demos which I wouldnt have bothered with but because of them being online I played them alot. Same when I got Mechassault and Unreal. Am enjoying playing a bit of Raven Shield online at a friends house on the PC.
Maybe when the summer comes I may spend more time on it as Uni takes up time as well as normal internet, TV, movies and single player games.
> adrian wrote:
> I havent played XBox Live since Christmas. Basically because
> I just could'nt be bothered to set it up all the time.
>
> I see this said alot about XBox. Not having one myself I'm not sure
> what you mean though. Isn't your XBox permanently wired up to
> Broadband, or a router, or internet connection sharing with your PC,
> and then when you play a game you can either play offline or just
> select a menu option to play online?
Well I use ICS so I have to plug a cable in. Takes 2 seconds but I cant be bothered. I cant leave the cable in as the XBox is in another room.
As you have your PS2 online it is probably the same as that, but actually easier as XBox has the adaptor built in. If my XBox was in the same room then I would have it connected permantly but as it isnt I cant, unless I want to get my dad to run the cable throught the roof. If it was connected all the time then I maybe would use it more, even though it takes 2 seconds to set up the way I have it.
To be honest I dont play on many games now any way. Still only got about 40 mins into Resident Evil 0, around 7 hours into Metroid Prime. Level 3 of Splinter Cell and another 3 or 4 that havent been properly done yet. Also use my internet for downloading alot and sharing alot of stuff. I was on IRC in channels that you needed to serve for 96 hours per week to get FTP access. So of course with me being at Uni and not leaving my comp on while I was a sleep or at Uni meant every waking hour I was online and sharing. So I didnt really have any free upload to spare.
Maybe for me the novelty of XBox Live and online games has worn off. When I first got it I had the 2 demos which I wouldnt have bothered with but because of them being online I played them alot. Same when I got Mechassault and Unreal. Am enjoying playing a bit of Raven Shield online at a friends house on the PC.
Maybe when the summer comes I may spend more time on it as Uni takes up time as well as normal internet, TV, movies and single player games.
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