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Okay... probably not the most popular opinion on the site...
But, look at it this way...
Starting in the seventies, and early-late eighties, Atari, Coleco, Intellivision, et al. pretty much owned the console market... with a large array of different PC's (Speccy, C64, Dragon, Amstrad, etc....) owning the gaming computers market share...
Games although initially very basic, they advanced at quite a startling rate (with little to no expansion on the initial systems hardware spec... The C64 was the same system I the late eighties that it was in the early... even if it did have a different case)... and were often remarkably complex...
However the important thing was that games were on the whole unique... Although many didn’t ideas really work... and there were many clones (three were/are more Pac Man clones around than should be feasibly possible)... There were two original gaming styles for every clone written...
Equally... Games weren’t just unique in that gaming genres... platformers, shootemups, etc were not around or were still developing... which in some ways is true... but in others... (There were an enormous number of scrolling platform games written before '85... With just as many vertical, and side scrolling shootemups... and more than enough 3D games (though lacking a little in image mapping)
As much as developing new games and gaming styles, people were trying new ideas out all the time, different ways of doing the same thing, new slants on old ideas...
Although, with the release of the NES and Master Systems in the US and Europe things started to change, games stopped trying out so many new ideas... with side scrolling platformers, Golden Axe style beatem-ups, side scrolling shootemups, etc.. Filling a larger percentage of the release charts. New ideas we replaced with games that guaranteed cash... developed within a limited number of gaming genres...
Even killing off a number of then exceptionally popular genres (Arcade Adventures anyone?)
Now, this could have been because of the larger market base, games having more money used, spent on advertising, TV spots, etc..
However, the earlier systems (Atari, Coleco, Intellivision, etc...) had used the same marketing techniques, and kept a wider range of gaming styles...
And more importantly, the latest crop of computer systems (STs, Amiga, the newly VGA'ed PCs) which were going strong during the times of the NES, Master System, MegaDrive, SNES, etc... Were still mass-producing new gameplay styles, elements, and attempts... A place where new ideas and concepts were still being created...
This was all before the release of Sony’s system... which in one sense means that the large number of people and costs in development of a computer games hadn’t really arrived yet... groups of 3-4 people were enough to write a hit title... often still one coder did the whole job...
Equally, it pretty much killed the chances of, in these high profile, high cost, title times, that new ideas are rarely tried and even more rarely accepted...
It was, it would appear Nintendo and SEGAS responsibility that new games ideas, and original concepts are much more scarce in today’s systems... (and not Sonys after all)... That original ideas are put over in 'novelty' releases, rather than in the attempt to create new gaming genres, new styles, in computer entertainment development...
Not to worry though huh? :)
But, look at it this way...
Starting in the seventies, and early-late eighties, Atari, Coleco, Intellivision, et al. pretty much owned the console market... with a large array of different PC's (Speccy, C64, Dragon, Amstrad, etc....) owning the gaming computers market share...
Games although initially very basic, they advanced at quite a startling rate (with little to no expansion on the initial systems hardware spec... The C64 was the same system I the late eighties that it was in the early... even if it did have a different case)... and were often remarkably complex...
However the important thing was that games were on the whole unique... Although many didn’t ideas really work... and there were many clones (three were/are more Pac Man clones around than should be feasibly possible)... There were two original gaming styles for every clone written...
Equally... Games weren’t just unique in that gaming genres... platformers, shootemups, etc were not around or were still developing... which in some ways is true... but in others... (There were an enormous number of scrolling platform games written before '85... With just as many vertical, and side scrolling shootemups... and more than enough 3D games (though lacking a little in image mapping)
As much as developing new games and gaming styles, people were trying new ideas out all the time, different ways of doing the same thing, new slants on old ideas...
Although, with the release of the NES and Master Systems in the US and Europe things started to change, games stopped trying out so many new ideas... with side scrolling platformers, Golden Axe style beatem-ups, side scrolling shootemups, etc.. Filling a larger percentage of the release charts. New ideas we replaced with games that guaranteed cash... developed within a limited number of gaming genres...
Even killing off a number of then exceptionally popular genres (Arcade Adventures anyone?)
Now, this could have been because of the larger market base, games having more money used, spent on advertising, TV spots, etc..
However, the earlier systems (Atari, Coleco, Intellivision, etc...) had used the same marketing techniques, and kept a wider range of gaming styles...
And more importantly, the latest crop of computer systems (STs, Amiga, the newly VGA'ed PCs) which were going strong during the times of the NES, Master System, MegaDrive, SNES, etc... Were still mass-producing new gameplay styles, elements, and attempts... A place where new ideas and concepts were still being created...
This was all before the release of Sony’s system... which in one sense means that the large number of people and costs in development of a computer games hadn’t really arrived yet... groups of 3-4 people were enough to write a hit title... often still one coder did the whole job...
Equally, it pretty much killed the chances of, in these high profile, high cost, title times, that new ideas are rarely tried and even more rarely accepted...
It was, it would appear Nintendo and SEGAS responsibility that new games ideas, and original concepts are much more scarce in today’s systems... (and not Sonys after all)... That original ideas are put over in 'novelty' releases, rather than in the attempt to create new gaming genres, new styles, in computer entertainment development...
Not to worry though huh? :)
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Or maybe new storylines can be downloaded as they appear in those WWF programs that I never watch. And at the same time, new wrestlers with updated moves and music too. And in return, THQ (or whoever is holding the WWF license in the future) can charge, say £5 a go for each update.
Rock steps into the ring. The crowd roars. Jericho also steps into the ring. Their eyes meet across the crowded canvas, a hundred violins strike up a heartlifting melody as the two wrestlers reach out to each other and....
Nah, maybe not...
Nah, maybe not...
I'll never buy another WWF game again, unless it offers custom storylines. I don't know how they'll be implemented, but with the power of the NG consoles, it's possible.
Yep, and the storyline sucks too.
Your Honour wrote:
>At the moment i'm
> enjoying playing the games i have, and thats all that matters to
> me.
At the moment, I'm kinda bored of the games I'm playing. Maybe I should take a break off WWF No Mercy, because there's not really much depth to the game.
>At the moment i'm
> enjoying playing the games i have, and thats all that matters to
> me.
At the moment, I'm kinda bored of the games I'm playing. Maybe I should take a break off WWF No Mercy, because there's not really much depth to the game.
I mentioned a something like this in my 'Rose tinted specs' post.
What i basically said was: Of course originality seems to have gone out of the window. All new ideas for genres have been done. Now we are left with games that just push the boundaries of existing genres, B&W, M:SR etc, and games that merge 2 genres, Deus Ex.
We will not see a whole new genre appear until the 'next big thing' comes along, be it VR or whatever.
At the moment i'm enjoying playing the games i have, and thats all that matters to me.
What i basically said was: Of course originality seems to have gone out of the window. All new ideas for genres have been done. Now we are left with games that just push the boundaries of existing genres, B&W, M:SR etc, and games that merge 2 genres, Deus Ex.
We will not see a whole new genre appear until the 'next big thing' comes along, be it VR or whatever.
At the moment i'm enjoying playing the games i have, and thats all that matters to me.
When I got a Sega Master System, I wanted it to play all of the games I had played in the arcades. I enjoyed the likes of Wonderboy, Space Harrier, Out Run, Rastan Saga, Fantasy Zone, Shinobi as well as the titles that were not like the games in the arcades like Phantasy Star and Alex Kidd. Whether these were original or not I don't really know. I suppose there were plenty of other similar games out there, but as I was only around 9 or 10 at the time, I wasn't really bothered by such things.
All of the games I had were quite different to each other, with the Wonderboy series re-inventing itself over it's three games, each remaining special.
It saw only when I got a Megadrive that I found that there was a whole lot of platformers available, and not much else!
I had New Zealand Story, Rainbow Islands, Altered Beast Magical Flying Hat Turbo Adventure, Ghouls and Ghosts, Ghostbusters, Strider, Sonic.... all platformers. The same variety of title was not available in the early days of the Magadrive. There were some different games, such as Herzog Zwei, and Phantasy Star 3 in my collection, but all in all there was a lack of variety. But again, I wasn't overly bothered at the time, it was what I liked, and I never grew tired of them. Looking back, yes they lacked inspiration, but I enjoyed them!
Today I seem to ask more from the games I play, but in all honesty, as long as it's an improvement over what came before it, I enjoy it. I enjoy the Zelda series, as I feel that each game has brought in a new element that keeps the games fun. For instance Ocarina of Time involved using the Ocarina extensively, this had been introduced in Links Awakening, but not used much. It became an important part of gameplay in OOT. OOT also introduced the masks that went on to be a vital part of Majoras Mask.
Yes they're still adventure games, but I feel that they offer something new, and keep the genre fresh and exciting. As long as the games I'm playing are improving, giving me satisfying playing experiences, and are enjoyable, then I'm not going to complain too much! I think that there are original titles out there, but also a lot of new innovations in the styles we know and love. This is the only way that games are going to change, slowly, because there's too much money involved today to try to be wholly original.
All of the games I had were quite different to each other, with the Wonderboy series re-inventing itself over it's three games, each remaining special.
It saw only when I got a Megadrive that I found that there was a whole lot of platformers available, and not much else!
I had New Zealand Story, Rainbow Islands, Altered Beast Magical Flying Hat Turbo Adventure, Ghouls and Ghosts, Ghostbusters, Strider, Sonic.... all platformers. The same variety of title was not available in the early days of the Magadrive. There were some different games, such as Herzog Zwei, and Phantasy Star 3 in my collection, but all in all there was a lack of variety. But again, I wasn't overly bothered at the time, it was what I liked, and I never grew tired of them. Looking back, yes they lacked inspiration, but I enjoyed them!
Today I seem to ask more from the games I play, but in all honesty, as long as it's an improvement over what came before it, I enjoy it. I enjoy the Zelda series, as I feel that each game has brought in a new element that keeps the games fun. For instance Ocarina of Time involved using the Ocarina extensively, this had been introduced in Links Awakening, but not used much. It became an important part of gameplay in OOT. OOT also introduced the masks that went on to be a vital part of Majoras Mask.
Yes they're still adventure games, but I feel that they offer something new, and keep the genre fresh and exciting. As long as the games I'm playing are improving, giving me satisfying playing experiences, and are enjoyable, then I'm not going to complain too much! I think that there are original titles out there, but also a lot of new innovations in the styles we know and love. This is the only way that games are going to change, slowly, because there's too much money involved today to try to be wholly original.
Meka_Dragon wrote:
> Though I'm not sure that you can blame Sega and Nintendo entirely
> for the quality of games that other developers chose to release on
> their systems.
Even including Nintendos infamous 'seal of quality' which they used to claim prooved the quality of the released title?
Whilst the likes of LJN were turning every license
> they could get hold of into a dodgy platformer, Nintendo were not.
> Super Mario 3 was widely considered to be the best game ever when
> released on the NES. It added so many new features to the stale
> platformer,
I'm not saying the Nintendo and Sega dont produce top notch games... just that they didnt create that many titles that were new or original (at least nothing that hit western shores)...
I always understood SM3 to be considered great becuse of its level design, size and multiplayer experince... I'm not saying that Nentendo and Sega never created anything new... just that there was a dramatic, and markable drop in innovative and new concept titles released once the NES had been released..
And that since the less popular systems, such as the Amiga and ST still managed to create new and innovative playing styles, that are still hearlded as fantasic playing today, shows the limitations employed on the consoles
SMB3 was a new standard in platform games... but it was just a platform title...
that it was quite unbelievable. Rather than just running
> along the ground avoiding enemies you could also fly, and find
> things on higher levels. The game also incorporated the use of items
> that you could use before each level to give you a bit of a hand.
These featre had all been seen before... games from the early eighties allowed players to morph from a wizard into an Eagle to reach higher platforms and greater levels... As well as 'comparitivly' (to SMB3) complex enviroment interation.. including puzzle solving techniques...
Sega
> too were doing good things. Phantasy Star showed us a new age in
> console RPG's and it is still a wonderful experience to play this
> game today.
But it was of a gametype already well known... they added a few nice touches to the genere... but by being the first to create an MMORPG for a console doesnt make thenm innovative... since it was an innevitable release... Given Sonys MMOLRPG PC software I'm more surprised it didnt happen first on the PS/PS2
On the Megadrive they continued to devlop the series,
> incorporating improvements in each game. Part 2 was all together
> more shiny, being on a superior platform, and the battle system was
> enhanced, also the abitily to change party members was included.
It was nothing the Ultima series of games (which were popular enough in Japan to warrent their own cartoon series) wasnt already doing since 1981...
Flashy graphics come with newer hardware specs...
> Though I'm not sure that you can blame Sega and Nintendo entirely
> for the quality of games that other developers chose to release on
> their systems.
Even including Nintendos infamous 'seal of quality' which they used to claim prooved the quality of the released title?
Whilst the likes of LJN were turning every license
> they could get hold of into a dodgy platformer, Nintendo were not.
> Super Mario 3 was widely considered to be the best game ever when
> released on the NES. It added so many new features to the stale
> platformer,
I'm not saying the Nintendo and Sega dont produce top notch games... just that they didnt create that many titles that were new or original (at least nothing that hit western shores)...
I always understood SM3 to be considered great becuse of its level design, size and multiplayer experince... I'm not saying that Nentendo and Sega never created anything new... just that there was a dramatic, and markable drop in innovative and new concept titles released once the NES had been released..
And that since the less popular systems, such as the Amiga and ST still managed to create new and innovative playing styles, that are still hearlded as fantasic playing today, shows the limitations employed on the consoles
SMB3 was a new standard in platform games... but it was just a platform title...
that it was quite unbelievable. Rather than just running
> along the ground avoiding enemies you could also fly, and find
> things on higher levels. The game also incorporated the use of items
> that you could use before each level to give you a bit of a hand.
These featre had all been seen before... games from the early eighties allowed players to morph from a wizard into an Eagle to reach higher platforms and greater levels... As well as 'comparitivly' (to SMB3) complex enviroment interation.. including puzzle solving techniques...
Sega
> too were doing good things. Phantasy Star showed us a new age in
> console RPG's and it is still a wonderful experience to play this
> game today.
But it was of a gametype already well known... they added a few nice touches to the genere... but by being the first to create an MMORPG for a console doesnt make thenm innovative... since it was an innevitable release... Given Sonys MMOLRPG PC software I'm more surprised it didnt happen first on the PS/PS2
On the Megadrive they continued to devlop the series,
> incorporating improvements in each game. Part 2 was all together
> more shiny, being on a superior platform, and the battle system was
> enhanced, also the abitily to change party members was included.
It was nothing the Ultima series of games (which were popular enough in Japan to warrent their own cartoon series) wasnt already doing since 1981...
Flashy graphics come with newer hardware specs...
Though I'm not sure that you can blame Sega and Nintendo entirely for the quality of games that other developers chose to release on their systems.
Whilst the likes of LJN were turning every license they could get hold of into a dodgy platformer, Nintendo were not. Super Mario 3 was widely considered to be the best game ever when released on the NES. It added so many new features to the stale platformer, that it was quite unbelievable. Rather than just running along the ground avoiding enemies you could also fly, and find things on higher levels. The game also incorporated the use of items that you could use before each level to give you a bit of a hand. It really tried to incorporate exploration of each level, so much different to the likes of other platformers on the market.
Sega too were doing good things. Phantasy Star showed us a new age in console RPG's and it is still a wonderful experience to play this game today. On the Megadrive they continued to devlop the series, incorporating improvements in each game. Part 2 was all together more shiny, being on a superior platform, and the battle system was enhanced, also the abitily to change party members was included. PS3 took it to a completely new level, with 4 different endings being available, based upon the choices that you made in each generation - you decided who to marry, then the quest would continue with your kids taking over years later. PS4 took in on a further level, expanding upon all areas from part 2. Sega again moved this franchise on when released on the Dreamcast as PS Online.
During the days of the SNES Nintendo again developed some original titles that hadn't been seen on consoles before, such as Pilotwings. Their main focus remained with platformers, but SuperMarioWorld took everything that made SMB3 great, and expanded upon it, adding further innovations to the genre. Super Metroid too was a marked impovement over it's NES counterpart, adding all sorts of features. StarFox showed technology not thought possible on the SNES, so again was original to the console arena.
My personal thought is that Sega and Nintendo are innovators, bringing amazing gaming experiences to millions worldwide. Other developers too bring new things to gaming, like Konami, Square and Capcom. It's just a shame that there are so many developers out there just releasing the same old tosh. Clone after clone. But innovations not too hard to find, you just need to know where to look.
Whilst the likes of LJN were turning every license they could get hold of into a dodgy platformer, Nintendo were not. Super Mario 3 was widely considered to be the best game ever when released on the NES. It added so many new features to the stale platformer, that it was quite unbelievable. Rather than just running along the ground avoiding enemies you could also fly, and find things on higher levels. The game also incorporated the use of items that you could use before each level to give you a bit of a hand. It really tried to incorporate exploration of each level, so much different to the likes of other platformers on the market.
Sega too were doing good things. Phantasy Star showed us a new age in console RPG's and it is still a wonderful experience to play this game today. On the Megadrive they continued to devlop the series, incorporating improvements in each game. Part 2 was all together more shiny, being on a superior platform, and the battle system was enhanced, also the abitily to change party members was included. PS3 took it to a completely new level, with 4 different endings being available, based upon the choices that you made in each generation - you decided who to marry, then the quest would continue with your kids taking over years later. PS4 took in on a further level, expanding upon all areas from part 2. Sega again moved this franchise on when released on the Dreamcast as PS Online.
During the days of the SNES Nintendo again developed some original titles that hadn't been seen on consoles before, such as Pilotwings. Their main focus remained with platformers, but SuperMarioWorld took everything that made SMB3 great, and expanded upon it, adding further innovations to the genre. Super Metroid too was a marked impovement over it's NES counterpart, adding all sorts of features. StarFox showed technology not thought possible on the SNES, so again was original to the console arena.
My personal thought is that Sega and Nintendo are innovators, bringing amazing gaming experiences to millions worldwide. Other developers too bring new things to gaming, like Konami, Square and Capcom. It's just a shame that there are so many developers out there just releasing the same old tosh. Clone after clone. But innovations not too hard to find, you just need to know where to look.
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