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Well, the DS has been shown, whoopee, I bet Dringo wet his pants this afternoon.
So, anyway, this dual screen malarky, revolutionary? A brilliant change to the way games are played by the industry?
Well, guess what, I don't agree, and I'm going to be called a Sony fanboy, or at very best, an anti-Nintendo zealot for it ;)
Anyway, here's my gripe, there's nothing revolutionrary about the DS what-so-ever. People are talking as though they have never seen dual screen hardware in gamers lifetime, well, I hate to dissapoint you all, but the dual screen handheld format was tried, tested and loved by us golden oldies a little short of 20 years ago.
[URL]http://www.infa.abo.fi/~buck/misc/gizmos/pix/nintendo.game+watch.mickey+donald.open.jpg[/URL]
This picture shows a NINTENDO Game And Watch handheld single game device from almost TWENTY years ago.
[URL]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/12/nintendo_ds_comms/[/URL]
This image shows an almost identical looking handheld game platform, released by the very same company, but claim this dual screen arhitecture to be new, revolutionary, and well, good.
I'm not saying there may be some niche elements available to gamers, but I feel that most games developers will not use the additional screen for anything useful. Football games will have a top down radar, metroid will have a map, mario kart will have the track and player positions, basically world information about locations and the layout of the world will be used on this screen.
There is a good reason for this too, people can only concentrate their vision to a single focal point at a time. No one can concentrate on both of those screens at the same time, so one screen will be used for gameplay, and the other for displaying information.
This is a good thing given the paltry size of the DS screen, it means the game screen can be uncluttered with HUDs and the like but concentrate solely on letting the player play the game.
I will be truely amazed if anyone on this forum can come up with an original gameplay dynamic which could actively use the two screens of the DS in a way that could not be done on a single screen.
I'm even thinking of having, say, a heat sensor camera on the top screen, and a normal view on the bottom. This would be done MORE effectively on a single screen as a current day frame rate is at a higher reresh rate then the ability of a person to change their point of focus from one screen to the other. Sinply hitting a button to change views whilst focusing on a single point is a more natural way of playing a game.
So, I suppose I have set myself up for a fight by challenging the might of Ninetndo, again, but surely there are more innovative things happening in the world of gaming than a twenty year old handheld design being rereleased to a massive fanfare with no clear cut example of how this creates a revolution.
Nintendo should be commended for spinning up some dust to hide Sony's far nore impressive PSP handheld entertainment device.
The PSP is much more of a students system, good games, good movies, good sounds, wireless and one decent big widescreen which will let people who commute, or like to enjoy the comforts of their bedroom in some glorious sunshine.
The DS is not a gaming revolution, it's a bit like 90s pop music, a remix of something old people liked twenty years ago, just with more colours and more marketing hype. Take the DS with a pinch of salt, it's not worth the hype.
So, anyway, this dual screen malarky, revolutionary? A brilliant change to the way games are played by the industry?
Well, guess what, I don't agree, and I'm going to be called a Sony fanboy, or at very best, an anti-Nintendo zealot for it ;)
Anyway, here's my gripe, there's nothing revolutionrary about the DS what-so-ever. People are talking as though they have never seen dual screen hardware in gamers lifetime, well, I hate to dissapoint you all, but the dual screen handheld format was tried, tested and loved by us golden oldies a little short of 20 years ago.
[URL]http://www.infa.abo.fi/~buck/misc/gizmos/pix/nintendo.game+watch.mickey+donald.open.jpg[/URL]
This picture shows a NINTENDO Game And Watch handheld single game device from almost TWENTY years ago.
[URL]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/12/nintendo_ds_comms/[/URL]
This image shows an almost identical looking handheld game platform, released by the very same company, but claim this dual screen arhitecture to be new, revolutionary, and well, good.
I'm not saying there may be some niche elements available to gamers, but I feel that most games developers will not use the additional screen for anything useful. Football games will have a top down radar, metroid will have a map, mario kart will have the track and player positions, basically world information about locations and the layout of the world will be used on this screen.
There is a good reason for this too, people can only concentrate their vision to a single focal point at a time. No one can concentrate on both of those screens at the same time, so one screen will be used for gameplay, and the other for displaying information.
This is a good thing given the paltry size of the DS screen, it means the game screen can be uncluttered with HUDs and the like but concentrate solely on letting the player play the game.
I will be truely amazed if anyone on this forum can come up with an original gameplay dynamic which could actively use the two screens of the DS in a way that could not be done on a single screen.
I'm even thinking of having, say, a heat sensor camera on the top screen, and a normal view on the bottom. This would be done MORE effectively on a single screen as a current day frame rate is at a higher reresh rate then the ability of a person to change their point of focus from one screen to the other. Sinply hitting a button to change views whilst focusing on a single point is a more natural way of playing a game.
So, I suppose I have set myself up for a fight by challenging the might of Ninetndo, again, but surely there are more innovative things happening in the world of gaming than a twenty year old handheld design being rereleased to a massive fanfare with no clear cut example of how this creates a revolution.
Nintendo should be commended for spinning up some dust to hide Sony's far nore impressive PSP handheld entertainment device.
The PSP is much more of a students system, good games, good movies, good sounds, wireless and one decent big widescreen which will let people who commute, or like to enjoy the comforts of their bedroom in some glorious sunshine.
The DS is not a gaming revolution, it's a bit like 90s pop music, a remix of something old people liked twenty years ago, just with more colours and more marketing hype. Take the DS with a pinch of salt, it's not worth the hype.
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If the people here aren't starry eyed nintendo freaks, then why does nobody show the same optimism for the PSP as they do for the DS...?
Answer that as straightforward as you can, always keeping in mind the thing you said about not shunning a system you've barely seen and never played.
Answer that as straightforward as you can, always keeping in mind the thing you said about not shunning a system you've barely seen and never played.
Do you even understand what faith is? The whole concept of faith is that it is blind.
And would you care to explain what's so amusing about what I said?
And would you care to explain what's so amusing about what I said?
gerrid wrote:
> Except that some people have a little faith in developers
Blind faith
> People here aren't starry eyed Nintendo freaks, they're just
> optimistic. What's the point of shunning a system that you've never
> played, and hardly even seen?
AAAAAAAha hahahahaa!!!!
Mind if I quote that in future?
> Except that some people have a little faith in developers
Blind faith
> People here aren't starry eyed Nintendo freaks, they're just
> optimistic. What's the point of shunning a system that you've never
> played, and hardly even seen?
AAAAAAAha hahahahaa!!!!
Mind if I quote that in future?
Bonus wrote:
> I made some arrogent, contentious comments based on what I've read
> about limited system demos,
Right -
> and got it in the neck from diddy ninties
Go on, don't be afraid, say who you're talking about.
> who don't have any more of a clue about how the system could be used
> than I do.
Except that some people have a little faith in developers who have given us so many great games over the years, and actually have the ability to see some potential in new things, rather than assuming that, because you haven't seen anything innovative, there won't be anything innovative.
People here aren't starry eyed Nintendo freaks, they're just optimistic. What's the point of shunning a system that you've never played, and hardly even seen? Is there a point? No. Discussion is fine, but negative opinions disguised as facts, on a system which could go either way, is not 'discussion'. It's just trolling. Your pessimism about the DS could so easily just be turned into criticism about the PSP, of the PS3, of any new console.
Why shun one and not the other? Tell me that.
> I made some arrogent, contentious comments based on what I've read
> about limited system demos,
Right -
> and got it in the neck from diddy ninties
Go on, don't be afraid, say who you're talking about.
> who don't have any more of a clue about how the system could be used
> than I do.
Except that some people have a little faith in developers who have given us so many great games over the years, and actually have the ability to see some potential in new things, rather than assuming that, because you haven't seen anything innovative, there won't be anything innovative.
People here aren't starry eyed Nintendo freaks, they're just optimistic. What's the point of shunning a system that you've never played, and hardly even seen? Is there a point? No. Discussion is fine, but negative opinions disguised as facts, on a system which could go either way, is not 'discussion'. It's just trolling. Your pessimism about the DS could so easily just be turned into criticism about the PSP, of the PS3, of any new console.
Why shun one and not the other? Tell me that.
Bonus wrote:
> They're still willing to proclaim that it's the best thing since
> sliced bread though.
In retrospect, sliced bread wasn't that great an invention.
> They're still willing to proclaim that it's the best thing since
> sliced bread though.
In retrospect, sliced bread wasn't that great an invention.
I think a lot of people already knew Nintendo had already released "similar" dual-screen gaming devices many, many years ago. But, was it not only one game for each machine?
With the DS, it is still quite different.
Yes, you could say the "basics" (ie. it's appearence and design) remain more-or-less the same to what it was yonks ago, but, for starters, this will be retailed in a completely different market, in an all-new stage in time - of course, it has to be different!
It's a lot more like a modern-day home console too (or, a GameBoy, anyway...). It can do all the things a today's hand-helds can, and then some ontop of it. It works a lot more like a console. It runs the kind of games we all enjoyed on our N64s.
It may not be the innovation you seem to be confused it is simply being made out to be, but, for all the original idea has and is going to become, it certainly is a `Revolution´ in today's market. :)
With the DS, it is still quite different.
Yes, you could say the "basics" (ie. it's appearence and design) remain more-or-less the same to what it was yonks ago, but, for starters, this will be retailed in a completely different market, in an all-new stage in time - of course, it has to be different!
It's a lot more like a modern-day home console too (or, a GameBoy, anyway...). It can do all the things a today's hand-helds can, and then some ontop of it. It works a lot more like a console. It runs the kind of games we all enjoyed on our N64s.
It may not be the innovation you seem to be confused it is simply being made out to be, but, for all the original idea has and is going to become, it certainly is a `Revolution´ in today's market. :)
I know it's not up to full capabilities yet :D
The system which is at e3 wont even be the same as the system which finally gets released, that was something Nintendo were quick to point out at e3.
The Game and Watch comparison was simply to show that the dual screen design wasn't anything new. Obviously it is not anything like a GAW, it's 20 years newer, has 3D graphics, and all the other features which I keep getting thrown in my face.
I'm just trying to get a discussion started about the system, and get away from simply saying Nintendo make it, so it's good, and getting everyone round to agree.
I made some arrogent, contentious comments based on what I've read about limited system demos, and got it in the neck from diddy ninties who don't have any more of a clue about how the system could be used than I do.
They're still willing to proclaim that it's the best thing since sliced bread though.
The system which is at e3 wont even be the same as the system which finally gets released, that was something Nintendo were quick to point out at e3.
The Game and Watch comparison was simply to show that the dual screen design wasn't anything new. Obviously it is not anything like a GAW, it's 20 years newer, has 3D graphics, and all the other features which I keep getting thrown in my face.
I'm just trying to get a discussion started about the system, and get away from simply saying Nintendo make it, so it's good, and getting everyone round to agree.
I made some arrogent, contentious comments based on what I've read about limited system demos, and got it in the neck from diddy ninties who don't have any more of a clue about how the system could be used than I do.
They're still willing to proclaim that it's the best thing since sliced bread though.
It may look similar to the Game & Watch, but surely the fact that it is a multi-game system immediately destroys any other similarities.
Sure, maybe Nintendo haven't shown the DS to it's full potential yet. Why should they? They've impressed enough people for now, the next step is competition. They'll need some ammo to fight competition further into the DS' future.
Sure, maybe Nintendo haven't shown the DS to it's full potential yet. Why should they? They've impressed enough people for now, the next step is competition. They'll need some ammo to fight competition further into the DS' future.
AfroJoe wrote:
> You are not at E3, you do not work for any of the companies
> developing DS titles, you have not got any Nintendo information on
> exactly how they're going to use innovation in titles, yet you seem
> to believe that you know how the DS is going to work and that it
> won't be innovative.
No, all I'm saying is that so far I haven't seen anythinginnovative.
Go to gameboy.ign.com where they have tested all of the demos which will be on offer at E3. Read them, then tell me what sounds inovative from that list.
I'll stand by my statement that the DS is a Game and Watch with better graphics.
As for the lack of analogue stick, the touch screen ca easily be used to simulate an analogue controler, I'd be able to program an analogue control system using it, the same way a mouse, or an actual analogue stick works.
> You are not at E3, you do not work for any of the companies
> developing DS titles, you have not got any Nintendo information on
> exactly how they're going to use innovation in titles, yet you seem
> to believe that you know how the DS is going to work and that it
> won't be innovative.
No, all I'm saying is that so far I haven't seen anythinginnovative.
Go to gameboy.ign.com where they have tested all of the demos which will be on offer at E3. Read them, then tell me what sounds inovative from that list.
I'll stand by my statement that the DS is a Game and Watch with better graphics.
As for the lack of analogue stick, the touch screen ca easily be used to simulate an analogue controler, I'd be able to program an analogue control system using it, the same way a mouse, or an actual analogue stick works.
Notorious Biggles wrote:
> Let's take voice recognition. It was pretty decent in RS3, but that
> was because it only really had a small number of commands and some
> rudimentary algorithms to match sound input patters to the commands.
> It will take a lot more work to make it happen on a handheld. Reason
> for that is it needs to be a more powerful mic than the one in the
> Xbox Live headset, and more powerful and further away equals lots
> more background noise to remove.
If we want to get technical the ARM 9 processor which will handle the voice regognition in the DS has sound codecs supported in hardware, the challenge will be or developers to localise there to accents.
I'm glad this thread has taken off, it seems to be the only thread in this whole forum where things are actually being discussed, scrutinised and ripped apart at deatil, well done guys, another good day of stirring trouble from me.
It's still good to see that Strafio is the ONLY person on this forum who doesn't take what I say at face value and actually sees the point in my topics.
I couldn't give a damn either way about whether or not the DS will be successful. If it is used to it's potential then it deserves to be successful, regardless of manufacturer, I just want to be able to discuss the merits of the games and their innovative use of the hardware, without being told that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
> Let's take voice recognition. It was pretty decent in RS3, but that
> was because it only really had a small number of commands and some
> rudimentary algorithms to match sound input patters to the commands.
> It will take a lot more work to make it happen on a handheld. Reason
> for that is it needs to be a more powerful mic than the one in the
> Xbox Live headset, and more powerful and further away equals lots
> more background noise to remove.
If we want to get technical the ARM 9 processor which will handle the voice regognition in the DS has sound codecs supported in hardware, the challenge will be or developers to localise there to accents.
I'm glad this thread has taken off, it seems to be the only thread in this whole forum where things are actually being discussed, scrutinised and ripped apart at deatil, well done guys, another good day of stirring trouble from me.
It's still good to see that Strafio is the ONLY person on this forum who doesn't take what I say at face value and actually sees the point in my topics.
I couldn't give a damn either way about whether or not the DS will be successful. If it is used to it's potential then it deserves to be successful, regardless of manufacturer, I just want to be able to discuss the merits of the games and their innovative use of the hardware, without being told that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
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