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"I walked steadily over to him, with confidence and certainty in my face. I knew he wouldn't shoot. We'd been stood in the street for more than five minutes now, and I was sure I`d figured him out. He had a gun pointed at me, and he'd threatened many others with it already, but I knew he was only hot air, and no action."
-The thoughts of an innocent citizen trying to solve a dangerous situation on the streets.
"I watched another guy walk towards our assailent, and at first I wanted to shout and warn him to stay back, but then I saw his eyes. Never before had I seen such confidence and determination on a man's face. As he walked closer, I thought that perhaps he might be able to sort out this mess, but I soon regretted my earlier decision not to shout. Without warning, the man with the gun fired his weapon, and in an instant, the man who's expression had conveyed such enormous confidence fell to the floor. A new expression now lay unmoving across his face: Surprise, mixed with shock. Gradually a pool of dark blood began to seap out from his clothing..."
-A statement taken from a witness stood closest to the victim.
"What followed was shocking to everybody involved - not just the victims, but the police, and the whole of the local community. The armed assassin never looked back at his victim. He was as cold as the ice on Neptune, and instantly moved on to his next target. He fired his gun again, two shots this time, and aimed at the tyres of a moving vehicle. The car swerved slightly, before braking hard and coming to an abrupt halt. The armed man raced over to the car, yanked open the door, and pulled the driver out. The owner of the car, who was also the driver, was only 23 years old, but in this brutal world, age didn't matter, and he was hurled to the ground as if he belonged in the sewers."
-A newspaper account written the day after the attack.
"The car pulled away, smoke surfacing behind its rear wheels. It began speeding through dense city traffic, causing numerous other vehicles to swerve and crash. Soon the emergency services arrived on the scene. Police and ambulance groups arrived as one. Some parted to follow the attacker, whilst the rest stayed to attend to the victim, who by now was surely dead."
-Report from a witness arriving on the scene shortly after the initial shooting.
"The police units on the ground followed closely behind the car, keeping with it, but avoiding any direct collisions or collateral damage. From the helicopter, we were able to keep track of the murderer from the air, meaning he had nowhere to go. With the air coordination, it was only a matter of time before the units on the ground were able to set and close a trap around him."
-Description given by helicopter pilot involved in the chase
"During the chase, and eventual capture of the killer, 3 cars were involved in a severe accident due to the reckless driving of the attacker. It resulted in 5 fatalities, and many injuries."
-Doctors report after attempting to treat the victims of the attack.
The question now is: How many people read that, and thought it was funny? Grand Theft Auto 3 frequently involves exactly this kind of violence, perhaps even on a larger scale, with lives lost so frequently, that these deaths go completely unnoticed by the player. I invented the above scenario, but it hardly required me to stretch my imagination. All I had to do was recall my experiences on the game, and suddenly I had a complete story, filled to the brim with violence.
So its not real. True, it isn't. All that you see is just computer created images receiving the same treatment we fear in real life. How far can the realism of the game be taken though before it looks exactly like it does in real life. How far can this be taken before people decide its actually cheaper, and more fun to do these things for real? I'm not saying it will be us, in fact I think most people here would never let themselves get affected by violence in games, but what happens when you put this game in the hands of somebody who is so close to the edge that the demonstration of this kind of violence is all it takes to make that person go and do it themselves?
Violence arises in almost all games these days, and mostly this isn`t a problem. For example, if you take TimeSplitters. The game involves shooting eachother, or computer players, and eventually killing them. However, it is all done in a less realistic, less cold manner, with cartoony characters, and perhaps a more valid reason to do it. You are fighting for your survivial in many games, and this appears to be a more acceptable form of violence. With GTA, there is no reason, no justification, and no excuse for your actions.
-The thoughts of an innocent citizen trying to solve a dangerous situation on the streets.
"I watched another guy walk towards our assailent, and at first I wanted to shout and warn him to stay back, but then I saw his eyes. Never before had I seen such confidence and determination on a man's face. As he walked closer, I thought that perhaps he might be able to sort out this mess, but I soon regretted my earlier decision not to shout. Without warning, the man with the gun fired his weapon, and in an instant, the man who's expression had conveyed such enormous confidence fell to the floor. A new expression now lay unmoving across his face: Surprise, mixed with shock. Gradually a pool of dark blood began to seap out from his clothing..."
-A statement taken from a witness stood closest to the victim.
"What followed was shocking to everybody involved - not just the victims, but the police, and the whole of the local community. The armed assassin never looked back at his victim. He was as cold as the ice on Neptune, and instantly moved on to his next target. He fired his gun again, two shots this time, and aimed at the tyres of a moving vehicle. The car swerved slightly, before braking hard and coming to an abrupt halt. The armed man raced over to the car, yanked open the door, and pulled the driver out. The owner of the car, who was also the driver, was only 23 years old, but in this brutal world, age didn't matter, and he was hurled to the ground as if he belonged in the sewers."
-A newspaper account written the day after the attack.
"The car pulled away, smoke surfacing behind its rear wheels. It began speeding through dense city traffic, causing numerous other vehicles to swerve and crash. Soon the emergency services arrived on the scene. Police and ambulance groups arrived as one. Some parted to follow the attacker, whilst the rest stayed to attend to the victim, who by now was surely dead."
-Report from a witness arriving on the scene shortly after the initial shooting.
"The police units on the ground followed closely behind the car, keeping with it, but avoiding any direct collisions or collateral damage. From the helicopter, we were able to keep track of the murderer from the air, meaning he had nowhere to go. With the air coordination, it was only a matter of time before the units on the ground were able to set and close a trap around him."
-Description given by helicopter pilot involved in the chase
"During the chase, and eventual capture of the killer, 3 cars were involved in a severe accident due to the reckless driving of the attacker. It resulted in 5 fatalities, and many injuries."
-Doctors report after attempting to treat the victims of the attack.
The question now is: How many people read that, and thought it was funny? Grand Theft Auto 3 frequently involves exactly this kind of violence, perhaps even on a larger scale, with lives lost so frequently, that these deaths go completely unnoticed by the player. I invented the above scenario, but it hardly required me to stretch my imagination. All I had to do was recall my experiences on the game, and suddenly I had a complete story, filled to the brim with violence.
So its not real. True, it isn't. All that you see is just computer created images receiving the same treatment we fear in real life. How far can the realism of the game be taken though before it looks exactly like it does in real life. How far can this be taken before people decide its actually cheaper, and more fun to do these things for real? I'm not saying it will be us, in fact I think most people here would never let themselves get affected by violence in games, but what happens when you put this game in the hands of somebody who is so close to the edge that the demonstration of this kind of violence is all it takes to make that person go and do it themselves?
Violence arises in almost all games these days, and mostly this isn`t a problem. For example, if you take TimeSplitters. The game involves shooting eachother, or computer players, and eventually killing them. However, it is all done in a less realistic, less cold manner, with cartoony characters, and perhaps a more valid reason to do it. You are fighting for your survivial in many games, and this appears to be a more acceptable form of violence. With GTA, there is no reason, no justification, and no excuse for your actions.
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I am the Tarrant wrote:
>How do you know? You've not finished the game, for all you know our nameless
> "anti-hero" could resolve all his differences with the world and the
> game could finish with you having created world peace!
That would be a really good ending to the game! So many people would throw there copies across the room, and ask "Why? Why did you take away my daily dose of unprovoked violence?"
>Probably not, but still....
I`d say definitely not.
>How do you know? You've not finished the game, for all you know our nameless
> "anti-hero" could resolve all his differences with the world and the
> game could finish with you having created world peace!
That would be a really good ending to the game! So many people would throw there copies across the room, and ask "Why? Why did you take away my daily dose of unprovoked violence?"
>Probably not, but still....
I`d say definitely not.
ssxpro wrote:
> Metal Gear Solid 2.... another title containing violence, but not one that
> causes offence or too much stupid behaviour. The violence in the game is kept to
> a discrete level, in other words its not all about casual violence, but
> necessary violence. You play in GTA3, and the motives behind the killing are all
> evil, rather than for a greater good.
How do you know? You've not finished the game, for all you know our nameless "anti-hero" could resolve all his differences with the world and the game could finish with you having created world peace!
Probably not, but still....
> Metal Gear Solid 2.... another title containing violence, but not one that
> causes offence or too much stupid behaviour. The violence in the game is kept to
> a discrete level, in other words its not all about casual violence, but
> necessary violence. You play in GTA3, and the motives behind the killing are all
> evil, rather than for a greater good.
How do you know? You've not finished the game, for all you know our nameless "anti-hero" could resolve all his differences with the world and the game could finish with you having created world peace!
Probably not, but still....
Unjustified!?!
Tell me this, how are you supposed to work your way to the top of a crime syndicate without removing old ladies from their cars and kicking them in the crotch till they fork over their pension?
There is an aim to the violence. I think GTA3 has already had a positive effect on society!
Tell me this, how are you supposed to work your way to the top of a crime syndicate without removing old ladies from their cars and kicking them in the crotch till they fork over their pension?
There is an aim to the violence. I think GTA3 has already had a positive effect on society!
You also mention it comes down to the individual, as did Fangface. This means the same thing as I posted towards the end. I`m sure most people here wouldn`t let this kind of violence cross over into real life, but there are those who could potentially be affected by it.
Perhaps there needs to be a way to seperate these people? Its getting to be something "ist" now which isn`t good.
Perhaps there needs to be a way to seperate these people? Its getting to be something "ist" now which isn`t good.
Good post, i think violence can be bad for people who see it as fun unless in the case of games like gta3, GTA3 is fun only because you know its not real and therefore don't take it very seriously, there are obviously always two sides to every story and some people blame gaming for people going round and being involved in crime which in my opinion is just not true, its all down to the individual in the end and there is nothing we can do to stop them if they are not right upstairs, games like gta3 in my view are good because its unoriginal and something different, i enjoy gta3 for what it is because its mindless fun and we all have to remember its only a game.
If people are saying that games should be banned for being violent then a lot of games should be banned, like you have mentioned MGS2 is one, but it makes the experience more real, and thats what games need more of, reality, but of course there are limits.
I think games like GTA have been kept quiet up until now because of the fear of the reaction to the games content, which is fine but games like gta3 cannot be blanked forever, because gta3 is a great game which should be praised for its great ideas as should mgs2, which is oneof the most respected games ever.
My personal view is that there are limits and not many games have gone over them, gta3 hasn't really because of the cartoony style of the game and the shooting of the limbs being taken it, its not as sick as it was made out to be, but people are going to complain so some games may never see the light of day, which is a shame, but like i said there are limits.
Some games are shooting style but are changed, for instance having green blood instead of red blood, which is fine but it annoys some gamers as people want it to be realistic, but could the downfall be lack of reality?
again good post mate :-)
If people are saying that games should be banned for being violent then a lot of games should be banned, like you have mentioned MGS2 is one, but it makes the experience more real, and thats what games need more of, reality, but of course there are limits.
I think games like GTA have been kept quiet up until now because of the fear of the reaction to the games content, which is fine but games like gta3 cannot be blanked forever, because gta3 is a great game which should be praised for its great ideas as should mgs2, which is oneof the most respected games ever.
My personal view is that there are limits and not many games have gone over them, gta3 hasn't really because of the cartoony style of the game and the shooting of the limbs being taken it, its not as sick as it was made out to be, but people are going to complain so some games may never see the light of day, which is a shame, but like i said there are limits.
Some games are shooting style but are changed, for instance having green blood instead of red blood, which is fine but it annoys some gamers as people want it to be realistic, but could the downfall be lack of reality?
again good post mate :-)
§ølid §nak€ wrote:
> i couldnt agree moer in MGS2 you fight for a reason but GTA3 you are a criminal
> bad bad game but i love it.
It does seem to have a strangely addictive property which most people have fallen into already, but as you say - its violence is unjustified.
> i couldnt agree moer in MGS2 you fight for a reason but GTA3 you are a criminal
> bad bad game but i love it.
It does seem to have a strangely addictive property which most people have fallen into already, but as you say - its violence is unjustified.
ssxpro wrote:
> Metal Gear Solid 2.... another title containing violence, but not one that
> causes offence or too much stupid behaviour. The violence in the game is kept to
> a discrete level, in other words its not all about casual violence, but
> necessary violence. You play in GTA3, and the motives behind the killing are all
> evil, rather than for a greater good.
i couldnt agree moer in MGS2 you fight for a reason but GTA3 you are a criminal bad bad game but i love it.
> Metal Gear Solid 2.... another title containing violence, but not one that
> causes offence or too much stupid behaviour. The violence in the game is kept to
> a discrete level, in other words its not all about casual violence, but
> necessary violence. You play in GTA3, and the motives behind the killing are all
> evil, rather than for a greater good.
i couldnt agree moer in MGS2 you fight for a reason but GTA3 you are a criminal bad bad game but i love it.
Metal Gear Solid 2.... another title containing violence, but not one that causes offence or too much stupid behaviour. The violence in the game is kept to a discrete level, in other words its not all about casual violence, but necessary violence. You play in GTA3, and the motives behind the killing are all evil, rather than for a greater good.
Fangface wrote:
> It all comes down to a persons grasp of reality
Which is why most of us will go unaffected, but there are those with a different "grasp of reality" who will miss the obvious difference.
Is it OK for a rugby player
> to stamp another player causing harm whilst in the context of a game? If he
> repeats this whilst out on the drink is it his fault or a byproduct of his
> training?
Thats hardly the same as shooting somebody and stealing their car though is it. Follow it up with killing a few cops and running over a few pedestrians, and you`ve hardly got pub or pitch behaviour. Its a different thing entirely.
The vast majority of us play these games as a break from reality
> and view it in the same context as a "black" comedy. People who are
> unable to cope with the gap between reality and fiction will find problems in
> everyday life not just from computer games.
True, but if there are 6 things making you more violent, but it`ll take 7 things to push you over the edge, then along comes GTA3 to provide you with number 7. It isn`t the only factor, but it could quite easily play a part.
There are thousands of possible
> catylists each day whether it be a person cutting you up in their car to the guy
> spilling your pint in the pub.
Again, its a different thing, and a catalyst only enhances the rate of reaction, it doesn`t actually cause it.
We have had lunatics before the advent of
> computer gaming and when we move to the next level of technology we will
> continue to see more nutters on the front page. Changing games to be more
> cartoon like does not affect the message of killing someone it just makes it
> easier to defend.
It does though. If you take Fur Fighters, there is no blood, just fluff. Its so harmless you barely realise you`re using a gun. Compared to the harsh, blood-spilling realism of GTA3, its like going to a kids party.
Using realistic age guidlines and having realistic,
> informed censorship is the way to maintain a balance.
Maybe, but I know a lot of 12 year olds who have more sense than some of my friends. Age matters to some degree, but in a way, adults a more likely to have access to dangerous tools anyway, so it could be an easier temptation to fulfill.
Did Hitler become what he did because he didnt beat
> England at Fifa?
That was violence on a slightly more major scale.
Is Osmana Bin Ladden a nutter because of Desert
> Strike?
Thats a religious thing.
The world revolves in misterious ways and you cannot legislate for
> every situation
Not every, but some. Perhaps GTA3 is one of those.
> It all comes down to a persons grasp of reality
Which is why most of us will go unaffected, but there are those with a different "grasp of reality" who will miss the obvious difference.
Is it OK for a rugby player
> to stamp another player causing harm whilst in the context of a game? If he
> repeats this whilst out on the drink is it his fault or a byproduct of his
> training?
Thats hardly the same as shooting somebody and stealing their car though is it. Follow it up with killing a few cops and running over a few pedestrians, and you`ve hardly got pub or pitch behaviour. Its a different thing entirely.
The vast majority of us play these games as a break from reality
> and view it in the same context as a "black" comedy. People who are
> unable to cope with the gap between reality and fiction will find problems in
> everyday life not just from computer games.
True, but if there are 6 things making you more violent, but it`ll take 7 things to push you over the edge, then along comes GTA3 to provide you with number 7. It isn`t the only factor, but it could quite easily play a part.
There are thousands of possible
> catylists each day whether it be a person cutting you up in their car to the guy
> spilling your pint in the pub.
Again, its a different thing, and a catalyst only enhances the rate of reaction, it doesn`t actually cause it.
We have had lunatics before the advent of
> computer gaming and when we move to the next level of technology we will
> continue to see more nutters on the front page. Changing games to be more
> cartoon like does not affect the message of killing someone it just makes it
> easier to defend.
It does though. If you take Fur Fighters, there is no blood, just fluff. Its so harmless you barely realise you`re using a gun. Compared to the harsh, blood-spilling realism of GTA3, its like going to a kids party.
Using realistic age guidlines and having realistic,
> informed censorship is the way to maintain a balance.
Maybe, but I know a lot of 12 year olds who have more sense than some of my friends. Age matters to some degree, but in a way, adults a more likely to have access to dangerous tools anyway, so it could be an easier temptation to fulfill.
Did Hitler become what he did because he didnt beat
> England at Fifa?
That was violence on a slightly more major scale.
Is Osmana Bin Ladden a nutter because of Desert
> Strike?
Thats a religious thing.
The world revolves in misterious ways and you cannot legislate for
> every situation
Not every, but some. Perhaps GTA3 is one of those.
What!?! there is justification in that IT'S JUST A GAME!
anyway that was a good post
anyway that was a good post
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