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I'm not going to rant or try to persuade anyone about anything, merely report the facts:
Home Secretary David Blunkett is proposing we opt out of the European Charter on Human Civil Rights to enable us to "Fight terrorism more effectively".
I would just like to point out that the only terrorism we have faced, ever, is from the IRA and it's many splinter groups.
The same IRA that, 2-3 years ago, we released all the convicted murderers and terrorist at Xmas from the Maze prison in a token of "goodwill".
Blunkett says that the main benefit of opting out of the only system of civil liberties we currently possess would be to enable the police to arrest and detain someone "without charge" for a period of their discretion.
Home Secretary David Blunkett is proposing we opt out of the European Charter on Human Civil Rights to enable us to "Fight terrorism more effectively".
I would just like to point out that the only terrorism we have faced, ever, is from the IRA and it's many splinter groups.
The same IRA that, 2-3 years ago, we released all the convicted murderers and terrorist at Xmas from the Maze prison in a token of "goodwill".
Blunkett says that the main benefit of opting out of the only system of civil liberties we currently possess would be to enable the police to arrest and detain someone "without charge" for a period of their discretion.
Page:
redcross.org.uk
Volunteers aren't usually selected for overseas duty, but if you have any specific skill then you can be employed.
I emailed them and I have to fill in a couple of forms and speak to people.
I don't know what I can do, but I have to do something
Volunteers aren't usually selected for overseas duty, but if you have any specific skill then you can be employed.
I emailed them and I have to fill in a couple of forms and speak to people.
I don't know what I can do, but I have to do something
Your Honour wrote:
> From Goatboy:
And that's why, on Saturday, I have volunteered myself to the Red Cross and other aid organisations.
I don't know what I can do, but I have to do something.
I can't sit at my desk and talk about changing the world without making an effort myself to directly help.
I don't know if I can help or what I can do, but damned if I'm going to sit here and talk without being willing to help on a personal level.
Goatboy, do you have any more information about this?
> From Goatboy:
And that's why, on Saturday, I have volunteered myself to the Red Cross and other aid organisations.
I don't know what I can do, but I have to do something.
I can't sit at my desk and talk about changing the world without making an effort myself to directly help.
I don't know if I can help or what I can do, but damned if I'm going to sit here and talk without being willing to help on a personal level.
Goatboy, do you have any more information about this?
An unfortunate accident.
Tragic but unrelated.
Meanwhile, the bombing of civilian homes and "Collateral Damage" (Civilian death) continues unabated.
The humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan is reaching biblical proportions, with almost 4 million refugees in danger of dying if they do not receive desperately needed aid within the next 6 weeks.
---
Strange, that last bit isn't on any news source I can find.
Tragic but unrelated.
Meanwhile, the bombing of civilian homes and "Collateral Damage" (Civilian death) continues unabated.
The humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan is reaching biblical proportions, with almost 4 million refugees in danger of dying if they do not receive desperately needed aid within the next 6 weeks.
---
Strange, that last bit isn't on any news source I can find.
From sky:
A plane has crashed in New York.
It is now understood the plane was an Airbus A300 and suffered engine failure shortly after taking off from JFK airport.
Early reports said the aircraft was a Boeing 767 - the same type which crashed into the World Trade Centre.
The jet, flight 587, was heading to Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic when it came down in Queens, in the south of the city.
There are reports the plane hit a number of buildings near Rockaway beach.
Security chiefs said there was no evidence of terrorist activity but all airports in New York have now been closed as a precautionary measure.
A huge plume of smoke is rising above the New York skyline as the wreckage burns.
The Dow Jones dropped 200 points as news of the crash reached the markets.
A plane has crashed in New York.
It is now understood the plane was an Airbus A300 and suffered engine failure shortly after taking off from JFK airport.
Early reports said the aircraft was a Boeing 767 - the same type which crashed into the World Trade Centre.
The jet, flight 587, was heading to Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic when it came down in Queens, in the south of the city.
There are reports the plane hit a number of buildings near Rockaway beach.
Security chiefs said there was no evidence of terrorist activity but all airports in New York have now been closed as a precautionary measure.
A huge plume of smoke is rising above the New York skyline as the wreckage burns.
The Dow Jones dropped 200 points as news of the crash reached the markets.
No proof of anything at all other than an accident yet.
Let's wait and see before we start the tub-thumping and flag waving, please.
Let's wait and see before we start the tub-thumping and flag waving, please.
I just heard another 767 has gone down in Queens, NY.
I have to disagree with the basis of your arguement.
America and Britain had no quarrel with the Taliban regime, until they were convinced that they were harbouring an international criminal. The Taliban regime are heavily under the influence of Osama Bin Laden. A man who was funded and trained by the Americans during the cold war. However America has also been after this man for many years. They have attacked him previously and they have not just decided to attack him now because of September 11th. September 11th was just the last straw in with Bin Laden.
Diplomacy was not an option with the Taliban. The refused to help the "co-alition" in their pursuit of the man, and openly supported him. During the years previous to the recent events. Aid agencies and the United Nations have been active in Afghanistan on a fairly large scale. We are members and supporters of many agencies taking part to help the people in Afghanistan, but their work is hampered by the restrictions and privacy of the Taliban. However, their was no remit for the United States or any other nation to wage war on Afghanistan, simply disagreeing with their views doesn't allow a war. But being struck by a man with his own personal vendeta, being harboured inside one of the poorest coutries in the world is cause for concern.
Millions of Afghanistan's population, more people than there is in the whole of Scotland will be officially classed as refugees this winter. They are in some of the most harsh terrain and worst conditions in the world, but why will they be there? Almost half of the refugees around Afghanistan would have been classed as refugees regardless of the action brought by the co-alition. They are victims of a civil war which has spanned the best part of a decade, with no support or rest from attacks and persicution. They will have another hard winter this year. But what about next winter? Millions would have been scattered homeless throughout the country, but if the Taliban and al-Quaeda fall to this co-alition and the was is followed through with the proper rebuilding and restructuring of the countries political system, there will be far fewer refugees in such a vulernable position.
America didn't ask Bin Laden to strike. The people of Afghanistan didn't ask for us to hit back, but in the end, who's support would they rather have next winter, ours, or the Taliban's?
America and Britain had no quarrel with the Taliban regime, until they were convinced that they were harbouring an international criminal. The Taliban regime are heavily under the influence of Osama Bin Laden. A man who was funded and trained by the Americans during the cold war. However America has also been after this man for many years. They have attacked him previously and they have not just decided to attack him now because of September 11th. September 11th was just the last straw in with Bin Laden.
Diplomacy was not an option with the Taliban. The refused to help the "co-alition" in their pursuit of the man, and openly supported him. During the years previous to the recent events. Aid agencies and the United Nations have been active in Afghanistan on a fairly large scale. We are members and supporters of many agencies taking part to help the people in Afghanistan, but their work is hampered by the restrictions and privacy of the Taliban. However, their was no remit for the United States or any other nation to wage war on Afghanistan, simply disagreeing with their views doesn't allow a war. But being struck by a man with his own personal vendeta, being harboured inside one of the poorest coutries in the world is cause for concern.
Millions of Afghanistan's population, more people than there is in the whole of Scotland will be officially classed as refugees this winter. They are in some of the most harsh terrain and worst conditions in the world, but why will they be there? Almost half of the refugees around Afghanistan would have been classed as refugees regardless of the action brought by the co-alition. They are victims of a civil war which has spanned the best part of a decade, with no support or rest from attacks and persicution. They will have another hard winter this year. But what about next winter? Millions would have been scattered homeless throughout the country, but if the Taliban and al-Quaeda fall to this co-alition and the was is followed through with the proper rebuilding and restructuring of the countries political system, there will be far fewer refugees in such a vulernable position.
America didn't ask Bin Laden to strike. The people of Afghanistan didn't ask for us to hit back, but in the end, who's support would they rather have next winter, ours, or the Taliban's?
We have done something about it, those of us of voting age have the blood of innocent Afghan victims on our hands, but we also have the resbonsibility to protect each other.
There is no value on the head of human life, but if people chose to put themselves in the line of fire, that is there choice, I do feel we have a responsibility to the innocent civilians of Afghanistan, but we also have the responsibility of protecting them. They have lived through a tyranous government with values which would not be tolerated within the European Union, the United Nations or any other state which coheres to human rights values.
Women are held in a society which prevents them the right to education or basic liberal freedoms, the things which women of this nation fought hard to secure for themselves, why shouldn't the women of Afghanistan be allowed those same freedoms?
As one of the richest societies in the world, we have a responsibility to help these people in their hour of need, but before we can construct a society worthy of the sanctity of human life, we must first deal with the source of the unjust.
There is no value on the head of human life, but if people chose to put themselves in the line of fire, that is there choice, I do feel we have a responsibility to the innocent civilians of Afghanistan, but we also have the responsibility of protecting them. They have lived through a tyranous government with values which would not be tolerated within the European Union, the United Nations or any other state which coheres to human rights values.
Women are held in a society which prevents them the right to education or basic liberal freedoms, the things which women of this nation fought hard to secure for themselves, why shouldn't the women of Afghanistan be allowed those same freedoms?
As one of the richest societies in the world, we have a responsibility to help these people in their hour of need, but before we can construct a society worthy of the sanctity of human life, we must first deal with the source of the unjust.
From Goatboy:
Bonus wrote:
Britain is
> currently at war, and with the capability of our enemy to strike at the heart of
> the United States, our government would be better safe than sorry.
I don't have any enemies mate.
I am sick of having "enemies", I have no quarrel with Bin Laden or Afghanistan or the USA or any other country.
Britain is not at war, this is not a war.
This is simply the USA bombing the living shoot *YH Note.: Can't post the rude version of that word - sorry.*
out of a country with no money, no food and no waterCall it what it is:
Revenge.
We, The West, have been aware of the Taliban regime ever since they came to power. In fact the USA has supplied them aid and financial relief when the Russians were about.
We didn't give a damn about what they were doing, until Sept 11th.
We knew all about their location, methods and views long before Sept 11th and did nothing.
It's only when they decide to whack America that we all wrap ourselves in the flag of freedom and say "We must defeat terrorism"
And that is total bullshoot. *YH NOTE: Can't post the rude version of that word - sorry.*
You don't ignore a situation until it punches you in the balls.
If the Taliban are such a threat, why leave it to reach this point?
"Well it's not our business to interfere in every country"
Well it was the USA business when they routed the Russians by training hardcore fundamentalist groups with CIA assistance.
The same way it was the USA business to install Bin Laden and assist the Taliban to keep the Middle East unsettled and prevent OPEC nations from forming an alliance, effectively blocking the USA out of the oil loop.
And that is what this situation is about.
Oil.
ESSO paid 1.2 billion dollars into Bush's campaign fund during the election (one of the most farcical in US history), and during the Kyoto summit on green-issues, the USA walked away from the table.
At the urging of who?
ESSO.
How strange.
The Taliban are an oppressive and brutal regime, no question or doubt about that.
However, we tolerate this as long as it serves a purpose for us.
As soon as they turn around and attack, not us, but the USA?
"We must rid the world of the evil of terrorism".
By bombing one of the poorest countries in the world?
You will not get the Taliban with random cluster bombs, these people live in towns and cities with the population.
You get in there with ground troops/special forces and you make sure you know who the hell is getting killed.
Aerial bombardment is morally wrong.
But Bush will not commit troops to this campaign on anything like the scale needed, because the one thing American's don’t like to see is Americans dying abroad.
The fact is that the USA foreign policy is one of non-involvement until it directly affects America.
It's why genocide was committed in Bosnia for 9 years before the USA reluctantly agreed to join the UN peacekeeping forces with minimal troop quotas.
Each cluster bomb costs the US $1.2 million dollars.
Currently they have spent almost 3/4 of a billion on bombs.
And precisely $900,000 on food and aid relief.
"We" are not interested in helping save Afghanistan from terrorism. This is about saving face and hitting back.
Pure and simple.
And the UK.
What threat are we under? "Well the Taliban...."
Well the Taliban nothing.
The IRA, those are the terrorists we fight. Last week they car-bombed Birmingham. And now what?
Well as soon as Blair gets back the States, maybe he can tackle that problem.
If we are so righteous and against terrorism, what are we doing about East Timor, Jakarta, Rwanda, Malaysia, Guatemala, Bosnia, Tibet etc etc?
Nothing. This is not about fighting terrorism, this is bulls*** posturing from the USA and we run to help.
The only way to defeat terrorism to get in there hand-to-hand. But that won't happen, because in the history of Afghanistan, in the hundreds of years of conflict, no army has ever been successful in defeating Afghans in that region.
And more than that, you have to go in and affect change with the most basic of ways:
Feeding, clothing and educating the people so you don't end up with a generation of disenfranchised people bitter at The West for yet more destruction.
By all means kill The Taliban - but you have to follow that up with assistance and long-term aid, otherwise more will replace those you kill today.
And that's why, on Saturday, I have volunteered myself to the Red Cross and other aid organisations.
I don't know what I can do, but I have to do something.
I can't sit at my desk and talk about changing the world without making an effort myself to directly help.
I don't know if I can help or what I can do, but damned if I'm going to sit here and talk without being willing to help on a personal level.
This "war" on terrorism is a joke, we are bombing towns and people that know nothing except they have no food and no chance to survive the coming winter.
THAT is what we are doing, annihilating a people because of a minority terror group that we helped to fund, train and install.
Damn Bush, Damn Blair and Damn The Taliban.
Bonus wrote:
Britain is
> currently at war, and with the capability of our enemy to strike at the heart of
> the United States, our government would be better safe than sorry.
I don't have any enemies mate.
I am sick of having "enemies", I have no quarrel with Bin Laden or Afghanistan or the USA or any other country.
Britain is not at war, this is not a war.
This is simply the USA bombing the living shoot *YH Note.: Can't post the rude version of that word - sorry.*
out of a country with no money, no food and no waterCall it what it is:
Revenge.
We, The West, have been aware of the Taliban regime ever since they came to power. In fact the USA has supplied them aid and financial relief when the Russians were about.
We didn't give a damn about what they were doing, until Sept 11th.
We knew all about their location, methods and views long before Sept 11th and did nothing.
It's only when they decide to whack America that we all wrap ourselves in the flag of freedom and say "We must defeat terrorism"
And that is total bullshoot. *YH NOTE: Can't post the rude version of that word - sorry.*
You don't ignore a situation until it punches you in the balls.
If the Taliban are such a threat, why leave it to reach this point?
"Well it's not our business to interfere in every country"
Well it was the USA business when they routed the Russians by training hardcore fundamentalist groups with CIA assistance.
The same way it was the USA business to install Bin Laden and assist the Taliban to keep the Middle East unsettled and prevent OPEC nations from forming an alliance, effectively blocking the USA out of the oil loop.
And that is what this situation is about.
Oil.
ESSO paid 1.2 billion dollars into Bush's campaign fund during the election (one of the most farcical in US history), and during the Kyoto summit on green-issues, the USA walked away from the table.
At the urging of who?
ESSO.
How strange.
The Taliban are an oppressive and brutal regime, no question or doubt about that.
However, we tolerate this as long as it serves a purpose for us.
As soon as they turn around and attack, not us, but the USA?
"We must rid the world of the evil of terrorism".
By bombing one of the poorest countries in the world?
You will not get the Taliban with random cluster bombs, these people live in towns and cities with the population.
You get in there with ground troops/special forces and you make sure you know who the hell is getting killed.
Aerial bombardment is morally wrong.
But Bush will not commit troops to this campaign on anything like the scale needed, because the one thing American's don’t like to see is Americans dying abroad.
The fact is that the USA foreign policy is one of non-involvement until it directly affects America.
It's why genocide was committed in Bosnia for 9 years before the USA reluctantly agreed to join the UN peacekeeping forces with minimal troop quotas.
Each cluster bomb costs the US $1.2 million dollars.
Currently they have spent almost 3/4 of a billion on bombs.
And precisely $900,000 on food and aid relief.
"We" are not interested in helping save Afghanistan from terrorism. This is about saving face and hitting back.
Pure and simple.
And the UK.
What threat are we under? "Well the Taliban...."
Well the Taliban nothing.
The IRA, those are the terrorists we fight. Last week they car-bombed Birmingham. And now what?
Well as soon as Blair gets back the States, maybe he can tackle that problem.
If we are so righteous and against terrorism, what are we doing about East Timor, Jakarta, Rwanda, Malaysia, Guatemala, Bosnia, Tibet etc etc?
Nothing. This is not about fighting terrorism, this is bulls*** posturing from the USA and we run to help.
The only way to defeat terrorism to get in there hand-to-hand. But that won't happen, because in the history of Afghanistan, in the hundreds of years of conflict, no army has ever been successful in defeating Afghans in that region.
And more than that, you have to go in and affect change with the most basic of ways:
Feeding, clothing and educating the people so you don't end up with a generation of disenfranchised people bitter at The West for yet more destruction.
By all means kill The Taliban - but you have to follow that up with assistance and long-term aid, otherwise more will replace those you kill today.
And that's why, on Saturday, I have volunteered myself to the Red Cross and other aid organisations.
I don't know what I can do, but I have to do something.
I can't sit at my desk and talk about changing the world without making an effort myself to directly help.
I don't know if I can help or what I can do, but damned if I'm going to sit here and talk without being willing to help on a personal level.
This "war" on terrorism is a joke, we are bombing towns and people that know nothing except they have no food and no chance to survive the coming winter.
THAT is what we are doing, annihilating a people because of a minority terror group that we helped to fund, train and install.
Damn Bush, Damn Blair and Damn The Taliban.
I've asked YH to post it for me.
And I've had enough of this crap.
Go Earth:
Wipe us all out with AIDS, plagues, famines and floods.
We do not deserve to be on this planet.
Bush/Blair/Bin Laden, all the same.
Evil spiteful species and damn each and every single one of us.
I'm not posting on here anymore today, I am too angry and too close to walking out of this stupid monotonous job and petty stupid country filled with idiots that can't talk rationally and feel the need to bomb/kill/destroy for whatever reason.
Balls to anyone that has spoken about this subject and does nothing more than talk big and do nothing else.
You're unhappy about this situation?
Bloody do something to change it then.
You think America is right?
Then show your support, wear a flag.
Don't just sit back and let this happen in front of you on television, this is your world and unless you do something then we're doomed.
Christ I hate this world right now.
And I've had enough of this crap.
Go Earth:
Wipe us all out with AIDS, plagues, famines and floods.
We do not deserve to be on this planet.
Bush/Blair/Bin Laden, all the same.
Evil spiteful species and damn each and every single one of us.
I'm not posting on here anymore today, I am too angry and too close to walking out of this stupid monotonous job and petty stupid country filled with idiots that can't talk rationally and feel the need to bomb/kill/destroy for whatever reason.
Balls to anyone that has spoken about this subject and does nothing more than talk big and do nothing else.
You're unhappy about this situation?
Bloody do something to change it then.
You think America is right?
Then show your support, wear a flag.
Don't just sit back and let this happen in front of you on television, this is your world and unless you do something then we're doomed.
Christ I hate this world right now.
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