The "Sony Games" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Depth.
An often underrated part of todays gaming world, but one of the more important, as far as I'm concerned. Generally, the deeper a game is, the more I'll enjoy it, because in theory there's more to enjoy.
Back in earlier days of gaming, when the Atari ST and Amiga were battling for the crown many games were being produced and many of them fun. Not many of them stood the test of time though. Some classics were produced, usually the more succesful of the arcade conversions (games like "Double Dragon") and other games that were classics at the time but have faded from memory now ("Rainbow Islands" for instance, the world loved it, but not many know of it now). However, certain games acquired huge cult followings, so much so that they are still regularly played now - and why? Depth.
Dungeon Master, was a classic in its day and is still a classic now, I don't imagine many of todays console gamers will be that aware of it, but those of you who are 20+ may well have a dim recollection or an avid enthusiasm for this game. While the visuals were pretty weak and the action rather slow it was soooo ridiculously deep and well thought out, that people just loved it and kept on loving it.
I feel that this holds true to today. Deeper games hold your interest for longer.
At the forefront of PS2 developers we have people who are really passionate about making story, driven games with as much depth as they can cram in.
Hironobu Sakaguchi, the man in charge of the Final Fantasy games is one of these men. He states quite clearly that he "likes telling stories" his characters, worlds and plot lines are meticulously worked at until they gel together, giving the gamer a wonderful feeling of depth in each important aspect of the game.
Hideo Kojima, who directs games like no other, is another of these developers. Notable mainly for Metal Gear Solid. His games have huge depth in atmosphere as well as the story telling. One of the things that amazed me in Metal Gear is how all the members of Fox Hound seemed to have their own little story included. A lot of games have characters histories in the manual, but its much better to have them included mid-game. Kojima does this expertly.
Its not just depth in plot and characters that can make a game though, afterall, not everyone has got the time to be playing through these monumental masterpieces.
Most gamers at one time or another just need a quick fix.
Games like Tekken or, going back a bit, Street Fighter provided a lot of enjoyment for those seeking a more arcade like hit. But eventually street fighter has faded from view.
The reason for this being that, though it established some good history over the years, the gameplay lacked depth and Tekken, with its deeper as well as innovitive gameplay took over.
Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 is another fine example of a more arcade experience with depth.
Yes, the game has a career mode, but that is far from deep. The interest in this game apart form the nice, large and varied levels is the richness and depth of the gameplay. You have many tricks and no set path at your disposal, as I've said before you can play for minutes or hours on this game and you'll still have something to do on it.
At the moment the top developers (Kojima, etc) are judging the depth just right to keep the mass market quite happy.
Whilst deep, rich and varied - few games are coming out that are too deep (generally the opposite but hey...). Over deepness is a problem that some felt "Dungeon Master" had, but obviously that is all opinion based.
Do you feel that games could or should be deeper, or are you happy with the current state?
An often underrated part of todays gaming world, but one of the more important, as far as I'm concerned. Generally, the deeper a game is, the more I'll enjoy it, because in theory there's more to enjoy.
Back in earlier days of gaming, when the Atari ST and Amiga were battling for the crown many games were being produced and many of them fun. Not many of them stood the test of time though. Some classics were produced, usually the more succesful of the arcade conversions (games like "Double Dragon") and other games that were classics at the time but have faded from memory now ("Rainbow Islands" for instance, the world loved it, but not many know of it now). However, certain games acquired huge cult followings, so much so that they are still regularly played now - and why? Depth.
Dungeon Master, was a classic in its day and is still a classic now, I don't imagine many of todays console gamers will be that aware of it, but those of you who are 20+ may well have a dim recollection or an avid enthusiasm for this game. While the visuals were pretty weak and the action rather slow it was soooo ridiculously deep and well thought out, that people just loved it and kept on loving it.
I feel that this holds true to today. Deeper games hold your interest for longer.
At the forefront of PS2 developers we have people who are really passionate about making story, driven games with as much depth as they can cram in.
Hironobu Sakaguchi, the man in charge of the Final Fantasy games is one of these men. He states quite clearly that he "likes telling stories" his characters, worlds and plot lines are meticulously worked at until they gel together, giving the gamer a wonderful feeling of depth in each important aspect of the game.
Hideo Kojima, who directs games like no other, is another of these developers. Notable mainly for Metal Gear Solid. His games have huge depth in atmosphere as well as the story telling. One of the things that amazed me in Metal Gear is how all the members of Fox Hound seemed to have their own little story included. A lot of games have characters histories in the manual, but its much better to have them included mid-game. Kojima does this expertly.
Its not just depth in plot and characters that can make a game though, afterall, not everyone has got the time to be playing through these monumental masterpieces.
Most gamers at one time or another just need a quick fix.
Games like Tekken or, going back a bit, Street Fighter provided a lot of enjoyment for those seeking a more arcade like hit. But eventually street fighter has faded from view.
The reason for this being that, though it established some good history over the years, the gameplay lacked depth and Tekken, with its deeper as well as innovitive gameplay took over.
Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 is another fine example of a more arcade experience with depth.
Yes, the game has a career mode, but that is far from deep. The interest in this game apart form the nice, large and varied levels is the richness and depth of the gameplay. You have many tricks and no set path at your disposal, as I've said before you can play for minutes or hours on this game and you'll still have something to do on it.
At the moment the top developers (Kojima, etc) are judging the depth just right to keep the mass market quite happy.
Whilst deep, rich and varied - few games are coming out that are too deep (generally the opposite but hey...). Over deepness is a problem that some felt "Dungeon Master" had, but obviously that is all opinion based.
Do you feel that games could or should be deeper, or are you happy with the current state?
Page:
Advertising also makes a game. Look at GT3, there was huge loads of advertising for it in magazines, on the net and tv. I seen reports somewhere that this fact alone got sold many PS2's and copys of the game.
You mean like adding more options and stuff. Or adding a story mode(say it isnt so)
The ISS series is another like THPS2, it can be played for hours on end, perfecting skills and sorting out your perfect team, or you can just stick it on for a quick blast 10 minutes before you go to the pub. Good football games can last a long time and can be made as deep or as shallow as you like.
Management games are usually deeper though.
Do you think it would be possible to intergrate a plot into football games (other than "make my team win!") ???
Management games are usually deeper though.
Do you think it would be possible to intergrate a plot into football games (other than "make my team win!") ???
Depth is certainly one of the most important things that make a game, i would say more important than gameplay in some cases.
Games like final fantasy is one of those games that has so much depth you cant believe its a game and not a movie. another game is the ISS series. How a game such as this has so much depth is amazing, you play the same way all the time with only one object, but because its so good and realistic,you just want to keep playing.
Its games like crazy taxi that get left out, its a top quality game with excellent game play. But there is no depth and you soon get bored.
Games like final fantasy is one of those games that has so much depth you cant believe its a game and not a movie. another game is the ISS series. How a game such as this has so much depth is amazing, you play the same way all the time with only one object, but because its so good and realistic,you just want to keep playing.
Its games like crazy taxi that get left out, its a top quality game with excellent game play. But there is no depth and you soon get bored.
Like in football games, you see linesmen.Only World League Soccer games have done that(and Champions League games).
More events included in Olympic games titles. Like instead of having 6 yes 6 events in the Salt Lake City 2002, yoi could have all 20+.
In Metal Gear Solid you could have guards go whereever they want(not just follow the same route when patrolling)
In RPG games you should be able to go anywhere like to every single house.Whats the point of having a house with a door and u cant get in...
Ive got some more in mind but thats enough for now
More events included in Olympic games titles. Like instead of having 6 yes 6 events in the Salt Lake City 2002, yoi could have all 20+.
In Metal Gear Solid you could have guards go whereever they want(not just follow the same route when patrolling)
In RPG games you should be able to go anywhere like to every single house.Whats the point of having a house with a door and u cant get in...
Ive got some more in mind but thats enough for now
I usually find it hard to read topics, but that flowed excellently, never stopping and babbling about a certain point, never becoming boring. I really hope it wins gameaday.
I bought a Dreamcast, and one of the first games I bought was Skies of Arcadia, an RPG simular to Final Fantasy in a way... the game didn't really have truly excellent graphics, I didn't care about cell shading, anti-aliasing, real time lighting or any crap that we talk about on here... why? Because it was a rewarding and very deep experience, all about how persistence and sheer determination can get you through anything, and how humanity fails because it loses faith in itself and others.
Vyse starts as a boy with a dream, and ends up as a boy still... but he is shown as a great leader, one with emotion, and becomes someone that people are powerless to just follow, so utterly baffled at his persistence to do whatever he wants.
I still believe it to be the best game I've ever played, and was certainly the one that finally convinced me that working in the games industry was the way to go. Games aren't about lives, points, graphics... they're about experiences, emotions, and the rewarding feeling you get from playing and completing it.
On one hand, I'm the creator and owner of the Swordspines, and I've single handedly half animated a small feature film about a story we all once wrote, still working on it... I, with help from FantasyMeister, mangaged to contact Rareware and get a job offering for the future... and I've discovered a goal in life, something to aim for, and help others with the same ideas and dreams to discover theirs too. I know in the future I will work among friends that will only want to create the most emotional of experiences for people, that trap them in a world of mystery, and help them to come to terms with the beauty that is games. There are just two members in the Swordspines, and I really wish there were more.
And then, there is the other hand. I'm a seventeen year old naive fool, who will account to nothing because I don't really know what to do in life, and I'm only pretending I know what I'm doing because I can't accept the fact that I'll be stuck behind a till until I can recieve my pension.
I've learned in life to never get my hopes up, because anything you wish for will never come true... and it doesn't.
But... something, something keeps nagging me in the back of my head. Take that step forward, leap, don't look back, and land on two feet. I'm so utterly confused, hours pass with me just thinking to myself, I can't concentrate on anything other than my animations and writing.
Have I gone off topic? No. For you see, all this is because of one game, and because of it's utter depth has made me realise that life really isn't about regretting the things you didn't do, but actually making a stand and working so very hard to actually get where you want to be.
I'm going to do a course somewhere, I've got a few places to go to, doing Computer Games Development, and while perhaps I feel I've had a lot of experience in life, it can get me nowhere if I don't know how to convert it into something solid.
Good luck to anyone with a dream, I say. Good luck to those that continue to defy normality and go out there and live your life doing what you really want to do. I'm not sure if I'm capable, but I'm sure as hell going to try.
I bought a Dreamcast, and one of the first games I bought was Skies of Arcadia, an RPG simular to Final Fantasy in a way... the game didn't really have truly excellent graphics, I didn't care about cell shading, anti-aliasing, real time lighting or any crap that we talk about on here... why? Because it was a rewarding and very deep experience, all about how persistence and sheer determination can get you through anything, and how humanity fails because it loses faith in itself and others.
Vyse starts as a boy with a dream, and ends up as a boy still... but he is shown as a great leader, one with emotion, and becomes someone that people are powerless to just follow, so utterly baffled at his persistence to do whatever he wants.
I still believe it to be the best game I've ever played, and was certainly the one that finally convinced me that working in the games industry was the way to go. Games aren't about lives, points, graphics... they're about experiences, emotions, and the rewarding feeling you get from playing and completing it.
On one hand, I'm the creator and owner of the Swordspines, and I've single handedly half animated a small feature film about a story we all once wrote, still working on it... I, with help from FantasyMeister, mangaged to contact Rareware and get a job offering for the future... and I've discovered a goal in life, something to aim for, and help others with the same ideas and dreams to discover theirs too. I know in the future I will work among friends that will only want to create the most emotional of experiences for people, that trap them in a world of mystery, and help them to come to terms with the beauty that is games. There are just two members in the Swordspines, and I really wish there were more.
And then, there is the other hand. I'm a seventeen year old naive fool, who will account to nothing because I don't really know what to do in life, and I'm only pretending I know what I'm doing because I can't accept the fact that I'll be stuck behind a till until I can recieve my pension.
I've learned in life to never get my hopes up, because anything you wish for will never come true... and it doesn't.
But... something, something keeps nagging me in the back of my head. Take that step forward, leap, don't look back, and land on two feet. I'm so utterly confused, hours pass with me just thinking to myself, I can't concentrate on anything other than my animations and writing.
Have I gone off topic? No. For you see, all this is because of one game, and because of it's utter depth has made me realise that life really isn't about regretting the things you didn't do, but actually making a stand and working so very hard to actually get where you want to be.
I'm going to do a course somewhere, I've got a few places to go to, doing Computer Games Development, and while perhaps I feel I've had a lot of experience in life, it can get me nowhere if I don't know how to convert it into something solid.
Good luck to anyone with a dream, I say. Good luck to those that continue to defy normality and go out there and live your life doing what you really want to do. I'm not sure if I'm capable, but I'm sure as hell going to try.
Page: