Viewing Thread:
"Cartridges & Optical discs vs. CDs and DVDs"

The point of this topic is to discuss Nintendo’s obsession with loading times and whether it is justified.

As we all know, Nintendo decided to opt for loading times over cost and storage on the N64. This is the only reason I can see for having large, bulky, expensive cartridges with limited capacity. As everyone all knows this was also one of the main reason why the N64 lost to the PlayStation.

So, was this justified? Well, personally I think not, but a lot of people argue. One of the main and sometimes only points my Ninty friends say about the PSone is they hate the loading times. It spoils the game and they prefer the N64 with no loading times. In my opinion this is just desperately seeking an argument, but maybe they have a point. I must say one of the best things I enjoyed about owning an N64 (yes, I had one and yes, I enjoyed it). The thing was, some of the loading times on the PSone were virtually unnoticeable. For example, I was amazed at the loading of GT and GT2 considering what huge games they are. Similarly, the loading of GT3 is virtually non-existent. On the other hand, some of the loading times on the two Sony consoles are atrocious: Driver, TimeSplitters and Quake 3 anyone? Now, I admit this does spoil the game a little bit but does it really warrant the drastic action of keeping cartridges? After all, this is what caused the rift between Square and Nintendo.

The truth is, loading times are a fact of life, and Nintendo are just going to have to live with it.

Now, despite the disaster with Square, Nintendo still haven’t learnt their lesson and have gone and done it again, but this time is goodbye GamePaks and hello Optical Discs. Now, the problem is slightly rectified with the larger storage but they’re still a third of the PS2’s 4.3gb at 1.5gb. At least this is better than the original 4% of the PSone’s CDs. Yes, that’s a twenty-fifth.

I’ve been trying to research the GC’s optical discs, and the information’s surprisingly sparse, so here’s what I’ve found out: The discs are basically DVDs with a few modifications, so there’s no change there. The difference is they are only 8cm in diameter, which means not only are they smaller they are cheaper. Personally I don’t see the point but there you go. Apparently this is supposed to decrease loading times because the laser has less distance to travel but PS2 developers could just use 8cm of the DVD instead. The discs will come in standard DVD cases which also means you can fit two in one box, but I still fail to see the point. One more thing about the Optical discs: For the first time ever Nintendo will be able to provide decent sound and FMV onto a game. This was previously impossible because of the limited capacity.

Now, these brand spanking new optical discs may have very quick loading but I don’t see anything special about them. As far as I am aware all DVDs are dead quick to load. Both Dead or Alive 2 and the OPS2 DVD cover discs are insanely quick, even the demos. I think that this is because there is a higher transfer speed on DVDs because the tracks are closer together and a DVD laser can read much quicker. Slow loading times on the PS2 CDs are also to become a thing of the past when developers start efficiently using the PS2’s resources and 48x CD-ROM drive.

OK, to sum up: The optical discs are smaller, both in size and capacity, cheaper and faster to load (allegedly). DVDs are much larger, both in size and capacity, a little more expensive and just as quick to load (probably). So what has Nintendo gained from these discs? As far as I can see, nothing. They are cheaper but you need more. They are quicker to load but that needs proving and personally I doubt it. They look nicer – wow. That’s not strictly true though. These discs are impossible to copy, so all you would-be pirates out there will have to find someone else to target.

But that’s what they said about GD-ROMs, isn’t it?

SonicRav wrote:
> shaneo wrote:
> No game on n64 ever has had 2 carts because they
> are too expensive
> to make.

there is of course the
> "link" between Banjo Tooie and Kazooie... but that would
> have cost you £110 to get both!

Sonic

Ninetndo games are 2 expensive!

Ok... having just read the whole thread, here are my views:

DVDs will cerainly NOT reduce game costs. Think about it... FF7 is on 4 CDs, but costs just as much as a game on 1 CD... the CD price is negligable anyway.

As for loading times... Soul Reaver on the PSX and DOA2 on the DC have NO inner-game loading times. The fact is that if you program a game well, you can manage these results. How exactly they pull this off is beyond me... but it is possible.

Now, Carts. Ninty chose carts on the N64 for numerous reasons... not just loading. Of course at the time Ninty could not believe that gamers would watch a blank loading screen, and thought that sony's idea was stupid. More importantly, if games are made on carts then only Ninty can print them... making a HUGE profit for them! Finally, there is piracy... but when the PSX/N64 were first designed this was not an issue.

Finally, a technical point. People seem to think that some N64 carts were 256 MB. This is completely wrong! N64 cart sizes are measured in Mega Bits (not Bytes)... a bit being an eighth of a byte. The reason is simply to make games seem bigger than they are... after all, FF7 was *about* 3000MB... what would gamers think if it was clear that Zelda was only 32 MB!!!!!! Ok, so lots of FF7 space is FMV movies... which are HUGE in terms of size, but it still don't look great for them!


Sonic

shaneo wrote:
> No game on n64 ever has had 2 carts because they are too expensive
> to make.

there is of course the "link" between Banjo Tooie and Kazooie... but that would have cost you £110 to get both!

Sonic

No game on n64 ever has had 2 carts because they are too expensive to make.

They won't be for the same storage.

But yes, for the moment that's true I suppose, although we're yet to see some official prices.

Yes but Sony can no longer throw we are cheaper in our faces any more.

I told you that.

And:

Quieter: With 400watt speakers I couldn't give a damn.

i've seen a few at that price and GT£ r.r.p 39.99

There is not a single game for £45. GT3 is £35, and that's a DVD.

GC games = £35 PS2 games = £45

Smaller do we have to go through this again it is nice ok

Quiter = would be nice