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No, this isn't another 'Nintendo are crap at advertising' topic. It's about the state of Nintendo's software.
To be perfectly honest, I've never had a problem with Nintendo's games, they're fun to play and overall great, but their approach to some of their leading franchises is just stupid.
We've seen some amazing original titles since the GameCube was launched (Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion, Doshin the Giant (even if it was to an acquired taste)) but the ongoing series' that they have are being destroyed so easily.
Okay, destroyed is harsh word to use, but it's true in some sense. Look at Mario Sunshine, for example. We'd all played Luigi's Mansion by the time we played Sunshine and in my humble opinion, Luigi's Mansion is still one of the best titles we've seen on the 'Cube. Mario Sunshine, which I would have much preferred, along with many others, to be a Mario 64 sequel, or a remake even, was destroyed by trying to incorporate FLUDD. Not dissimilar to the genius work of magic that is the Hoover in Luigi's Mansion, but it just didn't fit into the Mario-style gameplay we only just got to know. The 'dizzy heights' moments of all great platformers wasn't apparent in Sunshine because you always had FLUDD to fall back on.
It just seems as though Nintendo don't know where innovation is needed. We'd only just played Mario 64, a huge leap from the 2D days of old, and no similar kind of Mario game since, yet Mario underwent another change too soon. The people wanted an update, Nintendo didn't deliver. It did please me so much when it was revealed Mario 128 was going ahead and Sunshine was simply to 'fill the gap', but that's not really an excuse.
But this isn't just about Mario Sunshine. Metroid Prime, to me, is the greatest thing the Cube has seen yet. The Metroid series hadn't really changed at all in all of its life and in order for it to be a real hit it did need a drastic change. Because there are so many 3D adventure games, it could have ended up mediocre... but it didn't. Retro did what Nintendo couldn't.
Zelda wasn't in need of drastic changes and luckily Nintendo answered our prayers and gave us an update instead of this first-person-boomerang-'em-up it could have turned into (but wouldn't, really). The only subtle change (Link's boat) did change the game in minor ways for the worse, but for the most part, Wind Waker delivers.
My only worry is, the children of the future (Pikmin, Mario Kart) that will be coming to the 'Cube soon could be let downs. Pikmin's changes are just plain stupid (oooh, great, a Random Level Generator) and although there's no doubt it my mind that Mario Kart will be amazing, you never know.
Maybe this is me being pessimistic, but innovation in the right places seemingly isn't Nintendo's strong point. Retro did a great job on one of the longest running franchises and Nintendo didn't, that's the bottom line.
Discuss.
To be perfectly honest, I've never had a problem with Nintendo's games, they're fun to play and overall great, but their approach to some of their leading franchises is just stupid.
We've seen some amazing original titles since the GameCube was launched (Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion, Doshin the Giant (even if it was to an acquired taste)) but the ongoing series' that they have are being destroyed so easily.
Okay, destroyed is harsh word to use, but it's true in some sense. Look at Mario Sunshine, for example. We'd all played Luigi's Mansion by the time we played Sunshine and in my humble opinion, Luigi's Mansion is still one of the best titles we've seen on the 'Cube. Mario Sunshine, which I would have much preferred, along with many others, to be a Mario 64 sequel, or a remake even, was destroyed by trying to incorporate FLUDD. Not dissimilar to the genius work of magic that is the Hoover in Luigi's Mansion, but it just didn't fit into the Mario-style gameplay we only just got to know. The 'dizzy heights' moments of all great platformers wasn't apparent in Sunshine because you always had FLUDD to fall back on.
It just seems as though Nintendo don't know where innovation is needed. We'd only just played Mario 64, a huge leap from the 2D days of old, and no similar kind of Mario game since, yet Mario underwent another change too soon. The people wanted an update, Nintendo didn't deliver. It did please me so much when it was revealed Mario 128 was going ahead and Sunshine was simply to 'fill the gap', but that's not really an excuse.
But this isn't just about Mario Sunshine. Metroid Prime, to me, is the greatest thing the Cube has seen yet. The Metroid series hadn't really changed at all in all of its life and in order for it to be a real hit it did need a drastic change. Because there are so many 3D adventure games, it could have ended up mediocre... but it didn't. Retro did what Nintendo couldn't.
Zelda wasn't in need of drastic changes and luckily Nintendo answered our prayers and gave us an update instead of this first-person-boomerang-'em-up it could have turned into (but wouldn't, really). The only subtle change (Link's boat) did change the game in minor ways for the worse, but for the most part, Wind Waker delivers.
My only worry is, the children of the future (Pikmin, Mario Kart) that will be coming to the 'Cube soon could be let downs. Pikmin's changes are just plain stupid (oooh, great, a Random Level Generator) and although there's no doubt it my mind that Mario Kart will be amazing, you never know.
Maybe this is me being pessimistic, but innovation in the right places seemingly isn't Nintendo's strong point. Retro did a great job on one of the longest running franchises and Nintendo didn't, that's the bottom line.
Discuss.
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Bane wrote:
> Doshin the Giant is the biggest load of crap I've ever played, and the
> only game I have ever returned because I was so disgusted with it.
>
I agree it is bad... and it was a brit who converted it too... pity.
> Doshin the Giant is the biggest load of crap I've ever played, and the
> only game I have ever returned because I was so disgusted with it.
>
I agree it is bad... and it was a brit who converted it too... pity.
I kept putting ' in odd places...
I'm weird.
I'm weird.
Dringo wrote:
> Tiltawhirl :- In your opinon. I hate X-box live.
Your opinion isn't the be all and end all of Nintendo's future though.
Also the hundreds of thousands of Live subscribers would disagree with you. It opens the console up to a much broader range of gamers. Until Nintendo open their eyes and realise that gamers are getting bored of the endless Mario and Zelda rehashes, they're gonna stay in this postion for a very long time.
> Tiltawhirl :- In your opinon. I hate X-box live.
Your opinion isn't the be all and end all of Nintendo's future though.
Also the hundreds of thousands of Live subscribers would disagree with you. It opens the console up to a much broader range of gamers. Until Nintendo open their eyes and realise that gamers are getting bored of the endless Mario and Zelda rehashes, they're gonna stay in this postion for a very long time.
Doshin the Giant was a quality game, so what if it was a bit slow, that's what made it so great. Certainly not for those who want an action-fest but it's good, clean fun.
As for Mario Sunshine, I'm not bothered about the new location or storyline, while i wasn't fond of them it would never affect whether or not I liked or disliked a game. FLUDD made me dislike it though.
There were so many things that Nintendo could have done to Mario 64 to make Mario Sunshine a great game, it was good but was far from the Mario romp I and many others were expecting. We'd already seen a similar device in Luigi's Mansion, a new franchise of sorts, so why try change an old franchise in the same way?
Changing a franchise can be great (look at Metroid Prime), but a franchise like Mario that had already undergone a huge change with Mario 64 needn't be changed on that scale. I don't think anyone could truthully say those mini-sections without FLUDD weren't amazing and what they thought the new Mario would be.
As for Link's boat I wouldn't say that's a massive change like FLUDD; think of Epona, it's just another way to get around, it may add a new dimension to Wind Waker because you can't reach certain areas early on due to the wind, but there are always inaccesible in games, this was just another way to make them hard to impossible to reach early on.
As for Pikmin... well you pointed out yourself the one of the biggest problems it will face. The lack of a time limit. Some may disagree, but Pikmin was so good thanks to that time limit, it may have stunted the game in terms of length, but it made for a truly amazing adventure and the pressure as you tried to get all your Pikmin back before nightfall was amazing.
As for Mario Sunshine, I'm not bothered about the new location or storyline, while i wasn't fond of them it would never affect whether or not I liked or disliked a game. FLUDD made me dislike it though.
There were so many things that Nintendo could have done to Mario 64 to make Mario Sunshine a great game, it was good but was far from the Mario romp I and many others were expecting. We'd already seen a similar device in Luigi's Mansion, a new franchise of sorts, so why try change an old franchise in the same way?
Changing a franchise can be great (look at Metroid Prime), but a franchise like Mario that had already undergone a huge change with Mario 64 needn't be changed on that scale. I don't think anyone could truthully say those mini-sections without FLUDD weren't amazing and what they thought the new Mario would be.
As for Link's boat I wouldn't say that's a massive change like FLUDD; think of Epona, it's just another way to get around, it may add a new dimension to Wind Waker because you can't reach certain areas early on due to the wind, but there are always inaccesible in games, this was just another way to make them hard to impossible to reach early on.
As for Pikmin... well you pointed out yourself the one of the biggest problems it will face. The lack of a time limit. Some may disagree, but Pikmin was so good thanks to that time limit, it may have stunted the game in terms of length, but it made for a truly amazing adventure and the pressure as you tried to get all your Pikmin back before nightfall was amazing.
Tiltawhirl wrote:
> Dringo wrote:
I hate X-box live.
>
Why ? (I've never tried it just want to know why you think that)
> Dringo wrote:
I hate X-box live.
>
Why ? (I've never tried it just want to know why you think that)
No, Doshin was gay. Slow games I can handle (I played Black & White for three weeks straight), but Doshin was like a mong-mash of Populous - Idiot's Edition and Yoshi's Story For Retards, only with added spakker factor and pleb appeal.
Pfffft.
Tiltawhirl wrote:
> Dringo wrote:
> Tiltawhirl :- In your opinon. I hate X-box live.
>
> Your opinion isn't the be all and end all of Nintendo's future
> though.
>
> Also the hundreds of thousands of Live subscribers would disagree
> with you. It opens the console up to a much broader range of gamers.
> Until Nintendo open their eyes and realise that gamers are getting
> bored of the endless Mario and Zelda rehashes, they're gonna stay in
> this postion for a very long time.
Xbox Live is a great feature on the Xbox - undoubtedly, and Nintendo need to implement a similar service on their next console if they want to compete.
However, I don't consider it the feature of all features. I like my single player quests just as much as my multiplayer games. After all, Xbox Live isn't going to be around forever, so what will happen to all those great Live games when it ends? They'll be obsolete.
> Dringo wrote:
> Tiltawhirl :- In your opinon. I hate X-box live.
>
> Your opinion isn't the be all and end all of Nintendo's future
> though.
>
> Also the hundreds of thousands of Live subscribers would disagree
> with you. It opens the console up to a much broader range of gamers.
> Until Nintendo open their eyes and realise that gamers are getting
> bored of the endless Mario and Zelda rehashes, they're gonna stay in
> this postion for a very long time.
Xbox Live is a great feature on the Xbox - undoubtedly, and Nintendo need to implement a similar service on their next console if they want to compete.
However, I don't consider it the feature of all features. I like my single player quests just as much as my multiplayer games. After all, Xbox Live isn't going to be around forever, so what will happen to all those great Live games when it ends? They'll be obsolete.
I don't like X-box live because I'm a busy lad an Live gameplay requires me to make time to use it.
I really don't and so therefore think it's crap.
I have never enjoyed online gaming.
And Tiltawhirl your opinon isn't the be all and end all of X-box's future. Millions of PS2 owners and Gamecube owners are not even remotly interested in online gaming.
I really don't and so therefore think it's crap.
I have never enjoyed online gaming.
And Tiltawhirl your opinon isn't the be all and end all of X-box's future. Millions of PS2 owners and Gamecube owners are not even remotly interested in online gaming.
Rickoss wrote:
> Pfffft.
Now come on lets face it...
MEGA dissapointment.
> Pfffft.
Now come on lets face it...
MEGA dissapointment.
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